Thai Dhupp and Princess Joy's Thai House Build

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Originally Posted by David48atTD

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Originally Posted by Slick

Its quite convenient. You don't have to go get much unless they need an emergency 5 bags of cement at the end of the day.

Same with concrete trucks. Call yourself & they deliver. Pay after delivery. Order by square meter.

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Did you ever slump test the concrete?

Or were happy to go with the Thai Style?
Implying that a typical Thai mix has a higher initial water content.
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Morning all...

Hi David..how's it going? Well... I worked for RMC Group for 25 years up until they were bought by CEMEX, managing big quarry sites. Including both asphalt and concrete batching plants, and concrete products factories (the money is in those added value products) so I am switched on to slump tests, cube tests. Etc etc.

I am also aware of the Thai builders preference for flooding the concrete for 'workability' and the horribly segregated mixes..an aggregate bottom covered by a layer of fines in suspension. The batching plants don't help- in fact they are happy to sell water at concrete rates all day long disguised as 'what the customer wants'

I will be having a clear "word' before delivery starts about mix design and specification and any changes will come from me only. We won't be adding water on site either.

Lol I,getting into this hard taskmaster mode already and we not even started yet.

It's absolutely essential though.....

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Originally Posted by David48atTD

Did you ever slump test the concrete?

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Of course not :)

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Originally Posted by David48atTD

Or were happy to go with the Thai Style?
Implying that a typical Thai mix has a higher initial water content.

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Cement doesn't cure due to water. Its a chemical reaction. Concrete will 'cure' underwater. We do it offshore all the time. Same with grout.

More than happy to go 'thai style' with concrete mix in a 'factory' with mix-trucks.

Certainly more thorough than an extended hand mix. They have a couple different grades for sale as well. I can promise you that a factory mix will be closer to what it should be over a hand mix + all the time & labor saved.

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Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp

I will be having a clear "word' before delivery starts about mix design and specification and any changes will come from me only. We won't be adding water on site either.

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Cant stop the trucks from adding water. They have tanks onboard. You will be adding water I promise :)

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Originally Posted by Slick

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Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp

I will be having a clear "word' before delivery starts about mix design and specification and any changes will come from me only. We won't be adding water on site either.

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Cant stop the trucks from adding water. They have tanks onboard. You will be adding water I promise :)

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Lol maybe I better ride shotgun.....

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Originally Posted by Slick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David48atTD

Did you ever slump test the concrete?

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Of course not :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David48atTD

Or were happy to go with the Thai Style?
Implying that a typical Thai mix has a higher initial water content.

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Cement doesn't cure due to water. Its a chemical reaction. Concrete will 'cure' underwater. We do it offshore all the time. Same with grout.

More than happy to go 'thai style' with concrete mix in a 'factory' with mix-trucks.

Certainly more thorough than an extended hand mix. They have a couple different grades for sale as well. I can promise you that a factory mix will be closer to what it should be over a hand mix + all the time & labor saved.

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hi Slick...It is a chemical reaction, as you rightly say but it is triggered by that water.. Water present in the mix should be enough to complete the curing (hardening). I stress, water in the mix, if it's correctly added that mix design water will start the hydration process and should be enough for the concrete to reach max strength between 4-6 day, of course depending on thickness, volume etc, I'm not talking about mass concrete pours.

The factor effecting that process if if the water is also evaporating too quickly -that's why we sheet in hessian n plastic and spray water to keep it damp, basically we are adding water to evaporate, so that the mix design water can do its job inside the mix

This is not the same as the mixer driver or on site gang flooding the concrete to make it workable. Keep it wet longer to make it go hard is only true up to a point.This added water does nothing but separate the particles. Heavy aggregate sinks, fine cement rises up as a slurry. And that don't bind the aggregate too much!

Im curious about that underwater concrete though...how is it placed? How do you stop the surrounding water leaching into the mix? What's the effect of the salt water?

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Originally Posted by Slick

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Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp

I will be having a clear "word' before delivery starts about mix design and specification and any changes will come from me only. We won't be adding water on site either.

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Cant stop the trucks from adding water. They have tanks onboard. You will be adding water I promise :)

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I drove mixers for a couple of years in my youth. Transport Beton Kuhner in Viernheim in Germany. Brilliant job. I've never seen such disasters.
Yes, your average 5 m truck carries about 250 litre on board and one could always spot the cowboy crews who wanted all the water in the mix so it'd flow and mean less work for the lads.

I had some interesting exchanges with the blokes doing the slabs when we did our place.

1. Yes, you will raise the steel 7-10 cm up off the deck when pouring a 20cm slab.

2. No, you will not add ALL the water from the mixer to the mix to make it Sabay and easy to spread.

3. Yes, I rented a riddler and you will use it on those walls.

4. Yes, it's the rainy season and you will cover the slab with plastic tarps to protect it.

5. Yes, I do want the ground cleared, and flat before we pour.

6. Yes, I do expect it to be a perfect finish even if it is a fucing car port.

7. No, you can't. You get the grog AFTER the job is done to my satisfaction.

8. No, you won't get paid if you don't do it right. My right not yours.

9. Yes, you can fuck off if you don't like it. I will find someone better.

10. Wife, we need a new concrete crew, make it so..... :smileylaughing:

To raise the mesh off the ground, in the West, we usually use those spacers.

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/06/1654.jpg

and/or

https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif

But I've often the concreting guys here wade through the wet concrete and manually 'pull' the mesh up and it
seems to suspend itself off the ground.

I wouldn't trust it for an overhead suspended slab (I'd be living under) but, for a slab on ground ... sufficient?

BTW, I've seen a few builds where they've made those spaces, in the first pic, on site in Thailand.
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Originally Posted by crackerjack101

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Originally Posted by Slick

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Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp

I will be having a clear "word' before delivery starts about mix design and specification and any changes will come from me only. We won't be adding water on site either.

---

Cant stop the trucks from adding water. They have tanks onboard. You will be adding water I promise :)

---

I drove mixers for a couple of years in my youth. Transport Beton Kuhner in Viernheim in Germany. Brilliant job. I've never seen such disasters.
Yes, your average 5 m truck carries about 250 litre on board and one could always spot the cowboy crews who wanted all the water in the mix so it'd flow and mean less work for the lads.

I had some interesting exchanges with the blokes doing the slabs when we did our place.

1. Yes, you will raise the steel 7-10 cm up off the deck when pouring a 20cm slab.

2. No, you will not add ALL the water from the mixer to the mix to make it Sabay and easy to spread.

3. Yes, I rented a riddler and you will use it on those walls.

4. Yes, it's the rainy season and you will cover the slab with plastic tarps to protect it.

5. Yes, I do want the ground cleared, and flat before we pour.

6. Yes, I do expect it to be a perfect finish even if it is a fucing car port.

7. No, you can't. You get the grog AFTER the job is done to my satisfaction.

8. No, you won't get paid if you don't do it right. My right not yours.

9. Yes, you can fuck off if you don't like it. I will find someone better.

10. Wife, we need a new concrete crew, make it so..... :smileylaughing:

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Lol I have to agree CrackerJack, I too have seem them all, apart from No.7' and a few more besides....

" don't just tap the rebar with your shovel....use that vibrator I supplied"

""No you can't fill the slab area with waste to get rid of it and save money on concrete!"

"Put your wellingtons on! That stuff will burn you!"

...and many more :smileylaughing:

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Originally Posted by David48atTD

To raise the mesh off the ground, in the West, we usually use those spacers.

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2017/06/1654.jpg

and/or

https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif

But I've often the concreting guys here wade through the wet concrete and manually 'pull' the mesh up and it
seems to suspend itself off the ground.

I wouldn't trust it for an overhead suspended slab (I'd be living under) but, for a slab on ground ... sufficient?

BTW, I've seen a few builds where they've made those spaces, in the first pic, on site in Thailand.
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You are quite correct, David.. Those chairs ( what you call spacers) are widely used to lift the rebar mesh into the middle of the concrete slab.

The last thing you want is exposed rebar laying on ground, or more importantly on wet ground. Metal decomposes (rusts) which if left over time would render that Reenforced concrete slab just a concrete slab plus some brown flaky metal!

Builders the world over set up a chair 'factory" at the start of the project and literally make 100's, including my current airport project....cheap and effective - it's a concrete support that is then surrounds by more concrete, sealing the rebar completely. Not so sure about the other options, anything letting water get to rebar is not so good

Trouble is, if the builder is lazy, that mesh will sit on the floor and the concrete will be poured over it. Minimal reenforcing benefit and it will rot away in no time. If you add misplaced rebar to flooded / segregated concrete.. Well you can soon see why some slabs are stronger than others. You need to know these things and definitely need to be looking out for them on site

No lazy builders here tho, right?... so it just could not happen...

A wonderful business to be involved in and, as a simple mixer driver with no responsibilities, a delight to watch, in awe at the total and absolute stuff ups.

The stories could tell.....

As, no doubt could you and anyone evr involved in the business.

I once saw a Turkish crew, lovely blokes, flood a dual carriageway with concrete from 11 trucks, "keep it thin" the shuttering just took off like a rocket, the trucks kept pouring, flat out with full on water, the whole lot of muck went over the hill and straight down onto the first 2 lanes of the main Mannheim - Frankfurt highway.

The Turks got out out of the hole and stood and looked.
Their boss looked at us, there were 6 of us. 30 meters, all gone, mostly rolling down onto the highway.

Our oldest ugliest brokenest fartiestb driver, named Herman, stepped forward.

He drove the oldest truck, no synchro, A/C, power steering and he loved it.
It was his life.
30 beers a day, a bottle of Asbach for dinner.
Never missed a day.

Lovely bloke.

He looked at the Turk.
The Turk looked at him.

Herman produced the delivery notes that had to be signed to prove we'd delivered the muck with the water that THEY"D requested..

The Turk twitched.

Herman pulled a hip flask from front pocket, took a pull and passed it to the Turk who grasped it to his mouth like a lost man in the desert.

Hands were shaken, delivery slips signed, autobahn shut down for 4 days and nights.

We all went home.

The Turkish building crew stole everything they could from the site and headed back to Bodrum from whence they came in their clapped out cars..

All good.

But, an interesting point to note, should you be driving down the autobahn from Frankfurt towards Mannheim about 50 km before Mannheim you really want to get into the outside lane.

The inside lane is a bit rough.


:)

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Originally Posted by crackerjack101

A wonderful business to be involved in and, as a simple mixer driver with no responsibilities, a delight to watch, in awe at the total and absolute stuff ups.

The stories could tell.....

As, no doubt could you and anyone evr involved in the business.

I once saw a Turkish crew, lovely blokes, flood a dual carriageway with concrete from 11 trucks, "keep it thin" the shuttering just took off like a rocket, the trucks kept pouring, flat out with full on water, the whole lot of muck went over the hill and straight down onto the first 2 lanes of the main Mannheim - Frankfurt highway.

The Turks got out out of the hole and stood and looked.
Their boss looked at us, there were 6 of us. 30 meters, all gone, mostly rolling down onto the highway.

Our oldest ugliest brokenest fartiestb driver, named Herman, stepped forward.

He drove the oldest truck, no synchro, A/C, power steering and he loved it.
It was his life.
30 beers a day, a bottle of Asbach for dinner.
Never missed a day.

Lovely bloke.

He looked at the Turk.
The Turk looked at him.

Herman produced the delivery notes that had to be signed to prove we'd delivered the muck with the water that THEY"D requested..

The Turk twitched.

Herman pulled a hip flask from front pocket, took a pull and passed it to the Turk who grasped it to his mouth like a lost man in the desert.

Hands were shaken, delivery slips signed, autobahn shut down for 4 days and nights.

We all went home.

The Turkish building crew stole everything they could from the site and headed back to Bodrum from whence they came in their clapped out cars..

All good.

But, an interesting point to note, should you be driving down the autobahn from Frankfurt towards Mannheim about 50 km before Mannheim you really want to get into the outside lane.

The inside lane is a bit rough.


:)

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That could be especially interesting if Gunter's Porsche hits it at 250......:)

David, Thai Dhupp,

Those plastic chairs, are they available locally? (I haven't noticed them being used anywhere!)
For a standard Isaan house floor slab, can you suggest how many chairs are needed, say per square metre?
Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Shutree

For a standard Isaan house floor slab, can you suggest how many chairs are needed, say per square metre?

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I can't help you with this other than to say they will normally just pour the concrete and pull up on the mesh with their hands.

Those cement chairs wont do shit - the floor slab reinforcement they use is like a mesh type roll. Chair it all you want when the cement goes down it'll get mashed down. They'll still be pulling up on it by hand. Like David said.

They wanted to use that this chicken wire crap mesh on our floors and I refused it.

We put down 15cm slabs throughout with the strong squared reo with which we were happy.

The downstairs floor slabs, kitchen, patio, pathways, forecourt, garage and carport and workshop were all done the same way with CPAC, strong reo and small 1/2 bricks as chairs, everywhere.

Around the edges we're there was the possibility on high stress we poured 20cm and hammered lengths of thick reo into the ground and then tack welded the mesh to the uprights to ensure it stayed up and flat.

Just made it up as we went along but it seems to have worked so far. 6 years and no cracks of any kind.

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Originally Posted by crackerjack101

Just made it up as we went along but it seems to have worked so far.

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Yep me too. Although I have knowledge from my employment, applying it to a house build in Thailand with farmers doing it all was/is hard.

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Originally Posted by crackerjack101

They wanted to use that this chicken wire crap mesh on our floors and I refused it.

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Nothing really crap about it tbh but you'd have to do at least 15 or 20 cm cement slabs if one was to opt for rebar instead of the rolls. And they have different thicknesses as well. There has to be a certain amount of coverage over the rebar or mesh with concrete for it to actually be beneficial. Rebar with 10cm of cement would likely be weaker than the rolls of mesh and 10cm of cement.

But the end of the day it'll take quite a bit to break a 10-13cm slab with mesh. You'd need to have a car-lift in your living room.

Hadn't thought of half bricks as chairs. Should work okay.

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Originally Posted by Slick

You'd need to have a car-lift in your living room.
[at] [at]

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Now there's an idea. I wonder if sh'd go for it?
Perhaps not.....


:)

Good afternoon all.. It's Eid here ( end of Ramadan) so I guess everyone got up late, me included.

ok,.... Chairs. Well we certainly use them here. They are effective in bearing up that mesh, but u need to use enough. One chair every 2m is not enough!!

You want to end up with the mesh of the ground after the muck is placed, as Slick mentioned already. Not only the weight of the concrete can push that mesh down - so can the man wading across the wet slab, trying to pull the mesh into the middle... He almost is defeating his own intentions!. Ideally you fit sufficient chairs that, even when you walk on the mesh. It doesn't sag or collapse with your weight. I have experience of the concrete chairs but probably the plastic ones are just as good (if they were no good I guess people would stop buying them).

Also rightly mentioned is the mesh thickness / stiffness. Chicken-wire grade reenforcing will not be adequately supported by chairs unless you are using 100 per m3!. Equally you don't need 30mm dia. Mesh for simple floor slabs. The concrete chairs will do the job if you use sufficient to support your mesh, and they are quick, cheap and easy to make. Here on the day job, we had the added advantage that much of our reenforced slab work was behind shutters, so, once we had completed the striking, it was clear the mesh was inside the slab, as no mesh was visible, just shutter-finished concrete. We also used a variant of them on the pile cages, down to a depth of 29M.

Hey! If they're good enough for an airport construction they are sure good enough for me. Everyone to their own, though.

As always, thanks everyone for the useful debate and input.

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Originally Posted by crackerjack101

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slick

You'd need to have a car-lift in your living room.
[at] [at]

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Now there's an idea. I wonder if sh'd go for it?
Perhaps not.....


:)

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Lol.. I weighed up this idea too!! And came to the same conclusion......

.....rather a long break for Ramadan ? :confused:

was rather looking forward to this build !

Good luck with the house build, Dhupp.

Don't expect everything to flow perfectly, but 90% will end up ok in the end; enjoy! :)

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Originally Posted by Dead Metal

.....rather a long break for Ramadan ? :confused:

was rather looking forward to this build !

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Hey DM, thanks for the continued interest!! yeah...those Eid Celebrations really can go on a long time now that the hotels are involved with the free-flow everything blow-out buffets!!

Since i do not have much to say, I'm a firm believer in keeping quiet, hence the prolonged silence.

I'm still in Abu dhabi so i cannot oversee any work BUT....

(drum roll!)

... my contract just ended after 3 years + so unless another position miraculously appears in the next 8 days, i will be flying home to BKK ans we will crack on with that piling!!

Its still raining daily so we are unlikely to start the build proper until end Nov start december, but we have interviewed a number of builders for the stage 1 part of the job, and another couple of leads for this still to follow up too. wildly varying prices so i will do a bit of background research when i get back, looking at what the short list has already build and how the owners feel about it, etc.

Stick with me...once we got something to say, believe me... you wont be able to shut me up with text 'n' pic's!!

cheers for now

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Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Good luck with the house build, Dhupp.

Don't expect everything to flow perfectly, but 90% will end up ok in the end; enjoy! :)

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Thanks for your kind words BB, yeah sometimes you do wonder if it will all work out but i'm fairly optimistic in general, but with a healthy dose of cynicism thrown in for good measure

I have not forgotten the board or all those who have supported me so far - really been so heartening for such positive and encouraging comment and advice - im thankful....I will be back in Thailand soon so i can make a real start with the piling etc ready for building work to start at the end of the year.

As soon as i have something useful to say/show i will be back posting. until then, check in occasionally!!

thanks

...hope all is well ?

When do you think works will commence ?

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Originally Posted by Dead Metal

...hope all is well ?

When do you think works will commence ?

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Hi DM..yeah! all is well with us, except i am back in Dubai and Princess Joy is back in BKK! Not so bad tho - I'm getting a bit more cash (Dubai Museum of the Future, for anyone interested in my current 'day job' project), and she is finalising the builder we have settled on.