Thai Dhupp and Princess Joy's Thai House Build

[Thai Dhupp]

sleepy hollow

Beware the headless horseman.

LOL...especially if he's 'packing'....

[Thai Dhupp]

Was very interested in this company:

Knock Down Houses

Manihi House

I deliberated the pro's and cons, and in the end went with my own design with some guidance from my builder.

Certain factors came into play which greatly affected my ideas of what I wanted;

Finances: The more complex the construction the more cost, that Ayutthaya roof design alone would have doubled my build cost.

Land space: Although I have over 2 rai of land, it's an odd shape, which restricted what I could do. I was also very aware that my house would be visible from way across the valley, so scrapped the idea of a tall building.

Materials: I have lived in several wooden houses in Thailand, none of them have been ideal for a number of reasons and although they look amazing, my missus and I agreed we wouldn't live in one again. So, a wooden house was out as an option, (that said though, we may build a wooden guest house on our land at a later date, as they are a really nice design feature in the landscape).

New vs Old (or is that young vs old?): The missus really doesn't like old things, old styles etc, and has seemingly only made an exception with me Even if it's a new build, but with an old design flavour, she wouldn't go for it.

Weather: The idea of a Balinese style house, or a house where you walk through the garden/outside to get from one part to the next has always been an attractive proposition, and we have rented several houses with this theme over the past few years, all of which have been badly executed to the point of being annoying enough to move out.

Anyhow, enough of my waffle.. I'm really interested to see how your build develops, as it seems that your inspirations and plans are what I had initially envisaged, but had to abandon.

Cheers for sharing. JE

welcome!! ...and your 'waffle' is interesting so pls dont stop

I too looked at those designs - very nice, build cost 'tween 12k and 18k so, reasonable.

In fact, I contacted them to see if they could supply wood panelling for cladding the upper floor on my build. I basically wanted a 3m tall panel (with simple window detail cut-outs (cutting plan to be supplied) on an initial 46m run. still waiting for the price! Remember, we will build this in 3 stages.

Princess Joy is somewhat more trad (lucky for me) and likes old things too (phew...result!!), so we are definitely looking for the trad appearance but with modern build tech. i really like it, too. having grown up in UK in a succession of Georgian / Victorian houses, only to marry and live in small modern boxes for 'too many' years, I want to get back to something with more character.

You are so right about costs - I'm keeping a handle on costings v closely. i am lucky enough to have 'acquired' a BOQ from an early quoter (he inadvertently sent it to me. lol- thanks very much!!), and was able therefore to see mark-ups and where money will be saved ultimately. If I built those three roofs from wood, the cost would be absolutely astronomic - im going with a shaped steel frame to cut down on this cost, plus for strength too.

[Thai Dhupp]

OK.. here's my QUESTION No.1

I mentioned before that I plan to incorporate rainwater harvesting - I certainly have enough roofs in the plan to do this!

What experiences do you guys have with this. we all understand the basic principles of it but... underground holding tanks? pumped systems to overhead tanks? 2 separate water lines? whats the practical experience of anyone who has actually implemented a system and that performed as planned?

I thought - use this water for toilets and , maybe washing machine - is that what others have done?

Luckily, im at the stage where, based on answers, I can change the build plan if needed

[jonnyenglish]

I have yet to live in a house in Thailand that has had guttering and downpipes, but am planning on installing them, as it will prevent rain from blowing back onto exterior walls and also water splashing up from the ground. All the channelled rainwater will then go into the pond next to my house.

I had considered putting in tanks, but the issue is that the first part of the downpour will wash off all the crap from your roof into your tanks and that grit will erode your pumps if not filtered out. You could install a valve to divert the initial flow of dirty water, but short of actually remembering to run out into the rain after 15 minutes to switch the valve to the collecting tanks, I have yet to see any solution.

I guess you could have a settling tank installed prior to being siphoned off into the 'clean' tank before pumping, but this seems to turn a simple collection exercise into a water engineering project, plus maintenance would be a pita.

I'll be interested in hearing of an easy solution too.

[Klondyke]

I had considered putting in tanks, but the issue is that the first part of the downpour will wash off all the crap from your roof into your tanks and that grit will erode your pumps if not filtered out. I have yet to see any solution.

I guess you could have a settling tank installed prior to being siphoned off into the 'clean' tank before pumping, but this seems to turn a simple collection exercise into a water engineering project, plus maintenance would be a pita.

I'll be interested in hearing of an easy solution too.

There is no great engineering project to have settling tank(s) for collecting rain water. Just have the water settled for a day or two, then - when needed - repump (any small cheap pump) the water (taken some 10 cm above the tank bottom) to the clean storage tank. After the settling the water is quite clean. Of course, after one year the settling tank(s) is to be cleaned, the dirt washed out by the (large) opening at the bottom.

The water from the storage tank for house demand should be taken through a sand filter (a pressure vessel tank) that can be backwashed after some time. The water after longer storage under local temperatures and under attack of various creatures is not really clean for a teethbrushing, etc. Therefore, it is a good idea to throw in the tank a spoon of chlorine (once a week).

[Thai Dhupp]

I had considered putting in tanks, but the issue is that the first part of the downpour will wash off all the crap from your roof into your tanks and that grit will erode your pumps if not filtered out. I have yet to see any solution.

I guess you could have a settling tank installed prior to being siphoned off into the 'clean' tank before pumping, but this seems to turn a simple collection exercise into a water engineering project, plus maintenance would be a pita.

I'll be interested in hearing of an easy solution too.

There is no great engineering project to have settling tank(s) for collecting rain water. Just have the water settled for a day or two, then - when needed - repump (any small cheap pump) the water (taken some 10 cm above the tank bottom) to the clean storage tank. After the settling the water is quite clean. Of course, after one year the settling tank(s) is to be cleaned, the dirt washed out by the (large) opening at the bottom.

The water from the storage tank for house demand should be taken through a sand filter (a pressure vessel tank) that can be backwashed after some time. The water after longer storage under local temperatures and under attack of various creatures is not really clean for a teethbrushing, etc. Therefore, it is a good idea to throw in the tank a spoon of chlorine (once a week).

Yes... we are definitely fitting guttering.

I was considering a centrifugal / filter system between the 'holding tank' and the usage tank. ie final filtering before you actually send it to be used.

Something like this: Remove Dirt, Sand and other Particles in Your Water with our CARE FREE SandMaster Plus

Of course I think this sytem is trying to create 'drinkable' water - I'm not looking for that, so maybe 'only' the centrifugal concept from the roof run-off before it goes in the lower holding tank would suffice?

Or maybe as you say, a small settling tank before the main holding tank.

Is my usage correct? toilets and washing machine?

Also, I plan to divert all this 'grey' water away from the septic system, only meeting up with the 'black' water in a combination tank just before the drain field

[crackerjack101]

Our wooden -mostly - Lana style house has guttering and tanks but our main water source is the well.

6 months after we moved in we got the well overhauled. They went down another 5 meters or so and double lined the top 3/4 to avoid seepage from the paddy fields.

Since then - 6 years - we've had a constant source of good, relatively clean water which we pump to the house.

We also have 4,000 litres of tank capacity collecting rain water. This has it's own pump and can run into the house system if there should ever be issues with the well.
We don't have filters on this bit but when the rain starts we let it run for 30 minutes to clear away the crap and then open up the receiving tank. We found that an old fan grill fits the large opening on the top of the tank perfectly, so we wrapped that in fairly fine shade cloth to keep out any additional crap like leaves and so on.
Once the tanks are full I add a cup of bleach to each of the three tanks, shut them up and thats it. So far this seems to have worked well.

The water from the well and these tanks is used for everything apart from actual drinking. Though she drinks it with no problems. Cooking, teeth cleaning etc are not a problem though I prefer to drink bottled water simply because I'm fussy and can't afford to get any unpleasant gut infections.

I'm quite sure that "water" is going to become a major issue in our area in the years to come and decided to increase our storage capacity for rain water mainly for the garden. So, we recently installed 6 x 1000 ltr. tanks to collect rain water from the carport roof. No pump at present as I'm hoping it will gravity feed with sufficient pressure to drip feed the garden as required during the dry season. We have about 1.5 rai of garden with masses of plants, trees and bushes. Don't ask me what they are that's her hobby.

So, I think we're pretty well covered. I would have liked to have sunk a bore back in the day but the cost was ridiculous and, as it turns out, we have had excellent results from the improved well.

By the way the tanks are all food grade and once they're shut down we've had no problems with creatures invading.

The house stand-bye tanks treated with a bit bleach seem to work well and there have been no adverse repercussions when we've used this water.
We drain these tanks once a year and then refill at the beginning of the rainy season.

That's it.

[crackerjack101]

Just to add;

Grey water - showers,washing, kitchen - goes to it's own seepage tanks at the back of the garden. Black water - 2 bathrooms and toilets - goes to a triple tank cess pit that is at the opposite corner of the land to the well.

[Slick]

6 months after we moved in we got the well overhauled. They went down another 5 meters or so and double lined the top 3/4 to avoid seepage from the paddy fields.

How did they do this? Pull out the PVC casing & re-drill?

How did they double line the top?

[Thai Dhupp]

Just to add;

Grey water - showers,washing, kitchen - goes to it's own seepage tanks at the back of the garden. Black water - 2 bathrooms and toilets - goes to a triple tank cess pit that is at the opposite corner of the land to the well.

Thanks for the input CJ... you use that grey water for the garden? I guess so. I planned the same but i was thinking about combining the grey supply, maybe 1000L/day with the residue black water 150L/day after it had been through the settlement / active microbe tanks, and using that for irrigation or out to the drain-field.

only im not sure whether adding the black water residue could have problems, health-wise. Probably do the irrigation on a timer at night, but even so...

[crackerjack101]

Just to add;

Grey water - showers,washing, kitchen - goes to it's own seepage tanks at the back of the garden. Black water - 2 bathrooms and toilets - goes to a triple tank cess pit that is at the opposite corner of the land to the well.

Thanks for the input CJ... you use that grey water for the garden? I guess so. I planned the same but i was thinking about combining the grey supply, maybe 1000L/day with the residue black water 150L/day after it had been through the settlement / active microbe tanks, and using that for irrigation or out to the drain-field.

only im not sure whether adding the black water residue could have problems, health-wise. Probably do the irrigation on a timer at night, but even so...

Personally, I would not mix them. Our black water is well away from the plants and trees and will remain so.

As an aside, I no longer eat water melons. Whilst working in Darfur years ago we stopped at a village and bought some superb looking water melons. We tucked in as we continued out trip. Within 6 hours I was exploding from both ends and that then of course that bought on dehydration and 6 days later I came out of the coma.

Turns out the reason the melons looked so good and juicy was that they were fed directly by the black water from the huts.

I can see no real benefits in mixing and a whole lot of potential dangers. If it's going into the garden it's going into the plants, vegetables etc. Not worth it.

[crackerjack101]

Also, if your black water tanks are big enough and set up correctly the seepage should be sufficient to ensure they keep running and never needing a pump out.

We avoid using too much soap or cleaners in the grey water so I'm not worried about that.
We don't use bleaches or toilet cleaner in the toilets so I feel confident we have a good bacterial action going on.

Anyway, to each their own, Good luck to you.

By the way, where do your neighbours get their water? How deep are their wells?

[Thai Dhupp]

Just to add;

Grey water - showers,washing, kitchen - goes to it's own seepage tanks at the back of the garden. Black water - 2 bathrooms and toilets - goes to a triple tank cess pit that is at the opposite corner of the land to the well.

Thanks for the input CJ... you use that grey water for the garden? I guess so. I planned the same but i was thinking about combining the grey supply, maybe 1000L/day with the residue black water 150L/day after it had been through the settlement / active microbe tanks, and using that for irrigation or out to the drain-field.

only im not sure whether adding the black water residue could have problems, health-wise. Probably do the irrigation on a timer at night, but even so...

Personally, I would not mix them. Our black water is well away from the plants and trees and will remain so.

As an aside, I no longer eat water melons. Whilst working in Darfur years ago we stopped at a village and bought some superb looking water melons. We tucked in as we continued out trip. Within 6 hours I was exploding from both ends and that then of course that bought on dehydration and 6 days later I came out of the coma.

Turns out the reason the melons looked so good and juicy was that they were fed directly by the black water from the huts.

I can see no real benefits in mixing and a whole lot of potential dangers. If it's going into the garden it's going into the plants, vegetables etc. Not worth it.

Cheers, yes... like I say its one of many things i was thinking about - could it be done?, etc. i thought, maybe time in the 'black' system would render it harmless or at least lower the content to a level that could be used, but makes sense what you are saying.

[crackerjack101]

you use that grey water for the garden?

Not as such. It drains into 2 buried tanks and then seeps out slowly.
We don't water the garden with it as such.

[Thai Dhupp]

Also, if your black water tanks are big enough and set up correctly the seepage should be sufficient to ensure they keep running and never needing a pump out.

We avoid using too much soap or cleaners in the grey water so I'm not worried about that.
We don't use bleaches or toilet cleaner in the toilets so I feel confident we have a good bacterial action going on.

Anyway, to each their own, Good luck to you.

By the way, where do your neighbours get their water? How deep are their wells?

LOl as yet... no neighbours at all.
1 small hut type house well behind me, but thats it.

there is blue water pipe laid in the road though (the hut-house is connected).

i was thinking of a filter/tank for that one for personal usage / supplement for the rain system

[crackerjack101]

there is blue water pipe laid in the road though (the hut-house is connected).

That's not gov. water then?

[crackerjack101]

Our experience with gov. water has not been good. so much so that when they offered to pipe it us a few years ago we declined.

IMHO a well dug, well lined well or a bore is the best way to go.
You're independent and if you invest the money to get it done properly your looking good. Where's your aquifer?

Rain water collection is then simply a bonus.

[Thai Dhupp]

Our experience with gov. water has not been good. so much so that when they offered to pipe it us a few years ago we declined.

IMHO a well dug, well lined well or a bore is the best way to go.
You're independent and if you invest the money to get it done properly your looking good. Where's your aquifer?

Rain water collection is then simply a bonus.

i believe the water table is well down, as we are on a flat but raised up plot. sorry that sounds a bit dopey.. i mean.. the plot is on a v shallow hill, but the hill itself is well up from the surrounding land. frequent visits to the plots over different times of year including after prolonged heavy rain, and with the lowland temporarily flooded has never shown standing water or even slushy water logged ground at my plots.

i still have the bore hole /well idea on the back burner though. Thinking about it, the pipe might not be blue, I think the meter was blue.

[Thai Dhupp]

i did a bit of research on rain availability to see how 'self sufficient i could be for the toilets, washing machine, etc


this is the avarage rain data for the year for Chonburi.

i went to other data sources to localise it even more - this is the Bo Thong data:


from my sources, i tried a bit of water data modelling on excel:


assuming i had sufficient tank capacity, i reckon i could be water self-sufficient for the toilets etc for 10-11 months of the year!

note, in the model i have the two water streams coming together but that could easily be split...

[crackerjack101]

Simple choice;

A well


or



A bore.


Only way to go IMHO

[Thai Dhupp]

Simple choice;

A well


or



A bore.


Only way to go IMHO

I have it on the list to check into the aquifer depth to see how viable it is.
+ the rain collection, maybe 5000-6000L storage
+ that piped wter supply

surely thats enough!?

thanks for your thoughts and input...appreciated

[Thai Dhupp]

thanks everyone for chipping in with comment etc today - very useful for me

to summarise:

1. dont mix the black and grey water, there is nothing to gain and a lot to lose
2. use the grey water for irrigation
3. black water could be made to seep though the septic tank system, or else run through to the drain field only
4. a borehole provides independence with continuity. Ideally this supply should be filtered
5. rainwater harvesting can be a bonus for toilet and washing machines, possibly the shower too
6. some form of filter system is needed to remove particulate from rainwater harvesting
7. if using a borehole supply, ensure the septic system has no chance to enter that same aquifer anywhere near the borehole location
use septic-friendly chemicals to ensure the 'good' bacteria continue to function

and a couple more from me:
8. a grease trap on the outward lines will lengthen the life of the drain field and system in general
9. avoid washing coffee grounds and macerated food matter down the system for the same reason - they block stuff up, one way or another!
10. sufficient tank capacity should be provided to cover your needs.

Did i cover everything? Hope so... thanks again all.

[David48atTD]

If I could add to the mix?

I live with a an extended Thai Family, so the focus is not on me, but on the Thai Lifestyle.

Water for washing is the government supplied trickle feed.

How the Thai Family 'harvest water' is to simply run the water off the roof into a collection of Ceramic Jugs.


The Jars used to store the water.

The water remains untouched for a few months so that any particulate matter can drop to the bottom.
Water for cooking is then simply scooped from the top. Ditto for drinking water, but it's run through a small charcoal filter sat on the kitchen benchtop.

We have charcoal makers nearby so, our roof gets filthy so, before the downpipe is placed over the storage vessels, we allow a few thunderstorms to roll over to was the roof.


So, how does this all relate to you?

Three points really.

• In the West, we tend to over-engineer everything. Thailand highlights what can be achieved with not much coin.

• Harvested rainwater, stored correctly is usually good to drink and doesn't need any fancy filtering.

• If you are going to harvest the rain water, you need to have a 'First Flush' system in place to make sure the roof has been rinsed clean.

There are a squillion ways to do this, depending on what your main contaminant is.








Google 'rainwater first flush' for the many options.


As for storing water overhead, your tank height might have to be 6 - 8 meters high.

Water pressure can be measured in three common units, bar, psi and Head (m). 1 bar = 10 metres Head = 14.5 psi.

The water pressure available in a gravity-tank fed system is directly related to the height of the water storage tank. To calculate the available pressure simply measure the distance, in metres, from the bottom of the water tank to the outlet of the tap or shower and multiply by 0.1. This will calculate the pressure in bar…

For example : 0.1 Bar (1.45 psi) is equal to approx one metre of height between the bottom of the water tank and the outlet of the tap or shower.
1 metre height of water = 0.1 bar
2 metre height of water = 0.2 bar
3 metre height of water = 0.3 bar
4 metre height of water = 0.4 bar
etc

The Inground storage tank can be effected by the height of the water table.

Think of a half empty tank akin to a boat in the ocean. It's an issue, but easily overcome. A plus is that your water is 'cool' all the time.

Read more here.


Enjoying your thread immensely.

David


Oh, to clarify, the house in the photo isn't where we live but belongs to an Aunt.
It got damaged in a Storm 2 years ago and has since been demolished and a smaller one built in it's place.
.

[Thai Dhupp]

Cheers David...I just read through you excellent post.

I like that first flush unit...definitely want to include it in my system.

An interesting and informative post.. I think we have got to topic covered...thanks!

[Thai Dhupp]

DESIGN part 3

Ok... we digressed a lil' bit after I posed that question but now it's time to continue the story for the plans..

You remember we were left with no plans, oh.. and meeting a guy with a gun?

What ever next?

Well, into the mix jumped PJ's brother... he 'knew someone' who could do the plans! ah ha... really? well, bring this guy forward!

A meeting was arranged and thats how we came into contact with the only one-handed architect / draftsman in the business!! yes he could do, he was experienced. yes... but was he busy? too busy to actually complete? no..no came the reply. Then we got my sketches out. i saw his eyes widen a little (probably thinking about the fee to charge.) lol anyway, he said he would take my stuff and go away to see what was needed (Dur.. a set of plans is needed, Bud, not too difficult) and of course the all-important fee.

Soon, back came the info...25,000THB for the set of plans but NOT including electrics, and not including actually getting them approved. however, if we took them and they were not approved, he would make the changes for free. lol quite right I guess.

So we agreed and sat back to wait for the output.

Can you guess? really, can you guess?

lol

yup... after a month, he revealed that he could not do it. No reason given. I smiled, as this was becoming too regular now.

Straight away, PJ was on the case. She called people everywhere and found another guy to (potentially) do the job.

We sent PDFs of what we wanted. he could do it. Everything. Full plans. architect appraisal. engineers calcs. everything. 50k all in. free mods if the orbortor office needed it. He would even come to the OrBorTor office!!

OMG is this for real? Finally!!

To complete the tale, yes we agreed and yes he completed. whoops... he was getting excited too about maybe building the thing!! So much so he accidentally provided a very comprehensive BOQ.

We went to the OBT. as promised, he approved. dropped him a bottle as thanks which was enthusiastically received. The building permit, etc were all drawn up , stamped and signed, and...finally... we were ready to start!!

In the last part of this i will explain some of the design considerations that went into the floor plans, etc that were approved, but for now... my typing hand needs a rest.

Happy weekend, everybody (I'm at work, of course)