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    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    Australian History



    A perspective, factual in part, opinion in others.

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    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Speaking of Australian history though, this seems to have almost completely flown under the radar but...

    Remember the outrage and cries of cultural vandalism when the Taliban dynamited the 1,700 year old Buddhas of Bamiyan statues or ISIS destroying of thousand year-old Palmyran temples and statues by ISIS? Well last Sunday Rio Tinto blasted away a 46,000 year old aboriginal site, the Juukan Gorge cave, source of some of the most unique and priceless artefacts in Australian archeological history, 'the only inland site showing signs of continual human occupation through the last ice age'.

    Rio Tinto destroyed this site to expand an iron ore mine and... Well pretty much nothing.

    Rio Tinto blasts 46,000-year-old Aboriginal site to expand iron ore mine | Indigenous Australians | The Guardian

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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Remember the outrage and cries of cultural vandalism when the Taliban dynamited the 1,700 year old Buddhas of Bamiyan statues or ISIS destroying of thousand year-old Palmyran temples and statues by ISIS? Well last Sunday Rio Tinto blasted away a 46,000 year old aboriginal site, the Juukan Gorge cave, source of some of the most unique and priceless artefacts in Australian archeological history, 'the only inland site showing signs of continual human occupation through the last ice age'.

    Rio Tinto destroyed this site to expand an iron ore mine and... Well pretty much nothing.
    ...the US and NATO subsequently droned, bombed and maimed the Taliban, forcing them (temporarily) back into Pakistan...I assume you want that outcome for Rio Tinto as well though I doubt the CEO speaks Urdu...

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    ความรู้ลึกลับ HuangLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Speaking of Australian history though, this seems to have almost completely flown under the radar but...

    Remember the outrage and cries of cultural vandalism when the Taliban dynamited the 1,700 year old Buddhas of Bamiyan statues or ISIS destroying of thousand year-old Palmyran temples and statues by ISIS? Well last Sunday Rio Tinto blasted away a 46,000 year old aboriginal site, the Juukan Gorge cave, source of some of the most unique and priceless artefacts in Australian archeological history, 'the only inland site showing signs of continual human occupation through the last ice age'.

    Rio Tinto destroyed this site to expand an iron ore mine and... Well pretty much nothing.

    Rio Tinto blasts 46,000-year-old Aboriginal site to expand iron ore mine | Indigenous Australians | The Guardian

    Such a shame.

    Not considered Occidental in nature, therefore can't be worthy of historical perspective.
    Last edited by HuangLao; 27-05-2020 at 01:09 PM.

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    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat
    ...the US and NATO subsequently droned, bombed and maimed the Taliban, forcing them (temporarily) back into Pakistan...I assume you want that outcome for Rio Tinto as well though I doubt the CEO speaks Urdu...
    It's just a stark contrast is alls really.

    On the one hand called 'unforgivable barbarianism' and on the other doubtless dismissed as 'the progress / price of capitalism' -- yet the effect on priceless and irreplaceable history and artifacts is exactly the same.

    Hard to imagine this being allowed in any other allegedly civilised country, but here we are.

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    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    It's the hypocrisy of the chauvinistic "West".

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    In the news last week, Australia's Tasmanian Tiger

    'Precious' footage from 1935 of last-known Tasmanian tiger released
    CNN
    May 19, 2020

    (CNN)Video footage of the last known thylacine, or Tasmanian tiger, has been released by the National Film and Sound Archive of Australia (NFSA).
    In the 21-second clip the animal, named Benjamin, is prowling around his cage at Beaumaris Zoo in Hobart, Tasmania, according to a press release.
    The footage, released Tuesday, was filmed in 1935 for a travelogue called "Tasmania The Wonderland," just a few months before Benjamin passed away.



    Thylacines were large carnivorous marsupials that looked like a cross between a wolf, a fox, and a large cat. They hunted kangaroos and other marsupials as well as rodents and small birds, according to the Australian Museum.
    Benjamin was the last known thylacine in captivity and these are the last confirmed moving images of the species. His death on September 7 1936 is thought to have marked the extinction of the species after another specimen died at London Zoo in 1931.


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    Restoring trophic pyramids for top predators has been popular with conservationists for decades. It’s nature at work, often stymied by agriculture.
    Gradually overcome when species re-introduction improves the quality and natural essence of lost harmony.

    Eurasian beaver - Wikipedia

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    The Sacking of Gough Whitlam and the Royal Intention Behind the Five Eyes

    Australian History-22-whitlam-obit-articlelarge-jpg



    "An important reckoning with a great historical injustice is underway in Australia which presents the world with a rare opportunity to look into the darker corners of the corridors of power too often ignored by even the most ardent truth seekers among us.
    This reckoning has taken the form of a four-year, hard fought legal battle which a lone crowd funded Australian historian named Jenny Hocking waged in the highest courts of her nation to win the right on May 30, 2020 to make 211 secret letters held within Australia’s National Archives public for the first time since they were deposited in 1978.

    These palace letters were written between the Queen of England (via her personal secretary) and her Governor General in Australia Sir Philip Kerr during the latter’s tenure as official Head of State during the interim of 1974-1978 and until last week’s court ruling, were intended to be kept hidden until December 8, 2037.


    What makes these letters such a point of national controversy is that they contain information which will undoubtedly shed light upon the active role of the Queen herself in carrying out an act which essentially amounted to a modern coup d’état of November 11, 1975. During this sad period, Kerr made history by not only sacking the elected Prime Minister Gough Whitlam, but also revealed the scope and nature of the British Monarchy’s very real powers in our modern age.


    These are bizarre god-like prerogative powers which those forces controlling today’s globally extended empire would much rather keep concealed from public view.

    Gough Whitlam: An Intolerable Threat to the Empire

    It is admittedly difficult for some westerners to contemplate how a white Commonwealth prime minister could suffer a coup in our modern times… are not coups usually something reserved for Asiatic, Latin American, or African revolutionary leaders?


    When one looks upon a list of coups during the Cold War period, that has certainly tended to be the general rule… but like every rule, exceptions are always to be found.


    By reviewing the nature of Whitlam’s political struggle, his policy reforms and greater vision for Australia, it becomes clear what sort of enemy he made and why the highest powers of the Five Eyes and Global Empire ousted him.


    Before his December 2, 1972 victory, Gough Whitlam gave a brilliant speech which set him aside from the typical slavish pro-imperial stooges who tended to litter Australia’s political elite when he said in

    :


    “The decision we will make for our country on 2 December is a choice between the past and the future, between the habits and fears of the past, and the demands and opportunities of the future. There are moments in history when the whole fate and future of nations can be decided by a single decision. For Australia, this is such a time. It’s time for a new team, a new program, a new drive for equality of opportunities: it’s time to create new opportunities for Australians, time for a new vision of what we can achieve in this generation for our nation and the region in which we live. It’s time for a new government- a Labor Government.”


    Whitlam launched into his role as Prime Minister as a progressive juggernaut who revolutionized literally every aspect of Australian society, awakening a deep-seated yearning for true independence and taking on some of the largest power structures of the Anglo-American empire. Just to appreciate the scale of these reforms, let us review a few of them here.


    1- Days after his election, Whitlam began negotiations to establish full diplomatic relations with Mainland China, breaking off relations with Taiwan.


    2- Conscription which had forced thousands of young Australians to Vietnam was ended, Australia ended its participation in the war, imprisoned draft dodgers were released and the death penalty was abolished.


    3- A committee was created with the full backing of the federal government to enforce equal pay for men and women while free universities as well as free health insurance were begun.


    4- Whitlam began sanctioning Apartheid South Africa while banning all sports teams which practiced racial discrimination.


    5- Large scale urban renewal programs were launched extending modern sewage systems to all urban centers, while new roads, rail, electrification and flood prevention programs were built. Highways linked of Australia’s capitals for the first time and standard gauge rail was established to accelerate continental development strategies (whether Africa or Australia, the British Empire never permitted common rail gauges in order to prevent internal development while keeping its “possessions” reliant on maritime trade).


    6- On aboriginal rights, Whitlam tackled the injustices of colonialism by granting natives the right to own their traditional lands and granted independence to Papua New Guinea.


    7- Culturally, he kindled a sense of independence from British Imperial traditions by replacing God Save the Queen with a new national anthem and patronized a National Art Gallery.


    Standing up to the Five Eyes and Multinational Cartels


    Within the first weeks of 1973, Whitlam’s team soon discovered the insidious nature of the international Five Eyes intelligence organization and upon discovering the scope of MI6/CIA operations in Australia, ordered a crackdown on the Australian Security and Intelligence Organization (ASIO) on March 13, 1973 under the authority of Attorney General Lionel Murphy. In his June 1st report on Consortium News, investigative reporter John Pilger stated: “Gough Whitlam knew the risk he was taking. The day after his election, he ordered that his staff should no longer be “vetted or harassed” by the Australian security organisation, ASIO, which was then, as now, tied to Anglo-American intelligence.”


    In a 2014 report, Pilger made the point that Whitlam had received a secret telex message from William Shackly (head of the CIA’s East Asia division) calling him a “security threat” on November 10, 1975, and before he could make these facts known to the parliament the next day, Whitlam was promptly called into the Governor General’s office where he was promptly fired under royal decree.


    Whitlam’s most unforgivable of sins was the policy to “buy back the farm” to take back control of Australia’s resources- 62% of which were own by multinational cartels such as London’s Rio Tinto. Whitlam sought loans to buy Australia’s resources not from western banking sources in London or Wall Street but rather Middle Eastern nations who were awash in cash during the oil price increases of 1973-75. According to Minerals and Energy Minister Rex Connor, the loans were designed for 20 years and tied to large scale national development mega projects which would have extinguished the $4.5 billion of debt incurred. This process would have worked in a similar manner to the debt repayment process of FDR’s New Deal projects of the 1930s, JFK’s Apollo program of the 1960s or China’s Belt and Road Initiative of our modern age.


    Why the disclosure still may not happen


    In spite of the fact that the High Court ruled that the palace letters could now be accessed, the prerogative to follow the court’s orders is still left to the discretion of the head of the National Archives David Fricker- a strange character who has shown a decade of resistance to professor Hocking and even the High Court, telling ABC News: “We are not like a library or a museum.. I am required to diligently go through those things and just make sure that our release of these records is responsible, it’s ethical and it complies with the law.” Perhaps Fricker’s former job as Deputy Director of the ASIO may have something to do with this resistance.


    While Fricker and other opponents of the letters’ release make the claim that they are merely personal correspondences of a private nature, Sir Edward Young (Personal secretary to the Queen) has demonstrated this to be a fraud as he cried out that their declassification “could damage not only international relations but also the trusting relationship between Her Majesty and her representatives overseas”. How could benign “personal correspondences” do that?


    In a June 1st blog, Professor Hocking stated “It is surely an unusual position for the National Archives, which describes itself as a ‘pro-disclosure organisation’, to contest this action at significant expense – initially of almost one million dollars – at a time of severe budget and staff cuts”. She also made the point that “before lodging them in the Archives, the letters had been kept by Smith in the Government House ‘strong room under absolute security’ again in an official capacity, which scarcely suggested the letters were ‘personal’.”


    What does the Empire have to fear?


    The British Empire has worked very hard over the years to portray the image that the Crown is a benign symbol of conservative values without any real power and that the British Empire is a mere relic of the past. If anything critical is permitted to seep through the cracks of a squeeky clean veneer of austere traditional values, then Britain’s propagandists in the mainstream media and academia are sure to spin information in such a manner as to convey the idea that Britain is merely a second ringer to the real global villain: America.


    The true story of Whitlam’s sacking, and the Crown’s active hand as an invisible yet real force shaping world imperial policy (including the Five Eyes) is an uncomfortable fact which imperial strategists would prefer forever remain in the shadows.


    In the next segment of this story, we will delve more deeply into the real nature of the British Empire as a very active, very powerful, albeit (usually) very invisible force shaping current world affairs.:

    The Sacking of Gough Whitlam and the Royal Intention Behind the Five Eyes — Strategic Culture

    Will more exciting history from Australia follow or will the evidenc sudenly becomee illegable or the Australian historian named Jenny Hocking die "quietly in her sleep"?
    Last edited by OhOh; 14-06-2020 at 08:02 AM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    It's the hypocrisy of the chauvinistic "West".
    Paradoxically, what was the name of the smooth neckchocking officer?

    George Floyd murder suspect Derek Chauvin ...

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    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Good point. Also paradoxically, vin chaud has a lot of recipes


    A Traditional French Vin Chaud Recipe





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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    A Traditional French Vin Chaud Recipe
    Is there an Australian version?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Good point. Also paradoxically, vin chaud has a lot of recipes
    Not quite getting the "point" how the "Vin Chaud" conjugates with "Chauvinismus"...

    Chauvinism is a form of extreme patriotism and nationalism and a belief in national superiority and glory. It can also be defined as "an irrational belief in the superiority or dominance of one's own group or people".[1] Moreover, the chauvinist's own people are seen as unique and special while the rest of the people are considered weak or inferior.[1]

    According to legend, French soldier Nicolas Chauvin was badly wounded in the Napoleonic Wars. He received a pension for his injuries but it was not enough to live on. After Napoleon abdicated, Chauvin was a fanatical Bonapartist despite the unpopularity of this view in Bourbon Restoration France. His single-minded blind devotion to his cause, despite neglect by his faction and harassment by its enemies, started the use of the term.[2]

    Chauvinism has extended from its original use to include fanatical devotion and undue partiality to any group or cause to which one belongs, especially when such partisanship includes prejudice against or hostility toward outsiders or rival groups and persists even in the face of overwhelming opposition
    Chauvinism - Wikipedia

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    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Paradoxically, what was the name of the smooth neckchocking officer?

    George Floyd murder suspect Derek Chauvin ...
    Not quite getting your point of how that former Minneapolis police officer fits in with this thread on Australian history, klondyke.

    What exactly is the paradox that you see?

  15. #15
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    ^^ The point was that you're posting off-topic and using words you clearly don't understand yet again.



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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Speaking of Australian history though, this seems to have almost completely flown under the radar but...

    Remember the outrage and cries of cultural vandalism when the Taliban dynamited the 1,700 year old Buddhas of Bamiyan statues or ISIS destroying of thousand year-old Palmyran temples and statues by ISIS? Well last Sunday Rio Tinto blasted away a 46,000 year old aboriginal site, the Juukan Gorge cave, source of some of the most unique and priceless artefacts in Australian archeological history, 'the only inland site showing signs of continual human occupation through the last ice age'.

    Rio Tinto destroyed this site to expand an iron ore mine and... Well pretty much nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    It's just a stark contrast is alls really.

    On the one hand called 'unforgivable barbarianism' and on the other doubtless dismissed as 'the progress / price of capitalism' -- yet the effect on priceless and irreplaceable history and artifacts is exactly the same.

    Hard to imagine this being allowed in any other allegedly civilised country, but here we are.

    As someone who has worked in mining and had to deal with aboriginal heritage sites I can't really understand how this could have happened and someone i.e. senior management needs to get a bit more than a rocket for it. They should have had very robust (infallible) procedures in place to prevent such a thing occurring.

    However having said that there are some "sites" that are deemed by some people to be significant which are not.
    At the site I worked at I had a visit from the archaeologist who originally identified all the sites on the mine and he was of the opinion that out of the hundreds he had identified there were perhaps 3 that warranted further investigation. He said that those 3 should be the site of an approved "dig" to find and record all the relevant information but then they were not of such importance they would require preservation in the future.

    In case mentioned above I do however think that that particular site seems to have been more substantial and significant than any I dealt with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Is there an Australian version?
    Drink on the Cheap With Home-Brewed Vegemite Beer - Eater

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    Bit useless without the freaking recipe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Not quite getting your point of how that former Minneapolis police officer fits in with this thread on Australian history, klondyke.

    What exactly is the paradox that you see?
    I knew that my remarks will be "commented" by some...

    OK, for the ones who likes not to understand my poor English, you wrote it, didn't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    It's the hypocrisy of the chauvinistic "West".
    And that that's very fitting for the West, especially USA, "hypocrisy, chauvinisms, double standard".

    And paradoxically, the one who triggered the current turmoil is named Chauvin, same name the "chauvinism" come from. And what we are seeing now what resulting from all of this?

    Chauvinism (any twisting of the facts and of the meaning will be good for the political gain - we are exceptional...)

    Hypocrisy (take a knee! we show how we mean it good for all, give us the vote...)


    (However, who did not get my "point", no problem, can live without it...)

  20. #20
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    I knew that my remarks will be "commented" by some...
    It's a forum . . . are you THAT dense?

    Simple - you wrote something, yet again, that has nothing to do with the thread just to get another dig in at the US - you do that fairly well in every post and thread. THAT is the point. There are many threads concerning the US on here where you throw your shit - why not give it a rest on other threads

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    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    Well, that went a different direction

    Speaking of Australian History ...

    ---

    Rare stone ginger beer bottle from 1930s-era sells for record price


    Australian History-12353576-3x2-xlarge-jpg

    A rare ginger beer bottle from the 1930s, made for a Warwick soft drink company, has sold for a record price in Toowoomba.

    Key points:
    • Many Australian towns had a cordial company in the 1930s with unique bottles
    • The green glaze on the lip is what makes the Warwick bottle rare
    • People are still finding bottles on farms worth thousands of dollars


    It has collectors encouraging people to check their sheds and old farm dumps for possible 'buried treasure'.

    Rare stone ginger beer bottle from 1930s-era sells for record price - ABC News
    “Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago”

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    As I’m sure you are aware, the debate over modern day Australians, and the indigenous peoples of that wondrous land have been aired on here before.
    It will therefore come as no surprise that Terry has come down in favour of the modern australian, believing, as many do, that the indigenous peoples receive to many government favours, and tolerances due to their indigenous status.
    His view that money and allowances are wasted, because they are all dumb drunks who just piss it up against the wall.
    Dig a little deeper, and the reasons for this mistrust are plainly evident. It’s a bit like Brits living peacefully alongside ethnic minority groups.
    Despite your relatively short history, I would suggest there is still much to learn from the colourful history of your wonderful country.
    I am happy to engage in historic debates with anyone who will appreciate the rights and wrongs on both sides. As a member of our joint English speaking heritage, have at it.
    My last foray into this quagmire of opinion taught me much about the history of Australia and our modern day colonial cousins.

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    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    As a member of our joint English speaking heritage, have at it.
    Pfffffft!

    Ahem . . . as a supporter of calling the national day 'Invasion Day', I think my opinion is quite clear.

    Considering that aborigines make up roughly 2% of the population, with the percentage decreasing every year, they do receive far more funding per cap than others . . . but how can that make up for virtual enslavement since colonisation? It can't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    I would suggest there is still much to learn from the colourful history of your wonderful country.
    And it's changing slowly. It has been changing slowly, but surely. Just like one can't expect them to be pronounced equal simply by edict, one cannot expect them to stand on their own collective feet by the same definition.

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    Receiving many "thanking" messages re my conjunction of the infamous Derek Chauvin and Chauvinism in a thread about Australian history.

    I fully understand their concern about purity of the threads as it is here always emphasized. Mea culpa, I am not so good in "purifying" the treads with the vocabulary I am reading in many responses of honorable members, a vocabulary I have been failing to adopt...

    Anyway, it is no secret that chauvinism hasn't been unknown in Australia, (perhaps more than in USA) especially when welcoming the immigrants before and after WW2.

    Besides, there are many instances where about chauvinism in Australia can be read, seeing e.g.

    Australia’s prime minister is not the man he used to be
    Malcolm Turnbull used to champion immigration. Now it’s “Australia first”
    Yet since becoming prime minister two years ago, Mr Turnbull seems to have jettisoned many of his small-l views. The most obvious reversal concerns immigration. In 2013, when a government led by Labor, now the main opposition party, sought to curb temporary work visas, known as 457s, Mr Turnbull called the visas the “heart of skilled migration”; he dismissed as “chauvinistic rhetoric” claims that they robbed Australians of jobs.
    The vanishing liberal - Australia’s prime minister is not the man he used to be | Asia | The Economist

    Standing up against chauvinism
    Misogyny and chauvinism is alive and well in Australia, and this week Wayne Brooks saw it at its worst ― and took a stand.
    Standing up against chauvinism

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    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Australia’s prime minister is not the man he used to be
    Malcolm Turnbull used to champion immigration. Now it’s “Australia first”
    At least you're not behind the times

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