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  1. #1
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    Albert Einstein's theory of relativity could be defunct!

    GENEVA (AP) A pillar of physics that nothing can go faster than the speed of light appears to be smashed by an oddball subatomic particle that has apparently made a giant end run around Albert Einstein's theories.

    Scientists at the world's largest physics lab said Thursday they have clocked neutrinos traveling faster than light. That's something that according to Einstein's 1905 special theory of relativity the famous E (equals) mc2 equation just doesn't happen.

    "The feeling that most people have is this can't be right, this can't be real," said James Gillies, a spokesman for the European Organization for Nuclear Research. The organization, known as CERN, hosted part of the experiment, which is unrelated to the massive $10 billion Large Hadron Collider also located at the site.

    Gillies told The Associated Press that the readings have so astounded researchers that they are asking others to independently verify the measurements before claiming an actual discovery.

    "They are inviting the broader physics community to look at what they've done and really scrutinize it in great detail, and ideally for someone elsewhere in the world to repeat the measurements," he said Thursday.

    Scientists at the competing Fermilab in Chicago have promised to start such work immediately.

    "It's a shock," said Fermilab head theoretician Stephen Parke, who was not part of the research in Geneva. "It's going to cause us problems, no doubt about that if it's true."

    The Chicago team had similar faster-than-light results in 2007, but those came with a giant margin of error that undercut its scientific significance.

    Other outside scientists expressed skepticism at CERN's claim that the neutrinos one of the strangest well-known particles in physics were observed smashing past the cosmic speed barrier of 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers per second).

    University of Maryland physics department chairman Drew Baden called it "a flying carpet," something that was too fantastic to be believable.

    CERN says a neutrino beam fired from a particle accelerator near Geneva to a lab 454 miles (730 kilometers) away in Italy traveled 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light. Scientists calculated the margin of error at just 10 nanoseconds, making the difference statistically significant. But given the enormous implications of the find, they still spent months checking and rechecking their results to make sure there was no flaws in the experiment.

    "We have not found any instrumental effect that could explain the result of the measurement," said Antonio Ereditato, a physicist at the University of Bern, Switzerland, who was involved in the experiment known as OPERA.

    The researchers are now looking to the United States and Japan to confirm the results.

    A similar neutrino experiment at Fermilab near Chicago would be capable of running the tests, said Stavros Katsanevas, the deputy director of France's National Institute for Nuclear and Particle Physics Research. The institute collaborated with Italy's Gran Sasso National Laboratory for the experiment at CERN.

    Katsanevas said help could also come from the T2K experiment in Japan, though that is currently on hold after the country's devastating March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

    Scientists agree if the results are confirmed, that it would force a fundamental rethink of the laws of nature.

    Einstein's special relativity theory that says energy equals mass times the speed of light squared underlies "pretty much everything in modern physics," said John Ellis, a theoretical physicist at CERN who was not involved in the experiment. "It has worked perfectly up until now."

    He cautioned that the neutrino researchers would have to explain why similar results weren't detected before.

    "This would be such a sensational discovery if it were true that one has to treat it extremely carefully," said Ellis.

    Source: CERN physics labs in Switzerland says it discovered neutrinos that travel faster than speed of light

  2. #2
    loob lor geezer
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    A few people have previously postulated that certain particles might travel faster than light but have not been able to demonstrate how this could be. This news is really BIG and should really be grabbing the news in a big way.

  3. #3
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    Yes it is very big. It would alter the reality that we currently live in in a massive way. This could be the biggest revelation in centuries.

  4. #4
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    ^ Flying saucers...here we come...

  5. #5
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    Not as fast as the younger Mohumad Ali....he stated that he was that quick..he could switch his bedroom light off and be in bed before it got dark.
    QUOTE ::::

  6. #6
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    Cheeky little neutrinos.

  7. #7
    loob lor geezer
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    On the subject of science :



    There are an infinite number of mes writing this, and an infinite number of yous reading it
    According to the current standard model of cosmology, the observable universe containing all the billions of galaxies and trillions upon trillions of stars mentioned above is just one of an infinite number of universes existing side-by-side, like soap bubbles in a foam.
    Because they are infinite, every possible history must have played out. But more than that, the number of possible histories is finite, because there have been a finite number of events with a finite number of outcomes. The number is huge, but it is finite. So this exact event, where this author writes these words and you read them, must have happened an infinite number of times.
    Even more amazingly, we can work out how far away our nearest doppelganger is. It is, to put it mildly, a large distance: 10 to the power of 10 to the power of 28 meters. That number, in case you were wondering, is one followed by 10 billion billion billion zeroes .

    The 10 weirdest physics facts, from relativity to quantum physics - Telegraph

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Yes it is very big. It would alter the reality that we currently live in in a massive way. This could be the biggest revelation in centuries.
    How's that then?

    I can't say I use Einstein's theory much in every day life. Although I did have that Thomas Dolby single once.

    You?


  9. #9
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    I never believed that gossip anyway. Light is not an entity that can travel, its like magnetism or gravity, whatever those are.

    Ask any physicist what gravity actually is and they simply cannot explain it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAPPA View Post
    I never believed that gossip anyway. Light is not an entity that can travel, its like magnetism or gravity, whatever those are.

    Ask any physicist what gravity actually is and they simply cannot explain it.
    Have you ever asked a physicist.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub
    Yes it is very big. It would alter the reality that we currently live in in a massive way. This could be the biggest revelation in centuries.
    "bsnub" unless you can clearly explain WTF you're on about, shut the fuck up!

    Like "arry" I don't use Einstein's theory much and I can't for the life of me see how it's going change my life in LOS!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub
    It would alter the reality that we currently live in in a massive way.
    Please explain

    it may well alter the way physicists operate, but how will it affect us?

    did Einsteins theory of the speed of light affect anyone?
    Quote Originally Posted by KAPPA
    Light is not an entity that can travel, its like magnetism or gravity, whatever those are.
    I don't think you know what light is

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAPPA
    Ask any physicist what gravity actually is and they simply cannot explain it.
    Gravitation, or gravity, is a natural phenomenon by which physical bodies attract with a force proportional to their mass

    I am sure they could explain further but maybe you wouldn't understand them

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo
    Have you ever asked a physicist.
    If you can find any living physicist who would listen to "kappa' (who happens to think light doesn't travel) I'll bet you a thousand quid he wouldn't bother to reply to him!

    "kappa" you're thick!

  15. #15
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    If the speed of light can be exceeded, many assumptions in modern physics will be proven to be incorrect, maybe leading to different hypotheses and different ways of approaching unsolved problems

  16. #16
    Have you got any cheese Thetyim's Avatar
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    So how long will it take for someone to dream up a connection between neutrinos and the WTC to explain why they fell over ?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thetyim
    So how long will it take for someone to dream up a connection between neutrinos and the WTC to explain why they fell over ?
    Probably not long, "ent" (eccentric nut in Thailand) is probably working on that as we post!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    If the speed of light can be exceeded, many assumptions in modern physics will be proven to be incorrect, maybe leading to different hypotheses and different ways of approaching unsolved problems
    Like where do the socks go in the washing machine? Why there is only one monopolies commission? That kind of unsolved problem?

    Or how to stop cancer? How to stop overpopulation? That kind of problem?

    Rarely does this theoritical nonsense do much more than generate grants.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bold Rodney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub
    Yes it is very big. It would alter the reality that we currently live in in a massive way. This could be the biggest revelation in centuries.
    "bsnub" unless you can clearly explain WTF you're on about, shut the fuck up!

    Like "arry" I don't use Einstein's theory much and I can't for the life of me see how it's going change my life in LOS!

    Study of an obscure phenomenon called "Blackbody radiation" by a few scientists led to revolutionizing physics with the development of quantum mechanics and modern wave theory.

    That pretty much led, directly or indirectly to almost all of the things we associate with today: satellites, atomic theory/power/bombs, lasers/modern computers/modern materials - pretty much the whole shebang to be honest.

    The discovery of a "faster than light particle" would force the existing physics to be built up again and the ramifications of that would could be the same as with what ensued after Planck and einstein (et al).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg
    Study of an obscure phenomenon called "Blackbody radiation" by a few scientists led to revolutionizing physics with the development of quantum mechanics and modern wave theory.

    That pretty much led, directly or indirectly to almost all of the things we associate with today: satellites, atomic theory/power/bombs, lasers/modern computers/modern materials - pretty much the whole shebang to be honest.

    The discovery of a "faster than light particle" would force the existing physics to be built up again and the ramifications of that would could be the same as with what ensued after Planck and einstein (et al).
    Very good explanation and solid reasoning and I do understand there could serious advances made in physics correcting a basic flawed mathematical formula, if it was indeed a flawed assumption by Einstein?

    However, unfortunately I can't relate that advancement to my life in LOS i.e. fishing, golfing, swimming, pool, darts, eating great food and having a few Chang's in the sun? (only one woman..the wife).

    You see Satellite TV is basicall shite here, Thai Cable TV is basically shite, my laptop works fine and I don't have any atomic weapons to hand.

  21. #21
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    Great news. This helps pave the way for someone to come up with a new energy theory.

  22. #22
    Cenosillicaphobiac
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    I don't think you know what light is
    It's a particle and it's a wave.
    See, even light doesn't know what is. How do you expect anyone else to?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    Study of an obscure phenomenon called "Blackbody radiation" by a few scientists led to revolutionizing physics with the development of quantum mechanics and modern wave theory.

    That pretty much led, directly or indirectly to almost all of the things we associate with today: satellites, atomic theory/power/bombs, lasers/modern computers/modern materials - pretty much the whole shebang to be honest.
    As did the discovery of how to make fire and the invention of the wheel.

    Purlease.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattayardm
    Great news. This "might" help pave the way for someone to come up with a new energy source.
    Fixed that for you.

    But who knows maybe nuclear fusion technology might be one example?

    That would certainly change my life in LOS, increased use of very COLD air con units at home and in the bars!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bold Rodney View Post
    Very good explanation and solid reasoning and I do understand there could serious advances made in physics correcting a basic flawed mathematical formula, if it was indeed a flawed assumption by Einstein?
    Thats not really how physics works. Newtonian physics was superceeded by quantum mechanics. Newtonian physics is not wrong per se, its just not complete enough. Successive thoeries encompass the preceeding. Any new theory will encompass newtonian physics, quantum mechanics and whateve else, bit like an onion encompasing lower layers.

    As you say in a later post, like fire and the wheel - newtonian physics did not say fire was "wrong" to push an example, it just explained it better - as did quantum theories later...

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