Thai Dhupp and Princess Joy's Thai House Build

[Slick]

Hi Norton...I have this already from when I was considering the 'solar option'!

What kind of Amperage or wattage draw will you be looking at?

[jonnyenglish]

One consideration about using piles on raised land is that the building(s) and any swimming pools and structures should be stable, but where other surfaces are placed directly on the unsettled raised earth, there will be movement.

My neighbour's house was built with deep piles, and has piles under the swimming pool, all good and solid, but all the paving and walkways connecting the house elements to the garden areas have now started to sink and actually crack and pull away from the main house structure, we are talking inches here, so quite a bit of settling going on, and very unsightly.

[Norton]

They say there is nothing they can do until the "head office" approves

As with anywhere in Thailand having friends in high places helps.

[Thai Dhupp]

Hi Norton...I have this already from when I was considering the 'solar option'!

What kind of Amperage or wattage draw will you be looking at?

Just read the rant and sounds like they are totally unhelpful up there...? Hope I don't get the same cos I think we need lots of juice. Good luck with yours...

I can't remember the figures as I did the survey over year and a half ago.. I remember tho that after the Initial stab at it, ( worst case scenario) I realised i had to put aside a sum of money to buy that adjacent plot so I construct a small CHP plant.. I will dig the spreadsheet out when I get the chance, but AC everywhere, fully equipped kitchen, pool (heating) lighting pumping,bath n shower heating tvs everywhere ditto internet n PCs, my photography lighting....the cinema...well... You get the idea

I will try n use a few low energy bulbs where I can tho, so that should help...
And I will reduce the coffee so that will cut the kettle draw..

[Slick]

^ Yep like Norton said check with the PEA - likely gonna need a 30(100) amp meter and thats pretty big just to drop in the middle of the jungle where most people typically only have 5(15) for their house and that supplies a couple lightbulbs, fans, tv, etc....

[Thai Dhupp]

One consideration about using piles on raised land is that the building(s) and any swimming pools and structures should be stable, but where other surfaces are placed directly on the unsettled raised earth, there will be movement.

My neighbour's house was built with deep piles, and has piles under the swimming pool, all good and solid, but all the paving and walkways connecting the house elements to the garden areas have now started to sink and actually crack and pull away from the main house structure, we are talking inches here, so quite a bit of settling going on, and very unsightly.

Yeah that's a good call Jonny, no plans for paths just yet, focussing on the build itself first. The paths and even the pool will follow when that ground is good and settled, and I have funds!! Less problem with roof runoff because we will harvest water so gutters will be fitted.

We have no plans to make this Free Willys retirement home so the pool itself will not be so deep, but there will be a waterfall and grotto, so as with everything, it will still need careful design n planning. To come...

[Norton]

First one was 4m for stage 1

Aprox how many m2?

[Thai Dhupp]

^ Yep like Norton said check with the PEA - likely gonna need a 30(100) amp meter and thats pretty big just to drop in the middle of the jungle where most people typically only have 5(15) for their house and that supplies a couple lightbulbs, fans, tv, etc....

Cheers Slick... So, how long have you been doing battle with the PEA?

[Norton]

Anyway, 52 piles at 6m, differing dimensions, placed, excavations carried out, cropping and pile cap cast....132k.you can all shoot me down, but...I did not think that was too bad?

Not a piles expert but sounds reasonable to me.

[Slick]

This current battle about 6 months and my first actual build here in Thailand was over 9 months of complete bullshit AFTER the house was complete. Would have been fine had I gone native with no aircon.

Another thing I remembered, the PEA don't really wanna do shit until you get the house book & address. Before that, its just the 8 baht per unit emergency/construction line. I can't see how they would beef up existing lines for a house thats "going to be built" but isn't there yet.

Anywho. Hopefully you have better luck & PEA people

[Thai Dhupp]

First one was 4m for stage 1

Aprox how many m2?

This is stage 1 - 120m per floor, 2 floors, kitchen, master wing, bedroom 2 + ensuite, stairs, office with en suite, Buddha room, WC, dining room. It's by far the largest of the three stages.

[Norton]

120m per floor,

So 240 m2 all in for 4mil? All in being material and labor. Works out to 17k/m2. Assuming the builder has done a quality home you can look at that sounds a fair price.

Just had lunch with a good builder friend Saturday and he said about 20k/m2 now for "western" quality build.

[Thai Dhupp]

120m per floor,

So 240 m2 all in for 4mil? All in being material and labor. Works out to 17k/m2. Assuming the builder has done a quality home you can look at that sounds a fair price.

Just had lunch with a good builder friend Saturday and he said about 20k/m2 now for "western" quality build.

Apart from the land raising ( already completed) and the piling. Say, 150k piling when those 'oops forgot to mention- sorry' items come to light. I want to be SURE that the piling is as good as possible and with those aforementioned longer piles to make a solid base - everything is supported by the piles so I don't want anyone cutting a corner to increase their margin!

I, still liking the idea of sourcing the materials myself though, for better quality/desirability and cost control.

Anyway let's get some of the other prices in and go through them all to arrive at the best option for us

[Norton]

I, still liking the idea of sourcing the materials myself though, for better quality/desirability and cost control

Your call but you will need to be there 24/7. Yes you will save some money as the builder will put a management percentage on material and labor. Quality can be managed before hand if you can be bothered to detail what you want. For example specific toilets, fixtures, tile etc.

If you have the time and energy to act as the project manager aka the big boss, go for it. I've built homes both ways. Admit was fun building with a labor crew but busy. Hey boss we need 3 more bags of cement and a bit more rebar.

[Slick]

Just had lunch with a good builder friend Saturday and he said about 20k/m2 now for "western" quality build.

Seen the same. Thats why I don't build here anymore. 200K US will get you a nice 2000 square foot house in FL. Insane to me to pay the same for a house in Thailand.

Unless of course one was to go down the day rate & buy all materials route - impossible to do if one isn't around all the time. Literally. This is how I built my first 2 homes here. 250/day for the Changs & 180/day for their wives lol. 300 or 350 possibly for the skilled guys - tile, electric, drywall, etc...

Edit, basically what Norton said.

[Thai Dhupp]

I, still liking the idea of sourcing the materials myself though, for better quality/desirability and cost control

Your call but you will need to be there 24/7. Yes you will save some money as the builder will put a management percentage on material and labor. Quality can be managed before hand if you can be bothered to detail what you want. For example specific toilets, fixtures, tile etc.

If you have the time and energy to act as the project manager aka the big boss, go for it. I've built homes both ways. Admit was fun building with a labor crew but busy. Hey boss we need 3 more bags of cement and a bit more rebar.

It's up for consideration when we get both the quotes from the same builder. I have a good idea about some specifics, Norton but not all. Last time we were back, in May we did some research on availability of building materials nearby.. I'm happy to report there are several merchants reasonably close by, including no less than three concrete supply plants.

As I said right at the start, the main reason for delaying the start is because I want to be there all day every day. Might as well weigh up if it's worth total 24/7 hands on I'm the boss or whether I want to just prowl and critici.....praise them for a good job well done.

[Norton]

I'm happy to report there are several merchants reasonably close by

Always good to source locally. You will enjoy hanging with the boys everyday. Kinda fun and you will learn some construction Thai talk.

[Thai Dhupp]

One of the things swaying my mind at the moment is that mark up on materials and bought in services. Not saying they are all bad at this but I have now had a chance to compare two prices from that initial BOQ.

I said at the time the BOQ was crazy OTT and proceeded to detail specifics where he was clearly taking the piss.

No no says he.. That's the going rates and I won't find cheaper. He had an answer for everything.

So far...me n she 2, Mr.BOQ 0

Price check 1
Land raising...me 118k, BOQ 217k. difference 99k

Price check 2
Piling works...me 150k, Mr.BOQ 839k. Difference.. Omg it's a LOT

Maybe those are 'going rates'.... If you got more money than sense and never bother to check anything. If I had gone with BOQ, I would have already spent 1.06million before we even started to build anything! Again, I'm sure he's not typical and the 'milk the farang ' has surely come into play but...I'm wary of builders marking up now. Some of his other 'going rate' prices will be revealed as we get progressing so you can see where he was being totally crazy / greedy.

I'm definitely not any sort of control freak BUT I do believe in controlling costs.. It's the areas that can spiral upwards very quickly if it's not checked and balanced.

[Thai Dhupp]

I'm happy to report there are several merchants reasonably close by

Always good to source locally. You will enjoy hanging with the boys everyday. Kinda fun and you will learn some construction Thai talk.

Norton, I can teach them some amazing Middle East construction phrases, and even some cutting edge practises too. When I say 'cutting edge', I mean 'sharp'...

[Slick]

He had an answer for everything.

They always do, and I don't know about anyone else, but the locals always have a 'tell' to me. This extremely friendly speech, but body language is way different. They get long winded & when asked a direct question (they don't seem to like) they wordsmith around the point without answering.

Be careful anyway and if you can be there, I would control anything and everything you can. I would go in with the labor quote & be on standby at all times to make runs to the local shop.

Dunno if its been mentioned yet, but the local building supply merchants work on credit & delivery. If you stay on top of materials, you can order the day before, and it'll be delivered on credit the next day. Cement, rebar, steel, sand, stone, blocks, all that good shit. Its really not all that hard or difficult to manage in the beginning, but once it gets to the finishing stages, it all comes together at once. By that time anyway, you will have already picked out & purchased all your finish items. Sinks, tile, faucets, toilets.... All that jazz.

Its quite convenient. You don't have to go get much unless they need an emergency 5 bags of cement at the end of the day.

Same with concrete trucks. Call yourself & they deliver. Pay after delivery. Order by square meter.

[Norton]

He had an answer for everything.

Any builder who has an answer for everything even when it's bs should immediately be discarded.
You are approaching this the right way. As you are doing, tally up a should cost based on shopping around for material. Based on that easy enough to decide if the qoute is reasonable.

[Thai Dhupp]

He had an answer for everything.

They always do, and I don't know about anyone else, but the locals always have a 'tell' to me. This extremely friendly speech, but body language is way different. They get long winded & when asked a direct question (they don't seem to like) they wordsmith around the point without answering.

Be careful anyway and if you can be there, I would control anything and everything you can. I would go in with the labor quote & be on standby at all times to make runs to the local shop.

Dunno if its been mentioned yet, but the local building supply merchants work on credit & delivery. If you stay on top of materials, you can order the day before, and it'll be delivered on credit the next day. Cement, rebar, steel, sand, stone, blocks, all that good shit. Its really not all that hard or difficult to manage in the beginning, but once it gets to the finishing stages, it all comes together at once. By that time anyway, you will have already picked out & purchased all your finish items. Sinks, tile, faucets, toilets.... All that jazz.

Its quite convenient. You don't have to go get much unless they need an emergency 5 bags of cement at the end of the day.

Same with concrete trucks. Call yourself & they deliver. Pay after delivery. Order by square meter.

Thanks for the info Slick, no I was not aware how far the credit could be extended and that will be very useful.

I delayed the build start exactly because I intend to be on site for the whole time they are working ... I tend to agree with you about controlling everything, based on the BOQ prices. Maan...I bet he's kicking himself for sending me that fully populated BOQ document now!! But..thanks all the same!

PJ can drive too so we have options for controlling and collecting stuff at the same time thinking about it, she can stay, she's more scary than me....

[Slick]

I was not aware how far the credit could be extended and that will be very useful.

Quite far honestly. We've gotten up over 60k baht (2 or 3 deliveries) without paying & they start calling. Account was/is under the wifes father kinda. Your wife will without a doubt be able to setup the same. They deliver on 6 wheel trucks. Sand on the bottom & everything stacked on top + hands to offload where you want it. All included.

This is exactly the same you would be paying a 'contractor' for. Only difference is that you're the one thats calling & arranging the delivery. No middle man.

Im talking about the local shops btw. Not homepro type shops.

[Thai Dhupp]

He had an answer for everything.

Any builder who has an answer for everything even when it's bs should immediately be discarded. .

He has been.

Funny thing though...at the time he was all ' well, that's the price take or leave it you won't find it cheaper, blah blah'. I said thanks no thanks and good bye.

Since then he's called PJ several times asking if we got any one, started doing anything. Etc..

Apparently he sounded a bit panicky when she told him we already did the land raising and agreed for the piling ...and we were shortlisting building teams quoting way less than his 'going rate' quote

[David48atTD]

Its quite convenient. You don't have to go get much unless they need an emergency 5 bags of cement at the end of the day.

Same with concrete trucks. Call yourself & they deliver. Pay after delivery. Order by square meter.

Did you ever slump test the concrete?

Or were happy to go with the Thai Style?
Implying that a typical Thai mix has a higher initial water content.
.