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  1. #1
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    The end of the EU?

    EU treaty to fix debt crisis fails

    EU treaty to fix debt crisis fails - Europe - Al Jazeera English

    Franco-German plans to get all 27 members to back EU treaty changes collapses as Britain rejects plans.
    Last Modified: 09 Dec 2011 04:27


    A bid to change the EU treaty to resolve the eurozone debt crisis foundered at a crunch summit in Brussels on Friday on a British refusal to sign up without major concessions in return.
    The key item on the agenda was a Franco-German plan on a tighter fiscal controls with automatic penalties for eurozone nations that overspend.

    Reports say Berlin and Paris failed to secure backing from all 27 EU members to change the bloc's treaties to proceed with reforms.
    Any deal will now likely involve only the 17 eurozone members.

    Al Jazeera's Tim Friend reporting from Brussels says "Its now pretty clear, they have been unable to reach a concensus amongst the 27 EU members, so they might now carve an agreement amongst the 17 nation eurozone members."

    With the euro already down against the dollar and stocks hit hard from New York to Tokyo, Prime Minister Donald Tusk of current EU chair Poland had warned beforehand that failure to convince Britain to sign up would mean the "coffin" for a post WWII EU integration.

    The summit in Brussels was undermined early on Thursday by a European Central Bank (ECB) warning that there will be no big boost in rescue funding.
    On Thursday, leaders took tentative steps to implement a so-called "golden rule" asking countries to set balanced budgets until debt levels drop, although this was only agreed "in principle" with political wriggle room remaining, diplomats said.

    Difficult talks running overnight began on a sour note when ECB president Mario Draghi, who joined pre-summit negotiations with a restricted power group of Germany, France and leading EU officials, sent stock markets falling.

    Draghi said hoped-for ECB action to buy up the sovereign bonds of debt-wracked countries was "limited" and "temporary".

    Over the past two years, bond traders have driven up borrowing costs for a succession of eurozone countries.

    Markets have been looking to see how European Union leaders would come up with a promised trillion-euro emergency firewall to save Italy or Spain if sucked in like Greece and others beforehand.



    full article at the link above

  2. #2
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    EU leaders agree fiscal pact, falter on treaty change

    WRAPUP 1-EU leaders agree fiscal pact, falter on treaty change | Reuters

    Thu Dec 8, 2011 10:53pm EST


    BRUSSELS, Dec 9 (Reuters) - European Union leaders sealed a new fiscal pact ensuring tougher budget discipline but failed to agree on a treaty change to enshrine the rules, meaning a deal may now involve the 17 euro zone nations plus any others that want to join, diplomats said.

    An agreement involving all 27 EU members fell through - raising the prospect of a two-speed Europe - after British Prime Minister David Cameron demanded concessions that Germany and France were not willing to give, one of the officials said.

    "We've always said we would do it at 17 if it didn't work at 27. That's what happened," one senior EU diplomat told Reuters.

    The EU leaders, meeting in Brussels, agreed on automatic sanctions for euro area deficit offenders unless three-quarters of states vote against the move, and approved a new fiscal rule on balanced budgets to be written into national constitutions.

    "There is a deal between leaders on the new fiscal compact," an EU official told reporters.

    After nearly 10 hours of talks running into the early hours of Friday morning, they also decided that the currency bloc's future permanent bailout fund, the ESM, would be capped at 500 billion euros, as Germany had insisted.

    It will also not get a banking licence, which would have allowed it to draw on European Central Bank funds to increase its firepower, another move Germany objected to.

    As soon as the draft summit agreement leaked late on Thursday, a senior German official rejected key measures including letting the future rescue fund, the European Stability Mechanism, operate as a bank, and a long-term goal of issuing common euro zone bonds.

    Shares and commodities fell, while the euro remained under pressure, on growing doubts that Europe could forge a credible plan to solve the euro zone's debt crisis.

    European Council President Herman Van Rompuy, the summit chairman, wanted all 27 EU states to agree to the rule changes via a minor adjustment to a treaty protocol that could be implemented quickly without requiring full ratification.

    But German Chancellor Angela Merkel demanded a fully fledged treaty change to give the measures extra weight.

    Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy had said that if all 27 EU states did not support more fiscal union by adapting the existing Lisbon treaty, which took eight years to negotiate, then the 17 euro zone countries should press on alone with more integration.

    The danger for Cameron is that if a large majority of EU countries do push ahead with deeper integration, it could involve discussions over changes to the single market and financial regulation, both of which could have a profound impact on the British economy.

    "Cameron was clumsy in his manoeuvering," another senior EU diplomat said. Efforts continued to get the British to shift their position.


    full article at link above

  3. #3
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    "Cameron was clumsy in his manoeuvering," another unelected EU jobsworth said.
    Fixed that for you.

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    Efforts continued to get the British to shift their position.
    This morning Britain still 34 kms off the French coast.

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    BOSTON (MarketWatch) — If you want to understand the latest Franco-German proposal to “save” the euro, imagine this.




    Imagine the governments of China and Japan demanding they be given the legal right to override the U.S. budget’s legislative process if needed, and to impose tax hikes and spending cuts on the American people as needed.

    After all, China and Japan are our biggest creditors. The U.S. government owes them trillions. We’re not quite as deeply in debt as a share of our economic output, as Europe’s naughtiest Nellies. But we’re not far behind either.

    Markets rallied this week on hopes that the leaders of the European Union will at long last solve the region’s budget crisis. Center stage is the new proposal from Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy. They want to turn Europe into, effectively, a federal government, with the power to impose budget discipline on wayward members.

    Their proposal is preposterous. Anything can happen in this life, but it would be remarkable indeed if this idea got off the ground. Anyone pinning their hopes that this will solve the crisis needs to think it through.

    Why would the Portuguese accept the right of Germany to impose budget cuts on their country? Why would the Greeks?

    Would we accept that role for the Chinese and the Japanese, the biggest holders of Treasury debt? How would you feel if you opened the paper to be told that the new Sino-Japanese “Fiscal Stability Commission” in Washington had just slashed your grandma’s Social Security checks by one-third, scaled back federal highway repairs, and that it would impose a 10% national sales tax?

    That is, after all, effectively what is being offered to the people of Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland.

    It’s absurd. There is no reason why these countries should have to surrender sovereignty. They can simply, where necessary, default. A default by, say, Louisiana would not destroy the dollar. Neither did the bankruptcy of Enron or Lehman.

    The British look smarter and smarter for staying out of the euro area in the first place. Prime Minister John Major, and then, later, Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown, each took the decision to keep the British pound free. At the time fashionable opinion predicted disaster for the Brits. So much for that.

    (Predictably, fashionable opinion now says the Brits look “isolated” for staying out. Really, you couldn’t make it up).

    It has long been clear the Franco-German duo wanted to use their shared currency to bludgeon the continent into something closer to a federal system.

    Any investor pinning their hopes on this bird flying needs to be aware it looks a lot more like a turkey than an eagle.

    This week’s meeting of European leaders already marks the fifth “summit” to solve the region’s debt crisis since early 2009.

    My favorite comment this time: “After a series of ‘final’ summits, it would be nice this time to have a real ‘final’ summit.” That was from Standard & Poor’s chief European economist, appropriately-enough named Jean-Michel Six. What’s the betting Mr. Six will be attending Summit No. Six in the new year?
    Brett Arends is a senior columnist for MarketWatch and a personal-finance columnist for the Wall Street Journal.

  6. #6
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    Merkozy is dreaming, it was a losing battle from the beginning

    between the treacherous British (which we should kick out of the EU for good measure) and the dodgy members (PIGS), it was too ambitious to achieve

    by stirring the pot to fix things, Merkozy is actually stirring the shit and making the market nervous

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    between the treacherous British (which we should kick out of the EU for good measure)
    Which 'we' are you referring to butters? Do the Belgians not have a vote?

    Yes, please kick the nasty British out of the EU money pit. It will save them the cost of a referendum. hahahahahahahahah

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    This is just a small hick-up in the development of the Euro.
    They have to solve the insolvency of some countries, but in essence, the Euro is a strong and trusted currency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui
    Yes, please kick the nasty British out of the EU money pit. It will save them the cost of a referendum. hahahahahahahahah
    the truth is that nobody wants you in the EU, so I guess you have more in common with EU members than you thought

    useless Brits, may your island sink with the Euro tunnel

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    I think the problem is that no-one wants the loathsome krauts or the back-stabbing frogs running Europe. European Union my arse.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    the truth is that nobody wants you in the EU
    Wish granted. I left before homosexuality became compulsory.



    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    so I guess you have more in common with EU members than you thought
    Apart from giving the French a bloody nose on a regular basis, the saving their cowardly ass a few times, we actually have very little in common. The fact that most of our own mistakes were self inflicted is pretty much our only common ground.
    Even Mr pink fluffy Cameron isn't going to be bullied by a fag dwarf and a kraut hippo in the corner.

    So, do Belgian defectives get a say in this debacle of junior political histrionics or not?
    Heart of Gold and a Knob of butter.

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    Can't we motivate the Septics to bomb Europe? I'm sick and tired of the Kraut and the Frog on TV babbling on and on and on and on....

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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    The British look smarter and smarter for staying out of the euro area in the first place. Prime Minister John Major, and then, later, Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown, each took the decision to keep the British pound free.
    ... Brown was not opposed to the UK joining the Euro in principle, he just made it conditional, arguably because he could see that there has never been a majority UK population in support of it, and it was a good mechanism for uniting his party.

    The way things are sounding, the EU is heading more and more towards becoming something more healthy, like EFTA, with more bilateralism due to unresolvable red-line issues for member states. It's surely obvious now how incompatible some of the economies are, any attempt to weld them together seems like a cut and shut. What good is a Seat, Fiat, and Renault, welded to a Mercedes? It just ruins a Mercedes.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1F2i0rYMj8

    we are all figments of our own imagination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui
    Even Mr pink fluffy Cameron isn't going to be bullied by a fag dwarf and a kraut hippo in the corner.
    the fool Cameron is just your typical Brit princess, whining and crying on TV for attention. He is the new Diana.

    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
    I think the problem is that no-one wants the loathsome krauts or the back-stabbing frogs running Europe.
    that's why you English fucks kept knocking on our door to let you in. The truth is that the EU was created by the French and the German, so fucking deal with it and eat our shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFree
    Can't we motivate the Septics to bomb Europe?
    No. The US needs to get its experts and culture from somewhere.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
    I think the problem is that no-one wants the loathsome krauts or the back-stabbing frogs running Europe.
    that's why you English fucks kept knocking on our door to let you in. The truth is that the EU was created by the French and the German, so fucking deal with it and eat our shit.
    You must be kidding. We told you your euro was a shit idea, and you didn't believe us. And then you try and steamroller over the rest of the EU to clean up the mess you made and thankfully Britain is there, on behalf of the rest of Europe, to tell you to fuck off.


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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
    And then you try and steamroller over the rest of the EU to clean up the mess you made and thankfully Britain is there, on behalf of the rest of Europe, to tell you to fuck off.
    and then you woke up, all wet in your pants

    Britain is completely isolated, read the news, there is an agreement, only Poland and the UK are alone.

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    LONDON—The U.K.'s veto of a European Union-wide solution to the region's problems could leave Britain isolated from the Continent and triggered a fresh round of questions about its historically awkward relationship with Europe.

    U.K. Veto of EU Plan Could Isolate Britain - WSJ.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    The truth is that the EU was created by the French and the German,
    And now you have the perfect excuse to blame the disintegration of the EU on Cameron.

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    I really don't understand what the UK is doing in the EU

    it's not even on the mainland, that alone should be a disqualifier

    the UK should remain the UK, isolated, far, and a remote island full of funny and strange people

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    For a completely unbiased view read :



    Bye Bye Britain: The European Union's New Face - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

    "The European Union on Thursday night dropped the hypocrisy. No longer is harmony the overriding goal. That, though, means that Great Britain may no longer have a place at the table. London must decide whether it wants to remain part of Europe or not."

    Continues in a more unbalanced way.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  22. #22
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    Britain alone in opposing EU treaty changes

    Britain alone in opposing EU treaty changes - Europe - Al Jazeera English

    While all other 26 EU members united after marathon talks, premier Cameron argues he is protecting national interests.
    Last Modified: 09 Dec 2011 16:24

    The European Union has said that 26 of its 27 member countries are open to joining a new treaty tying their finances together to solve the euro crisis. Only Britain remains opposed, creating a deep rift in the union.

    In marathon overnight talks, the 17 countries that use the euro gradually persuaded nearly all the others to consider joining the new treaty they would create. Some of those countries may face parliamentary opposition to the treaty, which would allow for unprecedented oversight of national budgets.

    "Except for one, all are considering participation," EU President Herman Van Rompuy told reporters after the summit ended. "I'm optimistic because I know it is going to be very close to 27."

    A document released near the end of a high-stakes EU summit on Friday said the leaders of nine of the 10 EU countries that don't use the euro "indicated the possibility to take part in this process after consulting their parliaments where appropriate."


    full article at the link above

  23. #23
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    From the above article:

    Cameron has vowed to protect the City of London, with France and Germany leading EU moves to impose a financial transactions tax which the British prime minister says would hit the UK the hardest.

    So the UK is opposed to taxes being levied on the same greedy bankers who got the world into this mess in the first place?



    The financial transaction tax is discussed here:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/07/bu...s.html?_r=2&hp

    Driven by populist anger at bankers as well as government needs for more revenue, the idea of a tax on trades of stocks, bonds and other financial instruments has attracted an array of influential champions, including the leaders of France and Germany, the billionaire philanthropists Bill Gates and George Soros, former Vice President Al Gore, the consumer activist Ralph Nader, Pope Benedict XVI and the archbishop of Canterbury.

    “We all agree that a financial transaction tax would be the right signal to show that we have understood that financial markets have to contribute their share to the recovery of economies,” the chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel, told her Parliament recently.

  24. #24
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    The stupid cow would be right, except if it doesn't apply to other markets, it's pointless.

    Basically Britain doesn't need to be told what to do by the squareheads and the frogs, if the rest want Merkozy spanking them every time they are naughty, they are welcome to it.

    As far as I'm concerned the gallic dwarf and the fat kraut slag can take a running jump.

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    @ HB: The quality of your input is poor. "stupid cow", "squareheads"", "frogs", "dwarf", "fat kraut slag"... I just fail to see how this add to the discussion in a constructive way.
    Where does all your anger come from?

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