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  1. #726
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    Bangkok Post : Govt advised, delay wage rise

    Govt advised, delay wage rise

    The government’s plan to raise the daily minimum wage of workers in Bangkok and six other provinces to 300 baht in April 2012 should be delayed because manufacturers were severely affected by the great flood, Somchai Chitsuchon of Thailand Development Research Institute, said on Wednesday.

    At a seminar on “Reinvent Thailand”, Mr Somchai said the government must consider implementing the wage hike policy at a more appropriate time.

    “The increase in the daily minimum wage must be suited to the market mechanism and the skills of workers must also be impoved,” he said.

    He suggested that the daily minimum wage should be gradually raised, step-by-step, at an average of 20 per cent each time.

    Pattamawadee Suzuki of Thammasat University’s faculty of economics took the same tone.

    She said the daily minimum wage in Bangkok and nearby provinces should not be raised at this time because these provinces are in need of rehabilitation.
    "Slavery is the daughter of darkness; an ignorant people is the blind instrument of its own destruction; ambition and intrigue take advantage of the credulity and inexperience of men who have no political, economic or civil knowledge. They mistake pure illusion for reality, license for freedom, treason for patriotism, vengeance for justice."-Simón Bolívar

  2. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    The wage increase will end up hurting the middle-class businessman and increase the unemployment rate for the lower classes, while not making much of a difference to the upper-class 'elite'.
    After reading most posts and knowing what I know about govrnmremts in general, I have come to agree with you. So what's the answer? 'Cut Backs' must be made and all will suffer. Except for The Elite of course.

  3. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zampan0 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    The wage increase will end up hurting the middle-class businessman and increase the unemployment rate for the lower classes, while not making much of a difference to the upper-class 'elite'.
    After reading most posts and knowing what I know about govrnmremts in general, I have come to agree with you. So what's the answer? 'Cut Backs' must be made and all will suffer. Except for The Elite of course.
    Well, you have to realize that I'm a 'middle-class businessman' so my opinion does indeed have a bias...

    I don't have an answer- I can only see potential problems, but I can at least use myself as a real-life example.

    Do I have workers that deserve more money? Absolutely- I also have some that I would fire before giving them a raise as they're close to worthless- I keep them around as they're occasionally useful when used as manpower for simple tasks, and oftentimes it's useful to have extra bodies to throw around.

    Now, if I'm at a point where I have already minimized my expenses and maximized my profits (which is the case), a pay increase could hit me in the wallet to the tune of more than $10,000 per year (300K+ baht) with no way of recouping that loss except by dumping some of my less-valued employees and adding their responsibilities to my more-valued employees (along with their raise in salary, of course)- where I now accept a certain level of work for a low level of pay, I will become more demanding and discriminating with my employees.

    This option of more pay and fewer workers has always existed for me and I could have implemented it at any time- I have to say that in my years of experience in Thailand that the way it's always been is actually the way the Thais seem to prefer it- that might be a prejudicial view on my part, of course, but that's the way I see it- the workers whom I feel deserve more money could actually have sought out (and possibly found) more gainful employment than I can offer, but they liked the lower-stress environment that a larger amount of co-workers provided.

    My other options are to simply absorb the loss, though I'm not rich to the point where $10,000+ is meaningless for me (especially over several years, where it could mean putting off my retirement date), or have my profits drop to the point where I feel my businesses are no longer viable and close one or more of them (which I don't see happening as I make decent money, but there are others who don't do as well who will indeed close down or move on).

    What will happen is that I will fire people, and they will end up in a job market where it will be very difficult for them to find work, and they will either be under-employed (part-time, i.e.) or out of work entirely.

    The government is offering tax breaks that won't come close to subsidizing my potential losses- I don't know what else I can do other than to downsize.
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
    HST

  4. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    Do I have workers that deserve more money? Absolutely- I also have some that I would fire before giving them a raise as they're close to worthless- I keep them around as they're occasionally useful when used as manpower for simple tasks, and oftentimes it's useful to have extra bodies to throw around.
    if it's not much to ask, what is your business line exactly ? and how many do you employ ? your case is interesting to see that kind of impact in certain industries or line of business,

  5. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    Do I have workers that deserve more money? Absolutely- I also have some that I would fire before giving them a raise as they're close to worthless- I keep them around as they're occasionally useful when used as manpower for simple tasks, and oftentimes it's useful to have extra bodies to throw around.
    if it's not much to ask, what is your business line exactly ? and how many do you employ ? your case is interesting to see that kind of impact in certain industries or line of business,
    No offense, but I prefer to talk about my business in abstract (using some general personal details) as far as forums are concerned- if we ever meet in person I would be happy to discuss it with you, though.

  6. #731
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    Thai-ASEAN News Network

    2012 Unemployment Expected to Jump

    UPDATE : 30 December 2011

    The Labor Ministry predicts that the unemployment rate next year will be on the rise.

    Meanwhile, the government pledges to implement its policy to increase daily minimum wage to 300 baht by April.


    The Labor Ministry reported that the unemployment rate could possibly increase by 68 percent by the end of January, based on a recent analysis using the Composite Signal Indicator.

    Labor and Protection Welfare Department Director General Arthit Issamo said the recent flooding contributed to the lay-offs of 20,000 workers, while another 300,000 people are waiting to see if their flood-hit factories will recall them to work after the rehabilitation process.

    He added that the unemployment rate is expected to increase in January.

    In response, the Employment Department has prepared additional 140,000 positions to help tackle the problem.

    Meanwhile, Labor Minister Padermchai Sasomsap insisted that his ministry will push forward with the government's attempt to raise the daily minimum wage to 300 baht in seven provinces, namely Bangkok, Phuket, Nonthaburi, Pathum Thani , Samut Prakan, Samut Sakhon and Nakhon Pathom from April 1.

    Meanwhile, the minimum wage in other provinces will be hiked by 40 percent before a full raise to 300 baht by 2013.

    Moreover, he said the government has announced a Corporate Income Tax cut from 30 to 23 percent in order to relieve the burden of entrepreneurs.

  7. #732
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    Bangkok Post : Workers press for B300 daily wage

    Workers press for B300 daily wage

    Labour organisations are mounting pressure on the government for a daily minimum wage of 300 baht throughout the country immediately, threatening to file a case with the Administrative Court if it fails to respond to their demand.

    Chairman of the Thai Labour Reconciliation Committee (TLRC) Chalee Loysung said on Wednesday that all labour networks want the government to immediately increase the daily minimum wage throughout the country in line with an International Labour Organisation convention which says workers must be given a daily wage which meets the cost of living.

    A survey made by the TLRC showed that the average cost of living was 561.79 baht per day, he said.

    Mr Chalee said the government had increased the living allowances for government officials and state enterprise workers, but failed to increase the daily wage for other workers.

    This showed the government applied double standards, causing disparities in society, and this could lead to an uprising by workers, he said.

    Following the huge flooding last year, the cabinet passed a resolution to postpone the promised wage increase to 300 baht per day in seven provinces from Jan 1 to April 1 this year.

    The minimum wage in the other provinces would eventually go up to 300 baht by Jan 1, 2013. After that the minimum wage would be frozen for two to three years.

    Mr Chalee said the TLRC was opposed to freeze on the minimum wage for two to three years and wanted the wage to go up on a yearly basis, in line with the economic situation. At the same time, the government must control the prices of consumer goods, especially petrol and gas, to prevent a deterioration in living standards.

    If the government failed to respond to this demand the TLRC and other labour organisations thoughout the country would consult lawyers about bringing a lawsuit in the Administrative Court, Mr Chalee said.

    Boonsom Thawichit, chairwoman of the group of labour unions in Saraburi and nearby provinces, said that when when government's policy to end subsidies for fuel and gas takes effect prices would certainly go up.

    Thanaporn Wichan, leader of a women's labour group, said the government places too much emphasis on the export sector. If the world economy as in crisis, factories would certainly be closed and workers laid off.

    So, the government should assist purchasing power within the country by increasing the labour wage, to reduce the risk, she said.

  8. #733
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    Thai-ASEAN News Network - Oishi Buffet to Increase Price Due to Rising Costs

    Oishi Buffet to Increase Price Due to Rising Costs

    UPDATE : 18 January 2012

    Oishi Group is planning to increase the price of its buffet by five baht due to the rising labor and energy costs.

    The company expects the flood-damaged facility to resume production in June.

    Vice President of Oishi Group Paisal Aosathaporn has indicated that the company has been affected by rising energy cost and the 300 baht daily minimum wage policy.


    The company currently employs more than 6,000 people at its 129 restaurant branches.

    As a result, Oshi may have to raise its buffet price by one to two percent, or about five baht per person, which is still within consumers' purchasing power.

    The Oishi executive also expects the manufacturing facility at the flood-hit Navanakorn Industrial Estate in Pathum Thani Province to resume production within six months.

    At the moment, each branch is responsible for acquiring its own ingredients.

    The Oishi Group has set its revenue goal for this year at 5.2 billion baht, a 27 percent year-on-year growth.

    Last year, the company grew by 25 percent. It has also set aside 300 million baht for a marketing campaign that will utilize various media outlets.

    Moreover, the company is investing another ten million baht to create smart phone applications to foster relations with its customers, particularly younger people.

  9. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    Do I have workers that deserve more money? Absolutely- I also have some that I would fire before giving them a raise as they're close to worthless- I keep them around as they're occasionally useful when used as manpower for simple tasks, and oftentimes it's useful to have extra bodies to throw around.
    In my experience of being in the private sector workforce in the U.S. for approx. 12 years, this is exactly how 90% -at least- of employers look at the people they employ, i.e., not people but bodies. The employers have the expensive homes and cars, luxury vacations, etc., while the employees struggle. It is the reason that I became self employed thirty years ago this coming February. Over these past thirty years it has gone from bad to worse with the shipping of jobs overseas, modest increases in the minimum wage that don't cover inflation, many things to bring down the standard of living of the workforce. Imo, Henry Ford had it right, i.e., pay the workers enough so they can afford to buy the product being produced. Ford's idea actually worked and was in great part responsible for America's dominance in world trade and the high quality of the standard of living of the workers. It seems that the ethos of of totalitarianism mixed with facism is what now governs what is left of the work force. I've had the big house and cars (I no longer do), was I any happier with them? Not really. I did it on my own with zero employee's. I guess that I could have become quite rich if it was in me to use people, it just wasn't in me to do so. I think it's because my dear departed mother always told me, "If you ever hire people , treat them well". If there is a heaven, my mother is there, but I am afraid that these 90% or so of employers that use folks to make their money won't get a chance to meet her. Do you actually think that when Jesus Christ spoke of the "eye of a needle" he was joking?
    May the Cyclops eat you next to last.

  10. #735
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    ^

    Wow- you really took an out-of-context part of a long post and ran with it.

    Sorry I won't get to meet your mom in Heaven- like the line from the song goes, "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints- the sinners are much more fun."

    Nice religious/socialist rant, though.

  11. #736
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    I blame NAFTA

  12. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zampan0 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    Do I have workers that deserve more money? Absolutely- I also have some that I would fire before giving them a raise as they're close to worthless- I keep them around as they're occasionally useful when used as manpower for simple tasks, and oftentimes it's useful to have extra bodies to throw around.
    In my experience of being in the private sector workforce in the U.S. for approx. 12 years, this is exactly how 90% -at least- of employers look at the people they employ, i.e., not people but bodies. The employers have the expensive homes and cars, luxury vacations, etc., while the employees struggle. It is the reason that I became self employed thirty years ago this coming February. Over these past thirty years it has gone from bad to worse with the shipping of jobs overseas, modest increases in the minimum wage that don't cover inflation, many things to bring down the standard of living of the workforce. Imo, Henry Ford had it right, i.e., pay the workers enough so they can afford to buy the product being produced. Ford's idea actually worked and was in great part responsible for America's dominance in world trade and the high quality of the standard of living of the workers. It seems that the ethos of of totalitarianism mixed with facism is what now governs what is left of the work force. I've had the big house and cars (I no longer do), was I any happier with them? Not really. I did it on my own with zero employee's. I guess that I could have become quite rich if it was in me to use people, it just wasn't in me to do so. I think it's because my dear departed mother always told me, "If you ever hire people , treat them well". If there is a heaven, my mother is there, but I am afraid that these 90% or so of employers that use folks to make their money won't get a chance to meet her. Do you actually think that when Jesus Christ spoke of the "eye of a needle" he was joking?
    Agree with you.

  13. #738
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    ^

    Wow- you really took an out-of-context part of a long post and ran with it.

    Sorry I won't get to meet your mom in Heaven- like the line from the song goes, "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints- the sinners are much more fun."

    Nice religious/socialist rant, though.
    Have fun in hell.

  14. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zampan0
    Have fun in hell.
    I'll save you a place in line if I get there first. If I remember my Dante, there's a special circle for judgmental, assumptive pricks, so I guess that will be your spot- I'll be with the evil bosses and idle rich, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    I'll be with the evil bosses and idle rich, I guess.
    And if you pay decent wages and meet your bills, you deserve to enjoy the party.
    The only problem I have with the much overdue wage rise is all of this foot dragging in getting it implemented. Minimum wages are way too low here, by any measure.

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    ^

    My point has always been this- I agree that wages are low (too low in many cases)- the fact that they're low, though, means that there are more jobs to go around (using my own anecdotal experience of having redundant employees- hence my reference to 'throwing bodies' at a problem or job, which was not meant to be demeaning to my workers- as finding quality workers is very difficult).

    If I have to pay higher wages, I will become much more selective in my screening process (right now I'm lazy) and much more demanding of my workers- I will also employ fewer people and expect more production out of the ones I keep.

    If that means I'm going south after I croak, so be it.

  17. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    If I have to pay higher wages, I will become much more selective in my screening process
    And training process too, hopefully. If Thailand persists in it's low wage, pay peanuts for monkeys philosophy then the process that is already visibly happening will only continue, and ultimately be set in concrete. Namely being overtaken by it's regional neighbours. From a long term view, this does not only fall on the shoulders of employers though- education reform is much needed.

    You should indeed pay more attention to the quality of your hiring and training, if your business outlook is geared to the long term.

  18. #743
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    ^

    Well, I've been in business in LOS more than ten years, and I show no signs of stopping anytime soon.

    It's the unskilled positions that are the biggest problem- there is no real 'training'- wages are low, and most businesses are over-staffed at that level- most of these employees are unmotivated (even for more money) so there are a lot of available slots as they're cheap to employ- when wages are mandated to increase, only the best of this bunch will retain their jobs, and the others will be cut loose (and they'll probably have problems finding a new position)- federally-controlled low wages are a form of government welfare, and it's going to come to an end.

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    a permanent underclass of the size thailand has is ultimately unworkable, imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    federally-controlled low wages are a form of government welfare, and it's going to come to an end.
    My view is that it has to, unless Thailand wishes to become the sick man of Asia.
    Unfortunately, I also get the feeling that is what many of the sinothai 'business elite' want- a cheap, docile but uneducated workforce, reliant upon an affluent and educated (yet occluded) elite. I know it is not what the people want though- so how surprising that many of this entrenched elite wish the peasants did not have a vote.
    I know what you mean about hiring, firing, motivation etc, and it can fairly be described as frustrating from a western businessmans perspective. It is also, of course, a function of the existing system in Thailand- a system that is woefully past it's sell by date.

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    ^^

    That may be true- there are certainly potential problems on the horizon.

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    Of course the rich want to stay rich (and get richer)- at the same time, an SME needs to remain sustainable- it's the middle-class employer that will have the biggest problem.

    I make a decent living, but I'm not rich- if you decrease or remove my business viability, I'm not the only one who will be hurt.

  23. #748
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    If the overdue increase in minimum wage makes your business unviable, it is pretty obvious that you are in the wrong business. As a 'middle class businessman' with at least a decade in Thailand, I am sure you have the necessary competence to accomodate it- and if you are 'good', ultimately benefit from it. The real 'sweatshops' will be moving to Burma, incidentally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    If the overdue increase in minimum wage makes your business unviable, it is pretty obvious that you are in the wrong business. As a 'middle class businessman' with at least a decade in Thailand, I am sure you have the necessary competence to accomodate it- and if you are 'good', ultimately benefit from it. The real 'sweatshops' will be moving to Burma, incidentally.
    You keep singing the same tune, and I keep giving you the same answer.

    I will do what is necessary to remain viable- if that means eliminating jobs (and it probably will) then that's what I'll do- as I've said several times, I believe that this minimum-wage increase will lead to greater unemployment, and that's why I think it's not the panacea you think it is.

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    BIG problems, i think.

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