Thread: BYD's steep EV discounting in Thailand sparks backlash, PM seeks assurances

BANGKOK: Thailand's consumer protection agency has received about 70 complaints since initiating a probe into aggressive discounting by BYD dealers that has left some buyers feeling they overpaid for their Chinese electric vehicles.


Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin told BYD chief executive Wang Chuanfu, who was in Thailand to mark the opening of its first Southeast Asian factory this week and paid a courtesy call to the premier on Friday (Jul 5), to better manage customer expectations about pricing and ensure local buyers were protected.

Wang gave assurances that future pricing would be appropriate and affected customers would receive support, according to a government spokesman.


BYD officials in Thailand and its sole distributor, Rever Automotive, which has a network of over 100 dealerships, did not immediately respond to Reuters emails seeking comment.


The government initiated its investigation into BYD's dealers after a complaint alleged a sales representative had asserted the customer's car price would rise after a discounting campaign ended but instead, the dealership cut prices further.

On social media, some BYD owners in Thailand vented that the deep discounting by the world's largest EV manufacturer had left them feeling short-changed.


"Nothing hurts more than this," said one owner on Facebook, explaining that a BYD Atto 3 car he had bought for 1.19 million baht (US$32,523) was now selling for 859,000 baht.


Another aggrieved owner posted a video of himself scribbling disparaging remarks about BYD with a thick blue marker on the hood of his EV, including: "I am never buying this car brand again."


Rever's website on Friday showed some models are currently being discounted by as much as 340,000 baht.

BYD's steep EV discounting in Thailand sparks backlash, PM seeks assurances - CNA

Good advertising

1. Buy an EV
2. Discover it is shit.
3. Chinese dealer discounts increase
4. China knew it was shit already

Not Asian news but about BYD’s electric cars.

Europe is slapping tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles — for now. Here's what to know

FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) — The European Union is imposing sharply higher customs duties on electric vehicles imported from China. EVs are the latest flash point in a broader trade dispute over Chinese government subsidies and Beijing's burgeoning exports of green technology to the 27-nation bloc.

The higher duties go into effect on Friday, pending a final decision in four month's time.


Here are some basic facts about the EU's planned customs duties:


What did the European Union do?


After an eight-month investigation, the European Commission, the EU’s executive arm, found that companies making electric cars in China benefit from massive government help that means they can undercut rivals in the EU on prices, take a big market share and threaten European jobs.

It announced the higher duties on June 12 and they go into effect from Friday. The duties are provisional, meaning they will be totaled up but won’t need to be paid until they’re confirmed by a vote of EU governments before Nov. 2. The EU will only collect the duties if there's a further finding that the European auto industry would have suffered material harm without them.


That gives the EU and the Chinese government time to negotiate. Talks have been held between Valdis Dombrovskis, the EU commissioner for the economy, and Chinese Trade Minister Wang Wentao, as well as at the level of technical experts.


The higher duties are not a goal in themselves but “a means to correct an imbalance,” commission spokesman Eric Mamer said Thursday. “We certainly hope we can come to a solution which would allow us not to have to move forward on this path.”

The rates, if applied, would be: 17.4% on cars from BYD, 19.9% on those from Geely and 37.6% for vehicles exported by China’s state-owned SAIC. Geely has brands including Polestar and Sweden’s Volvo, while SAIC owns Britain’s MG, one of Europe’s bestselling EV brands. Other EV manufacturers in China including Western companies such as Volkswagen, BMW and Tesla would be subject to duties of at least 20.8%. The commission mentioned that Tesla might get an “individually calculated” rate if duties are definitively imposed.


Under EU rules it's possible — though at present it seems unlikely — that the higher duties could be blocked ahead of the Nov. 2 effective date by vote of what the EU calls a “qualified majority” of countries. That means at least 15 of the 27 EU member governments representing at least 65% of the bloc's population.


Why did the commission take action?


Chinese-built electric cars jumped from 3.9% of the EV market in 2020 to 25% by September 2023, the commission said, in part by unfairly undercutting EU industry prices.


The commission says companies in China accomplished that with the help of subsidies all along the chain of production, from cheap land for factories from local governments to below-market supplies of lithium and batteries from state-owned enterprises to tax breaks and below-interest financing from state-controlled banks.

The rapid growth in market share has sparked fears that Chinese cars will eventually threaten the EU's ability to produce its own green technology needed to combat climate change, as well as the jobs of 2.5 million workers at risk in the auto industry and 10.3 million more people whose jobs depend indirectly on EV production.


Subsidized solar panels from China have wiped out European producers — an experience that European governments don't want to see repeated with their auto industry.


Unusually, the commission acted on its own, without a complaint from the European auto industry. Industry leaders and Germany, home to BMW, Volkswagen and Mercedes-Benz, have been skeptics about the subsidy investigation. That's because many of the cars that will be hit with tariffs are made by European companies, and because China could retaliate against the auto industry or in other areas.

How do the EU tariffs compare to ones announced by the U.S.?


The Biden administration is raising tariffs on Chinese EVs to 100% from the current 25%. At that level, the U.S. tariffs block virtually all Chinese EV imports.


That's not what Europe is trying to do.


EU officials want affordable electric cars from abroad to achieve their goals of cutting greenhouse gas emissions by 55% by 2030 — but without the subsidies EU leaders see as unfair competition


The planned tariffs are aimed at leveling the playing field by approximating the size of the excess or unfair subsidies available to Chinese carmakers.


European countries subsidize electric cars, too. The question in trade disputes is whether subsidies are fair and available to all carmakers or distort the market in favor of one side.


Just how cheap are Chinese EVs?


Chinese carmakers have learned to make electric vehicles cheaply amid ferocious price competition at home in the world's largest car market.


BYD's Seal U Comfort model sells for the equivalent of 21,769 euros ($23,370) in China but 41,990 euros ($45,078) in Europe, according to Rhodium Group figures. The base model of BYD's compact Seagull, due to arrive in Europe next year, sells for the equivalent of around $10,000 in China.


What does this mean for European drivers and carmakers?


It's not clear what impact the duties will have on car prices. Chinese carmakers are able to make some cars so cheaply that they could absorb the duties in the form of lower profits instead of raising their prices.


While consumers might benefit from cheaper Chinese cars in the short term, allowing unfair practices could eventually mean less competition and higher prices in the long term, the commission argues.


Currently, Chinese carmakers often sell their vehicles in Europe at much higher prices than the same cars fetch in China, meaning they are favoring profits over market share, even given their recent market gains. Five of BYD’s six models would still earn a profit in Europe even at a 30% tariff, according to Rhodium Group calculations.


The fear is Europe is that Chinese competitors will turn to lowering their prices closer to the ones they are charging in China. and gain an even bigger chunk of the market.


How is China likely to react?


Beijing was sharply critical of the higher duties when they were announced, calling them “a naked act of protectionism."


On Thursday, He Yadong, a spokesperson for the Chinese Commerce Ministry, said that the two sides had held several rounds of technical consultations and noted that a final EU ruling won’t be made for four months.


“It is hoped that the European side and the Chinese side will move in the same direction, show sincerity, expedite the consultation process and reach a mutually acceptable solution as soon as possible on the basis of facts and rules,” he said at a weekly media briefing in Beijing.


He also said that China hopes the EU will seriously listen to the voices of the European automakers and governments that have come out against the tariffs and avoid anti-subsidy measures that would harm cooperation between the Chinese and European auto industries.


It's not clear what agreement might look like. One move could be to agree on minimum prices for Chinese cars.


China could retaliate against European products such as pork or brandy imports, or against European luxury car imports.


Over the longer term, Chinese carmakers could avoid tariffs by making cars in Europe. BYD is building a plant in Hungary, while Chery has a joint venture to build cars in Spain's Catalonia region.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...ow/ar-BB1ppshQ

Already started in a small way with much of Asia/ Africa getting around in Indian built tuk tuks Laos and cambodia has a lot I noticed. Even Sudan had them.

Originally Posted by Switch

The EU certainly has more collective clout than anything a feeble UK or even ASEAN group could muster against the Chinese.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by Switch

and maintain

Eh , what ?

What the fok were they thinking buying a 1st Gen electric Chinese piece of junk.

Especially in this market. Just going on the road people seem to be sneezing out those little Neta things. A neighbour has one, is about as strong as a paper sailboat. Dealership on Mahidol road has around 1000 of them outside. No other models, just one type and that's it. The resale value in another 6 months could be doubled by chucking a pair of Double A batteries on the backseat.

Originally Posted by Switch

because the cars are too expensive to buy and maintain.

actually the chinese ones are steeply undercutting the traditional manufacturers in price, servicing is minimal compared to ICE vehicles. The problem is, and why motorists are turning their back on them is the insurance cost and repair costs should the vehicle require significant repair work.

Originally Posted by malmomike77

actually the chinese ones are steeply undercutting the traditional manufacturers in price

The whole point of the story, but it has evidently eluded twitch.

Originally Posted by malmomike77

actually the chinese ones are steeply undercutting the traditional manufacturers in price, servicing is minimal compared to ICE vehicles. The problem is, and why motorists are turning their back on them is the insurance cost and repair costs should the vehicle require significant repair work.

Whatever Cyrille might say, they are undercutting prices because no one wants one.. No one wants one because they are crap Chinese shite and the batteries tend to die, requiring expensive replacement.
Expensive batteries die on EVs made elswhere too.

Customers prefer ice engines, and eco warriors will keep salving their consciences by buying hybrids, until EV technology catches up about 30 years from now.
Politicians can tax whatever they want. They have no idea how to spend, or redistribute it, because they are poiliticians, and have no idea how real life works!

Originally Posted by Switch

they are undercutting prices because no one wants one.. No one wants one because they are crap Chinese shite and the batteries tend to die, requiring expensive replacement.

they are under cutting other manufacturers due to economies of scale. The chinese saw all this coming and invested heavily in battery capacity and EV capacity; BYD whatever you may think of it has over 18 million square meters of manufacturing capacity in 30 sites world wide; that brings economies of scale

Originally Posted by misskit

Wang gave assurances that future pricing would be appropriate and affected customers would receive support, according to a government spokesman.

Tesla didn't give shit here, when they slashed prices a year or so ago.

European brands had to follow suit

Originally Posted by misskit

Chinese-built electric cars jumped from 3.9% of the EV market in 2020 to 25% by September 2023, the commission said, in part by unfairly undercutting EU industry prices.

The jump wasn't due to the cars were .....shit ?

Originally Posted by misskit

The fear is Europe is that Chinese competitors will turn to lowering their prices closer to the ones they are charging in China. and gain an even bigger chunk of the market.

That would be awfull

Originally Posted by misskit

European countries subsidize electric cars, too.

Oh

Originally Posted by misskit

The Biden administration is raising tariffs on Chinese EVs to 100% from the current 25%. At that level, the U.S. tariffs block virtually all Chinese EV imports.

That's the way to do it.

Let the US consumer pay Tesla's monopoly prices.

Was OhOh first in line to buy a BYD or Neta when released here?

Twitch:

Originally Posted by Switch

The bottom line is that dealerships selling EVs, both new and used, are facing a customer revolt, because the cars are too expensive to buy.

Also Twitch:

Originally Posted by Switch

they are undercutting prices

Looks like the silly old duffer finally found his glasses and read the article.

Originally Posted by Switch (BYD's steep EV discounting in Thailand sparks backlash, PM seeks assurances)
The bottom line is that dealerships selling EVs, both new and used, are facing a customer revolt, because the cars are too expensive to buy.

He probably meant that the second hand ones were too expensive.

It's sunday, Cyrille; be nicer

Originally Posted by malmomike77

they are under cutting other manufacturers due to economies of scale. The chinese saw all this coming and invested heavily in battery capacity and EV capacity; BYD whatever you may think of it has over 18 million square meters of manufacturing capacity in 30 sites world wide; that brings economies of scale

None of which alters the fact that the EVs are Chinese shite. Expensive to buy and maintain in the west.
A Chinese EV costing USD40K in the west, sells on Chinese domestic market for USD10K. Google how much a chinkie replacement battery costs ioutside China.

Originally Posted by cyrille

Twitch:



Also Twitch:



Looks like the silly old duffer finally found his glasses and read the article.

How clever of you to edit two separate posts, because you understood neither of them.

Originally Posted by helge

He probably meant that the second hand ones were too expensive.

It's sunday, Cyrille; be nicer

No. I meant what I said.

OK

I don't see any reason for ..customer revolt then.

They are free to shop where they want.

Originally Posted by Switch

Google how much a chinkie replacement battery costs ioutside China.

Can a BYD car battery be replaced?

To avoid getting stranded when your BYD won't start, we recommend frequently checking that your BYD battery and charging system are always in good working order! If you do have a dead battery, a car battery replacement is the only solution.

Atto 3 costs THB 1,199,900 new in thailand
Battery costs THB 896,190 (74.7% of new car price)
Total replacement costs (included other parts and tax) THB 1,167,571 (97.3% of new car price)

Seems rather expensive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/KonaEV/comments/11...tery/?rdt=60883
r/KonaEV
•
10 mo. ago

Pot hole damages battery.

Has anyone had an issue where a pot hole or a speed bump has damaged the battery? My check EV system warning light came on and apparent the battery need replacing but it won’t be covered under warranty because there is damage on the undercarriage of the battery (most likely from a pot hole or speed bump.)

Anyone else have this happen to them? How does a simple pot hole or speed bump damage a battery so it can’t work? This seems like design flaw…. Why is there no skid plate protecting the battery?

Is this a design flaw? I am a cautious driver … so this should not be an issue.