Thread: Minimum wage to increase by April 2011

Originally Posted by FailSafe

There has been mention of it- tax reductions will not come close to off-setting the wage increase.

That depends very much on the type of business. There will be alot that are better off. I can see the government will have to do something extra to assist some small businesses.

Originally Posted by FailSafe

There has been mention of it- tax reductions will not come close to off-setting the wage increase.

By whom? I misused "offset" given the tax context - i.e. it usually implies 100% - so "set against" or "mitigate" is more appropriate here.

Originally Posted by Fondles

Assuming the legal maximum of a 48hr/6 day working week I calculate an averaged Bt.7800 salary for the month (based on a day rate of Bt.300) up from Bt.5200 (based on a day rate of Bt.200). Where did you get your Bt.6000/Bt.9000 figures from or does said business owner only allow employees to have a day off on the months totaling 31 days ?

Using round numbers makes it easier, and your numbers don't take into account monthly contributions towards social welfare tax and insurance, and many employees have the option of working overtime (for which they are correctly compensated).

Even using your numbers without taking anything else into account it's still a drop in profit of nearly 35% (based on a 60K monthly average income for the owner at current rates).

Originally Posted by FailSafe

It's been mentioned in a couple of the articles posted (on this thread and elsewhere) by SD.

Acknowledged already.

Originally Posted by SteveCM

It's largely absent from the media reports of various bodies predicting mass lay-offs - and wholly absent from the first-hand accounts offered by members here.

^

I offered a 'first-hand account' in post #269 after you first brought this up in post #263:

Originally Posted by FailSafe

my corporate tax reduction wouldn't off-set two months of the salary increase

What else do you want, Steve? There aren't very many people on this thread who actually do business in Thailand- you're not going to hear much as far as first-hand experience goes (though there is no shortage of opinions).

Originally Posted by sabang

It is rather disengenous of a Democrat supporter exhibiting considerable sour grapes over the election result to give such a draconian estimate of the staff he will need to drop, if Yingluck's onerous new minimum wage comes into being. The plain fact is, if all of those staff are that marginal Buksida it is not really a commercial business at all, rather a charity you can no longer afford.

I'm a Democrat supporter? I've given draconian estimates of the staff I have to drop? More BS from a nutter.

Bureaucrats wages go up to a 12k min, uni grads start on 15k. Has there ever been a country that has raised wages so steeply? If so what were the results?

To say that businesses would just shrug off rises of this scale is stupidity.

Does PT even have a proper policy for all these wage rises? When was the last time they spoke of them?

Quote:
Clearly, labor intensive & low mark-up industries will be most affected.

Care to name some of these industries? Agriculture and export garments are two that spring to mind.

Originally Posted by Sailing into trouble

Left of centre FS? You must be left of a centre close to MAggie Thatcher! So your cost of production goes up. Like Oil gas electricity rubber wood water what do you do? Come on you know you pass it on whenever possible to the consumer.

I'm not a socialist like you, this is true- I'm sure you give the indigent in Canada rides on your sailboat to give them a a taste of the 'good life'.

I'm going to have to fire people- THAT'S how I'm going to control my costs- I would rather not have to do that- apparently that's OK with you, though, if jobs I've created are lost.

Originally Posted by Sailing into trouble

If your enterprise is such that it is competing on such slim margins that you can not this is not competitive, then the general idea that you make less profit so that the peasants you employ can earn $ 30+ extra.

You are really looking at this like a simpleton- it's not about '$30'- it's something closer to $100 x 50 x 12 (I know you can do the math, but that's $60,000- a pittance for you, I'm sure, but for me it's a nice piece of change out of my pocket).

Originally Posted by Sailing into trouble

That is what this legislation is about. A very minor redistribution of wealth. You get less they get more. Comprendy ! So instead of the Range ROver buy a Toyota and suck it up!

Again, you're a socialist- I'm not- I'm also a bit more concerned about the wealth that's being redistributed when it's coming directly out of my pocket- believe me, I'd be pretty free-and-easy if we were talking about your money.

Originally Posted by SteveCM

Plainly enough, different businesses will have very different situations - so nothing like a broad view picture is likely to emerge from the limited sample available here.

Of course not- I speak from having middle-end businesses (both on the lower and higher spectrum of the 'middle')- I also know a lot of other people at my same economic standpoint, and they are in the same boat as me. I can also speak from the lower-end side as I currently have a very small business as well (the one I said I will probably have to close).

I can't speak from the position of the 'big boys' (sadly...)

the corporate tax reduction will not be enough to pay for the salary increase, mostly because company do tax optimization and don't pay that much tax in the first place

actually corporate tax here should be increased, it will be a more stable source of revenue in the long run.

regardless, the 300 THB minimum salary is a necessity because the cost of living have risen sharply here and companies are too slow to adjust.

I'm not arguing that wages aren't low, it's the attitude that having sharp increases (not just on min wages), is something easily absorbed by employers, especially those exporting to the EU and US whose economies and currencies are shite.

Originally Posted by FailSafe

Using round numbers makes it easier, and your numbers don't take into account monthly contributions towards social welfare tax

I bet the employers were not up in arms when the compulsory contributions was lowered from 5% to 3% in 2009.

quote=FailSafe;1834271]
and many employees have the option of working overtime (for which they are correctly compensated).
[/quote]

Errm if the employees are doing overtime one would assume the company is busy and actually turning a profit, if the overtime is such a burden employ more staff.

^ We have several who claim to be knowledgeable in business that support the policy, even though it's not clear what the policy is.

They make meaningless statements like:

It is definitely a fact that employers are entitled to expect that a fair wedge of the 40% wage rise for the lowest paid to be recuperated from increased productivity.

It is definitely a fact that being entitled to expect something does not mean one will receive it.

I'm never sure whether it's better to show admiration for or sympathy to any farang attempting to operate a business here in Thailand.

All through my own experience elsewhere, I received plentiful comments (sometimes praise) from onlookers who often had no first-hand experience of any - let alone my - business. My response was to listen politely..... and change the subject.

Accordingly, I now find it better to leave others to mind their own business - for good or ill it's their business and not mine.

Originally Posted by SteveCM

I'm never sure whether it's better to show admiration for or sympathy to any farang attempting to operate a business here in Thailand.

I'm not looking for either, Steve- I've been fortunate to do well over here, but I just as easily could have gone home with my tail between my legs.

I remember scouring the internet for information over ten years ago looking for some help with my planned business venture in Thailand- there was pretty much nothing (other than some names and email addresses, few of which were of any help)- I would like to contribute some of my experience to the TD forum in the hopes that someone who comes here after me will be able to benefit from my own story- this is why I tried to (and will continue to) post my opinions and real-world information here, and why I will 'fight the good fight' against what I consider to be ill-informed opinions and outright disinformation (based on rumor and second-hand experience) re: doing business in Thailand.

Originally Posted by SteveCM

All through my own experience elsewhere, I received plentiful comments (sometimes praise) from onlookers who often had no first-hand experience of any - let alone my - business. My response was to listen politely..... and change the subject.

Accordingly, I now find it better to leave others to mind their own business - for good or ill it's their business and not mine.

If this was a US-based (on non-Thailand-based) forum, I would feel the same way, but it's not, and it's important to have some decent info available on TD.

I'm not saying I'm 100% right all the time, but I can definitely offer a needed perspective around here.

Originally Posted by FailSafe

How long have you been operating a business in Thailand, Fondles? Got any real-world opinions to offer? Just making a few sniping posts doesn't really add anything to the argument.

Technically have never operated a business here, however 5yrs ago I did assist in the setting up of one, I still currently work for the same business.

^

Actually I shouldn't have posted that- you're as entitled to your opinion as I am regardless of your business experience here- I just went a bit overboard.

^^^
Can't argue with any of that - and all credit to you. But I guess you also realise that the News threads tend to be more about political football and associated point-scoring. "Decent info" seems to be way down the list of priorities for many here.

P.S. I'm not always this sanctimonious - IMO.