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  1. #1
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    Eurozone: Who owes what?

    This is quite disturbing. Click in the Irish sector of the circle and look how much they owe per person!

    BBC News - Eurozone debt web: Who owes what to whom?

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    NOBODY could have seen THIS coming... so not-bankster-engineered, so random & accidental... NOT!

    Problem > Reaction > SOLUTION... the latter having been the long-term agenda through the whole engineered process, of course.


    Saturday, November 19, 2011

    EU CHIEF: THE TIME HAS COME FOR A FEDERAL EUROPE


    By Emily Fox for express.co.uk


    A HUGE European superstate is the only solution to the economic crisis engulfing the continent, the President of the European Commission declared today.

    Jose Manuel Barroso claimed the fate of the euro and European Union were intertwined and that the only answer to the growing threat of collapse was a massive Federal Europe.

    As the crisis in Greece deepened Mr Barroso told the European Parliament: "We are confronted with the most serious challenge of a generation.

    "What we need now is a new, unifying impulse, a new federalist moment - let's not be afraid to use the word.

    "The right way to stop the negative cycle and strengthen the euro is to deepen integration, mainly in the euro area. This is the way to go."

    He even claimed the crisis was "a fight".

    "This is a fight for the jobs and prosperity of families in all our member states.

    What we need now is a new, unifying impulse, a new federalist moment - let's not be afraid to use the word

    "This is a fight for the economic and political future of Europe.

    "This is a fight for what Europe represents in the world. This is a fight for European integration itself," he added.

    His outrageous land grab comes as two French Banks were downgraded by Moody's, one of the big three credit agencies, due to their exposure to the Greek debt.

    He said the big problem was that new rules governing the running of the euro area had been agreed but not fully implemented by the euro-zone countries.

    Barroso added: "In the cacophony of criticisms, counter-criticisms, magic bullets and miracle panaceas that are proposed on a daily basis, the truth has been drowned out - that solid, feasible and concrete proposals have been made. That they have been agreed upon. But they have taken too long and have not yet been fully delivered.

  3. #3
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    Fuck off. I'm not paying for lazy, thieving Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians, Italians.

    Fuck 'em.

  4. #4
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    This superstate as it is called has been the agenda for some time. This engineered crisis is just the mechanics to force it through. NWO, call it what you want. The name changes put the few people at the top are still the same.

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    The Euro and the EU aren't intertwined. That's what they would have you believe. Utter BS.

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    they still insist on
    all for one and one for all.
    so romantic.
    Germany pulling the strings AGAIN.

  7. #7
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    ^ While in Germany the majority would prefer to leave the Euro and probably the EU too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones View Post
    This superstate as it is called has been the agenda for some time. This engineered crisis is just the mechanics to force it through. NWO, call it what you want. The name changes put the few people at the top are still the same.
    Yep, what I suggested above in different words.

    You want to get to know the NWO's "invisible hand" organization in the UK? Search " 'Common Purpose' Brian Gerrish " -- he tells the story so everyman can understand,


    Uploaded by DefendYourFreedom on Jan 25, 2010
    Brian Gerrish appearing on Edge Media TV. Please follow the links below for more information on the subject.

    Click here for the official Common Purpose website
    Common Purpose International - Leadership Development - Home

    Click here for the Common Purpose Exposed website
    Common Purpose Exposed - cpexposed.com

    Click here for the Stop Common Purpose website
    Common Purpose - Stop Common Purpose - Communitarian - NWO Agenda 21

    Click here for the British Constitution Group
    https://www.thebcgroup.org.uk/

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    ^ I noticed the later parts of that Brian Gerrish interview above were difficult to find- here's the full interview in one part - 48 mins



    many more good video interviews from him too, besides his websites listed above, just search as I said above. Here's one where he's guest on Alex Jones' radio show,


  10. #10
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    I wrote here not that long ago I couldn't understand why people were making a big stink of Greece debt. Greece is a pimple on a elephants ass, a small country with a relatively small economy, that produces next to nothing. There are other European countries with much bigger economies that are in worse shape and up to their eyebrows (unibrows for the meds) like France, Britain, Spain, and Italy. The average debt per person in the UK and France are huge, I didn't think it was that big. It just goes to show you how much the average guy on the street benefited from the abundance of cheap credit the last decade. People who should have been lviing like pissants were liviing high on the hog. They were buying homes and cars they couldn't afford, going on vacations using plastic, going out to eat all the time, investing in businesses they knew fuck all about, etc. That is why I don't put all the blame on the bankers like the majority. The banks were just doing what they've done for centuries, loaning money at a rate of interest. It was the average people who were running up their bills and living way above their means....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Fuck off. I'm not paying for lazy, thieving Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians, Italians.

    Fuck 'em.
    thanks for leaving me out of that tirade.

    Any chance of a loan of a few quid, need a new horse for mi ma.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Fuck off. I'm not paying for lazy, thieving Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians, Italians.

    Fuck 'em.
    Thanks for leaving the Irish out of that rant Harry. By the way any chance of a loan of a few quid? I will pay you back within a generation or two.

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    So who the hell would keep loaning out money to Ireland? How the he'll will it ever get from under that debt. Could that be an error?

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    "Although the US's overseas debt almost equates to its annual GDP, it is still regarded as a safe bet."
    just like mortgage backed securities where

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs
    There are other European countries with much bigger economies that are in worse shape and up to their eyebrows (unibrows for the meds) like France, Britain, Spain, and Italy. The average debt per person in the UK and France are huge, I didn't think it was that big.
    again, like many, you are making the simplistic mistake of using the wrong statistics measure to understand the level of debt a country,

    GDP to Debt is completely irrelevant, what is more important is GDP to Interest Payments in terms of risk valuation

    also the debt per person we keep hearing about in the press is complete BS, it's a simpleton measure for journalists so they can make their story more dramatic

    in the meantime the real credit risk are not being properly valued and it creates over reaction in markets in all direction, like a firecracker in a chicken house

    S&P completely fucked up with the US long term outlook downgrade, they had no material evidence to make such a call, it was basically an "unjustified" opinion

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    actually a better measure would be Tax Revenues to Coupon Interest Payments

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    What's happening now in the EU, US, West generally, has been long planned/conspired. In usury-based economies like the West's, like a mathematical equation, the banksters eventually end up owning everything, and the populace nothing.

    The endgame is in play now, where the banksters, after orchestrating the controlled demolitions of the West's economies & deliberate impoverishment of all classes below their elites, then orchestrate the end of national sovereignty in favor of regional govt's (a "federal" EU), to be eventually morphed into a single world gov't-- this is destined to be the UN, controlled by the same global, trans-generational crime/loan-sharking gang: the banksters who are the "invisible government" now.

    Also watch for the eventual end of the institution of private property... see "UN Agenda 21".

    More from UK patriot Brian Gerrish, and a short primer video on Agenda 21:



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    good one summarizing many recent articles:


    Out Of The Ashes Of The Collapse Of The Eurozone Will A "United States Of Europe" Arise?




    All over Europe, headlines are declaring that the eurozone is on the verge of collapse. Many people falsely assume that this will mean the end of the euro and a return to national currencies. Unfortunately, that is not going to be the case at all. Instead, this is going to be yet another example of how the elite attempt to bring order out of chaos. The European elite have no intention on giving up on a united Europe. Rather, they hope to be able to bring to life a new "United States of Europe" out of the ashes of the existing eurozone. Over the coming months we will see widespread panic and fear all across Europe. The euro will likely sink like a rock and there will probably be huge financial problems in Europe and all around the globe. But for the European elite, a great crisis like this represents a golden opportunity to tear down the existing structures and build new ones. The solution that the European elite will be pushing will not be to go back to the way that Europe used to be. Instead, they will be pushing the idea of a much more tightly integrated Europe really hard.


    Of course it will not be called "the United States of Europe", but that is definitely what they have in mind.


    But they know that the people of Europe will never go for this solution unless they feel enough fear and pain first.


    Right now, the stage is being set for the coming financial crisis in Europe. All over the EU, media outlets are priming Europeans to expect the worst. For example, the following comes from an article in the Telegraph....
    The collapse of the eurozone would cause a crash that would instantly wipe out half of the value of Europe’s economy, plunging the continent into a depression as deep as the 1930s slump, the president of the European Commission has warned.
    Some newspapers are even warning that a financial "armageddon" is coming. Just check out the following excerpt from an article in the Express....
    PREPARATIONS were under way last night for the break-up of the euro as Europe’s debt crisis spiralled out of control.
    As Treasury officials worked through the night to soften the impact on Britain, David Cameron warned that the single European currency was facing its “moment of truth”.
    Business Secretary Vince Cable went further and spoke about “Armageddon” while Brussels officials warned that the chaos threatened to plunge us all into a new recession.
    If you can believe it, many among the European elite may actually be looking forward to the collapse of the current eurozone structure.


    Why?


    Well, it will give them the opportunity to implement something new.


    A financial crisis is only temporary, but many among the European elite believe that they can build a "new Europe" which will last for ages.


    News outlets all over Europe are already reporting on rumors that French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel have been "secretly plotting" to create a "new eurozone" that will exclude some of the weaker nations such as Greece and Italy.
    For instance, the following is from an article that just came out in the Telegraph....
    France is drawing up plans to create a breakaway organisation of eurozone countries with its own treaty, parliament and headquarters – a move that could significantly undermine the existing European Union.
    That same article in the Telegraph is also already preparing readers to accept that the ultimate solution to the coming financial crisis will be to "strengthen the union between eurozone countries"....
    France and Germany are understood to want to strengthen the union between eurozone countries with new taxes and legal measures to stop nations borrowing and spending too much in future.
    But what is not being said in these articles is that Germany and France have no intention of leaving anyone out in the long run. They just want some of the weaker countries to be afraid of being "left out" of the "new club" so that they will agree to a much more tightly integrated Europe and to all of the new rules that Germany and France plan to impose.


    Mark my words. Financially weaker countries such as Italy and Greece will eventually join the new "economic bloc" that Germany and France are setting up.


    But before any of this happens, a lot of these debt problems in Europe are going to be allowed to play out, the euro is probably going to sink like a rock, and chaos is going to be allowed to reign all over the continent for a short period of time.


    The cold, hard reality of the matter is that the current structure of the eurozone simply does not work and it should have never come into existence in the first place. A recent article posted on Crackerjack Finance summarized some of the problems with the existing eurozone structure very nicely....
    The problems of the Eurozone’s flawed construct are now completely exposed. A block of 17 sovereign nations have adopted a common currency and outsourced monetary policy to a common central bank. Yet each of the 17 sovereign nations have different comparative advantages, industries, debt levels, interest rates, budget deficits, labor market rules, and tax policies. Reflecting on all the differences, it is amazing that the Eurozone has survived in the current construct for over a decade.
    But instead of going back to national currencies, the elite of Europe are convinced that it is time for a "United States of Europe" that will be much, much more tightly integrated.


    An article in the Guardian recently quoted Angela Merkel as saying that the solution to the problems that Europe is facing is going to "mean more Europe, not less Europe"....
    Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, said the situation had become "unpleasant", and called for eurozone members to accelerate plans for closer political integration. "It is time for a breakthrough to a new Europe," she said. "Because the world is changing so much, we must be prepared to answer the challenges. That will mean more Europe, not less Europe."
    European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso has been even bolder in his calls for Europe to "unite"....
    The president of the European commission, José Manuel Barroso, issued a new call for the EU to "unite or face irrelevance" in the face of the mounting economic crisis in Italy. "We are witnessing fundamental changes to the economic and geopolitical order that have convinced me that Europe needs to advance now together or risk fragmentation. Europe must either transform itself or it will decline. We are in a defining moment where we either unite or face irrelevance," he said.
    To facilitate this process, new politicians are being put into place all over Europe that will be sympathetic to the "united Europe" agenda of the European elite.


    In Italy, Silvio Berlusconi is out, and it looks like he will be replaced by economist Mario Monti.


    Monti studied at Yale, he is a member of the European Commission, he is the chairman of the Trilateral Commission in Europe and he is also a member of the Bilderberg Group.


    In Greece, George Papandreou is out, and Lucas Papademos has been put into power.


    Papademos taught at Harvard, and he previously served as governor of the Greek central bank, as a vice president of the European Central Bank and as a senior economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston. He is also a member of the Trilateral Commission.


    It is funny how people from these same elitist organizations always seem to pop up in positions of power, isn't it?


    With men like these in position, it will be much easier for the European elite to get the rest of the continent to make the transition to the "new Europe".


    But what will a "new Europe" look like? Well, a Daily Mail article from a while back entitled "Rise of the Fourth Reich, how Germany is using the financial crisis to conquer Europe" contained the following sobering assessment of what much deeper economic integration for Europe would mean....
    This would entail a loss of sovereignty not seen in those countries since many were under the jackboot of the Third Reich 70 years ago.
    For be in no doubt what fiscal union means: it is one economic policy, one taxation system, one social security system, one debt, one economy, one finance minister. And all of the above would be German.
    That doesn't sound good.


    But that is what the elite always want.


    They always want more power and more control.


    Right now, the people of Europe are not ready to go along with the whole "new Europe" thing.


    So that means that there is going to have to be a lot of chaos, pain and fear first.
    A financial collapse is most definitely coming to Europe.
    It is going to be tremendously unpleasant.


    But after it is over, the European elite are hoping that they will finally have what they have always wanted - a "new Europe" that is more tightly integrated than it has been at any point since the fall of the Roman Empire.


    Out Of The Ashes Of The Collapse Of The Eurozone Will A “United States Of Europe” Arise?

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    also in the Occupy Wall Street thread. Terrific article- the "Iceland Model" appears to be the answer, and why Iceland's goings-on have gone silent on the global Zionist media. The insolvent banks need to go into receivership, not the nations they've deliberately wrecked! But instead things are going the banksters' way for the time being, because the political-whore class in most western nations now in the crosshairs of the "economic hitmen", are owned by those same banksters.



    Will Global Financial Demolition Lead To New World Order?

    by Allen L Roland




    The financial elite are laughing for they are well aware of the ongoing planned global financial demolition as well as the rapidly emerging New World order ~ with the Global elite firmly in control. However, there is another choice but it will take the same courage the people of Iceland took in reclaiming their country from the robber barons.

    The next step in the Occupy Wall Street movement, after establishing its presence and credibility, is to fully expose the enemy, the global financial elite, as well as their ongoing global financial demolition plans which will eventually lead to a New World Order ~ unless the people reclaim their power as they did in Iceland.

    Make no mistake ~ this is a planned demolition not unlike Building 7 as well as the two Trade Center towers on 9/11.

    Richard K Moore (An expatriate from Silicon Valley, who retired and moved to Ireland in 1994 to begin his ‘real work’ ~ trying to understand how the world works, and how we can make it better ~ which culminated in his widely acclaimed book Escaping the Matrix: How We the People Can Change the World (The Cyberjournal Project, 2005) ~ explains the Global Elite plan for a New World Social Order.

    Excerpt: “From their position of power, as the financiers of governments, the banking elite have over time perfected their methods of control. Staying always behind the scenes, they pull the strings controlling the media, the political parties, the intelligence agencies, the stock markets, and the offices of government. And perhaps their greatest lever of power is their control over currencies. By means of their central-bank scam, they engineer boom and bust cycles, and they print money from nothing and then loan it at interest to governments. The power of the elite banking gang (the ‘banksters’) is both absolute and subtle … Capitalism is a vehicle that helped bring the banksters to absolute power, but they have no more loyalty to that system than they have to place, or to anything or anyone. As mentioned earlier, they think on a global scale, with nations and populations as pawns. They define what money is and they issue it, just like the banker in a game of Monopoly. They can also make up a new game with a new kind of money. They have long outgrown any need to rely on any particular economic system in order to maintain their power. Capitalism was handy in an era of rapid growth. For an era of non-growth, a different game is being prepared.”

    So what is the different game that is being prepared ?


    more: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/11...w-world-order/

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansuMan
    Richard K Moore (An expatriate from Silicon Valley, who retired and moved to Ireland in 1994 to begin his ‘real work’ ~ trying to understand how the world works, and how we can make it better ~ which culminated in his widely acclaimed book Escaping the Matrix: How We the People Can Change the World (The Cyberjournal Project, 2005) ~ explains the Global Elite plan for a New World Social Order.
    sounds like the work of a real nutter,

  21. #21
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    UK Banks Told To Plan For Eurozone Split



    Britain's biggest banks have been urged by the City regulator to prepare for a break-up of the eurozone.
    The head of the Financial Services Authority (FSA), Hector Sants, has told financial institutions to accelerate plans for a separation of the single currency area, Sky's City editor Mark Kleinman has learned .
    Senior excutives from Barclays, HSBC, Lloyds Banking Group, RBS, Santander UK and Standard Chartered were given the warning at a private meeting with the FSA boss.
    :: For much more on the eurozone crisis go to our dedicated mini-site
    Although the meeting was not specifically set to issue the warning, Mr Sants said the banks should run a wide range of stress tests as part of their contingency planning.
    However, he stopped short of prescribing specific instructions or scenarios.
    People close to the FSA told Kleinman that Sants' warning was "the kind of contingency planning expected in a situation like this".
    The impact on different banks of a eurozone break-up would vary, depending on their exposures to sovereign debt of member countries.
    Where as Barclays holds billions of pounds worth of European government bonds, Santander UK and Standard Chartered have very little direct exposure.
    :: Meanwhile, six global central banks, including the Bank of England, have taken action in a coordinated bid to low borrowing costs and boost the world economy.

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    To make a long story short, the Euro is going to be around 50 years from now and the Eurozone is not going to split up.

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    The EUR might be around for some time yet under one name or the other, but the Eurozone will split up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HansuMan
    Richard K Moore (An expatriate from Silicon Valley, who retired and moved to Ireland in 1994 to begin his ‘real work’ ~ trying to understand how the world works, and how we can make it better ~ which culminated in his widely acclaimed book Escaping the Matrix: How We the People Can Change the World (The Cyberjournal Project, 2005) ~ explains the Global Elite plan for a New World Social Order.
    sounds like the work of a real nutter,
    Do U have any reasoned & intelligent observations to make, or do U mostly just feel empowered by smearing your betters with "nutter" labels?

    The Richard Moore article ref'd near the beginning of the "
    Will Global Financial Demolition Lead To New World Order?" article above:


    The Elite Plan for a New World Social Order

    by Richard K Moore


    Global Research, October 28, 2011
    New Dawn Magazine - 2011-10-20


    When the Industrial Revolution began in Britain, in the late 1700s, there was lots of money to be made by investing in factories and mills, by opening up new markets, and by gaining control of sources of raw materials. The folks who had the most money to invest, however, were not so much in Britain but more in Holland. Holland had been the leading Western power in the 1600s, and its bankers were the leading capitalists. In pursuit of profit, Dutch capital flowed to the British stock market, and thus the Dutch funded the rise of Britain, who subsequently eclipsed Holland both economically and geopolitically.

    In this way British industrialism came to be dominated by wealthy investors, and capitalism became the dominant economic system. This led to a major social transformation. Britain had been essentially an aristocratic society, dominated by landholding families. As capitalism became dominant economically, capitalists became dominant politically. Tax structures and import-export policies were gradually changed to favour investors over landowners.

    It was no longer economically viable to simply maintain an estate in the countryside: one needed to develop it, turn it to more productive use. Victorian dramas are filled with stories of aristocratic families who fall on hard times, and are forced to sell off their properties. For dramatic purposes, this decline is typically attributed to a failure in some character, a weak eldest son perhaps. But in fact the decline of aristocracy was part of a larger social transformation brought on by the rise of capitalism.

    The business of the capitalist is the management of capital, and this management is generally handled through the mediation of banks and brokerage houses. It should not be surprising that investment bankers came to occupy the top of the hierarchy of capitalist wealth and power. And in fact, there are a handful of banking families, including the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers, who have come to dominate economic and political affairs in the Western world.

    Unlike aristocrats, capitalists are not tied to a place, or to the maintenance of a place. Capital is disloyal and mobile – it flows to where the most growth can be found, as it flowed from Holland to Britain, then from Britain to the USA, and most recently from everywhere to China. Just as a copper mine might be exploited and then abandoned, so under capitalism a whole nation can be exploited and then abandoned, as we see in the rusting industrial areas of America and Britain.

    This detachment from place leads to a different kind of geopolitics under capitalism, as compared to aristocracy. A king goes to war when he sees an advantage to his nation in doing so. Historians can ‘explain’ the wars of pre-capitalist days, in terms of the aggrandisement of monarchs and nations.

    A capitalist stirs up a war in order to make profits, and in fact our elite banking families have financed both sides of most military conflicts since at least World War 1. Hence historians have a hard time ‘explaining’ World War 1 in terms of national motivations and objectives. In pre-capitalist days warfare was like chess, each side trying to win. Under capitalism warfare is more like a casino, where the players battle it out as long as they can get credit for more chips, and the real winner always turns out to be the house – the bankers who finance the war and decide who will be the last man standing. Not only are wars the most profitable of all capitalist ventures, but by choosing the winners, and managing the reconstruction, the elite banking families are able, over time, to tune the geopolitical configuration to suit their own interests.

    Nations and populations are but pawns in their games. Millions die in wars, infrastructures are destroyed, and while the world mourns, the bankers are counting their winnings and making plans for their postwar reconstruction investments.

    From their position of power, as the financiers of governments, the banking elite have over time perfected their methods of control. Staying always behind the scenes, they pull the strings controlling the media, the political parties, the intelligence agencies, the stock markets, and the offices of government. And perhaps their greatest lever of power is their control over currencies. By means of their central-bank scam, they engineer boom and bust cycles, and they print money from nothing and then loan it at interest to governments. The power of the elite banking gang (the ‘banksters’) is both absolute and subtle...
    Some of the biggest men in the United States are afraid of something. They know there is a power somewhere, so organised, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it. – President Woodrow Wilson

    The End of Growth – Banksters vs. Capitalism

    more: The Elite Plan for a New World Social Order

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    5,447
    What on earth is going to keep the euro in existence for much longer? It's doomed!

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