Thread: Google friend or foe?

GOOGLE: If You Use Gmail, You Have 'No Legitimate Expectation Of Privacy'

If You Use Gmail, You Should Have 'No Legitimate Expectation Of Privacy' - Business Insider




If you happen to be one of the 400 million people who use Google's Gmail service for sending and receiving emails, you shouldn't have any expectation of privacy, according to a court briefing obtained by the Consumer Watchdog website.

In a motion filed last month by Google to have a class action complaint dismissed, Google's lawyers reference a 1979 ruling, holding that people who turn over information to third parties shouldn't expect that information to remain private.

From the filing:
Just as a sender of a letter to a business colleague cannot be surprised that the recipient’s assistant opens the letter, people who use web-based email today cannot be surprised if their communications are processed by the recipient’s ECS provider in the course of delivery. Indeed, “a person has no legitimate expectation of privacy in information he voluntarily turns over to third parties.” Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735, 743-44 (1979). In particular, the Court noted that persons communicating through a service provided by an intermediary (in the Smith case, a telephone call routed through a telephone company) must necessarily expect that the communication will be subject to the intermediary’s systems. For example, the Court explained that in using the telephone, a person “voluntarily convey[s] numerical information to the telephone company and ‘expose[s]’ that information to its equipment in the ordinary course of business.” Id. at 744 (emphasis added).

The lengthy brief goes on to maintain that Google uses automated processes to sift through email for the purposes of providing spam filters, relevant advertising, and other features of the Gmail service. The opposition complaint however, takes issue with this, saying the company is instead trying "to capture the [email] authors' actual thoughts for Google's secret use."
“Google has finally admitted they don’t respect privacy,” said John M. Simpson, Consumer Watchdog’s Privacy Project director, in a news release. “People should take them at their word; if you care about your email correspondents’ privacy don’t use Gmail.”

Google argues the terms of service and privacy policy of Gmail lays out their automated processes of scanning email — and by agreeing to use the service, users are bound to those terms.

It's interesting to note that a concurring Supreme Court opinion in 2012 had Justice Sonia Sotomayer citing the same case as Google (Smith v. Maryland) — but argued instead that business transactions over the phone or internet are not automatically disentitled to Fourth Amendment protection.

The company's reasoning shouldn't come as a huge shock. Google Executive Chairman Eric Schmidt told a CNBC interviewer in 2009 the company is bound to the federal terms of the U.S. PATRIOT Act.

"If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place," Schmidt said. "But if you really need that kind of privacy, the reality is that search engines, including Google, do retain this information for some time. And ... we're all subject, in the United States, to the Patriot Act, and it is possible that that information could be made available to the authorities."

Here's the full brief:
Google Motion 061313



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I used to think Google was some sort of underdog in the beginning and Microsoft was the evil empire but these days I tend to think Google is a monster as well. It's business I guess. Still, I'd rather support an underdog or the rebels if possible.

I'm dumping the google search to try this one out.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...o-for-firefox/

Any suggestions for a good trustworthy (for the moment at least) email without a giant corporation behind it?

I never use Gmail or any other public email facility for business and whenever I see companies using Hotmail or similar I just cannot take them seriously.

You need to be using your own server.

Originally Posted by Thormaturge

I never use Gmail or any other public email facility for business and whenever I see companies using Hotmail or similar I just cannot take them seriously.

You need to be using your own server.

Precisely.

Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

It makes me laugh when people say "If you have nothing to hide, then what's the problem?" Would these people be happy with an actual human body in their living room or workplace watching every move they make? The problem is people have become so disconnected from reality we don't actually know what it means anymore!

Would they be happy seeing every letter and package opened prior to delivery at their homes? Maybe it happens to some people but it's not in the news. The reporters should also put Fedex and UPS on the spot or the government on the spot for not opening the packages containing 'mail' they deliver.

The government accesses phones and internet traffic because it's easy and unnoticeable I would guess. What hypocrites, what cowards. They know the uproar they could cause in some areas. They abuse when they can.

Originally Posted by Thormaturge

I never use Gmail or any other public email facility for business and whenever I see companies using Hotmail or similar I just cannot take them seriously.

You need to be using your own server.

I agree, but Gmail is so much more convenient when you have many business/websites...

Isn't handing your mail to the postal service handing it to a third party?
Does this open the door to the postal service being able to open and read your mail if the want to.

Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

It makes me laugh when people say "If you have nothing to hide, then what's the problem?" Would these people be happy with an actual human body in their living room or workplace watching every move they make? The problem is people have become so disconnected from reality we don't actually know what it means anymore!

Put your tin foil hat back on and don't forget to take your meds.

I try and avoid google as much as I can