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  1. #1
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    The right to stab a burglar in your UK house with impunity

    Right to self-defence in homes to be 'much clearer'


    Justice Secretary Ken Clarke has said a householder who knifes a burglar will not have committed a criminal offence under plans to clarify the law on self-defence in England.

    He told the BBC people were entitled to use "whatever force necessary" to protect themselves and their homes.

    David Cameron recently said the issue should be put "beyond doubt".

    Mr Clarke has also said he is committed to axing indeterminate prison sentences despite opposition from many Tory MPs.

    Mr Clarke has come under attack over proposed changes to sentencing policy but has denied making a series of U-turns on key elements amid pressure from Tory MPs and sections of the media.

    He said indeterminate sentences - where prisoners can be held beyond their original release date if they still pose a danger to society - had been an "unmitigated disaster" since they had been introduced by Tony Blair
    He suggested an alternative to them would be in place within two years.

    Mr Clarke will defend his criminal justice agenda when proposed sentencing and legal aid changes are debated by MPs later - although no plans to change indeterminate sentences are currently included in planned legislation.

    On people's rights to self-defence in their homes, Mr Clarke said there was "constant doubt" about the issue and the proposed legislation would make this "much clearer".

    Under the terms of the 2008 Criminal Justice and Immigration Act, homeowners who use "reasonable force" to protect themselves against intruders should not be prosecuted, providing they use no more force than is absolutely necessary.

    'Absolute right'
    But the government is set to place people's right to defend their property, long present in common law, in statute law.

    "It's quite obvious that people are entitled to use whatever force is necessary to protect themselves and their homes," Mr Clarke said.

    We will make it quite clear you can hit the burglar with the poker if he's in the house and you have a perfect defence when you do so” Ken Clarke
    Asked about what this would mean in practice, he said: "If an old lady finds she's got an 18 year old burgling her house and she picks up a kitchen knife and sticks it in him she has not committed a criminal offence and we will make that clear."

    He added: "We will make it quite clear you can hit the burglar with the poker if he's in the house and you have a perfect defence when you do so."

    Mr Clarke said legal protection would not extend to anyone shooting a burglar in the back when they were fleeing or "getting their friends together to beat them up".

    "We all know what we mean when we say a person has an absolute right to defend themselves and their home and reasonable force.

    "Nobody should prosecute and nobody should ever convict anybody who takes those steps."

    The BBC's Political Correspondent Ross Hawkins said it remained to be seen how judges would interpret any change in the law when cases came to court.

  2. #2
    The Dentist English Noodles's Avatar
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    Capital punishment for burglary, but not for rape or murder. It's a funny old world we live in.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick
    The right to stab any MP found in your UK home with impunity
    Fixed the headline for you "lick".

  4. #4
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    Just more spin, I'll wait until I see the laws in statute before I believe. Jim

  5. #5
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    [quote=The Bold Rodney;1799309]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick
    The right to stab any MP found in your UK home with impunity
    It would seem quite legal to invite him round to your house for tea and scones and stab him mercilessly to death claiming you hadn't a clue who he was.

    Being a politician i'm sure he would have fully deserved such treatment.

  6. #6
    Have you got any cheese Thetyim's Avatar
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    If I found my mother burgling our house can I stab her 36 times and then go to the cinema ?

  7. #7
    sabaii sabaii
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    ^ What about Mother in Laws ?

    I can picture her now, lying their motionless in the garden with my 40 inch TV under her arm

  8. #8
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    Have to admit the Justice Secretary has got me in a tiz over this.

    Just a few weeks ago he was planning to give serious offenders 50% discount on their sentences if they pleaded guilty and at the same time claiming that certain types of rape weren't that bad and now he is advocating impunity for householders if they kill someone in their own home.

    Must be some bloody strong beer he's guzzling!

  9. #9
    sabaii sabaii
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    ^^ haha I see I'm not the only one with these thoughts

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick
    Asked about what this would mean in practice, Mr Clarke said: "If an old lady finds she's got an 18 year old burgling her house and she picks up a kitchen knife and sticks it in him she has not committed a criminal offence and we will make that clear."

    So if the 18 year old burglar, in fear of his life from an old lady who is wielding a very sharp knife, kills her in self defence, then he also would have impunity.

    I'm afraid Kenneth Clarke is well past his sell by date. To advocate that old women should tackle young offenders in their own home (his example i might add) then he is not fit to hold the post of Justice Minister. It seems the more he opens his mouth the closer he gets to compulsory retirement.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick
    He told the BBC people were entitled to use "whatever force necessary" to protect themselves and their homes
    Straight out of the old UN resolution playbook.

    If the "intruder" turns out to be a policeman/SAS member/bank employed baliff, in the dark it is often difficult to see, this "law" will be upheld - I think not.

  12. #12
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    Quick fix would be for all "White Anglo Saxon" UK citizens to be given the right to bear arms...

    Clarke could fix the UK crime figures and immigration problems with one stroke of his pen!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick View Post
    We will make it quite clear you can hit the burglar with the poker
    Professor Plum will no doubt be relieved to know that he can now kill burglars in the dining room with the poker.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabaii sabaii View Post
    ^ What about Mother in Laws ?

    I can picture her now, lying their motionless in the garden with my 40 inch TV under her arm

    Can I stab a chav walking down my steet if he looks like he might burgal my house !!

  15. #15
    The Dentist English Noodles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiLeakHunt
    Can I stab a chav walking down my steet if he looks like he might burgal my house !!
    1. Burgal

    The way a complete numbnuts would spell burgle.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Burgal


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by English Noodles
    Capital punishment for burglary, but not for rape or murder.
    Can't have women protecting themselves from rapists, any normal country women are allowed to protect themselves with pepper spray etc, but not the UK

  17. #17
    Member BillyBobThai's Avatar
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    Is it not legal to own a shotgun? Would wield a 12 gauge than a poker.

  18. #18
    Neo
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    How nice of those MP's to give us permission...

  19. #19
    Neo
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBobThai View Post
    Is it not legal to own a shotgun? Would wield a 12 gauge than a poker.
    Yeah that's why we don't have the highest murder rate in the world.

  20. #20
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    Old fart clarke is a nutter.

    Knee-jerk pandering to the right wing neo-cons.

    A jury will still find you guilty based on evidence.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo
    Yeah that's why we don't have the highest murder rate in the world.
    Like Honduras? Think it's mostly assault rifles there, not so much on shotguns.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog
    Can't have women protecting themselves from rapists, any normal country women are allowed to protect themselves with pepper spray etc, but not the UK
    In the UK, they defend themselves from rape by being fucking ugly.

  23. #23
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    It is very early this morning as I read this thread so maybe I am not up with the politics of this and I am not British which may further add to my ignorance.However here is my two bobs worth.
    I always get peeved at those who have more sympathy for those who initiate an action than for the ones who have been violated.
    For every action there is a reaction.
    If it is well known to all that if you enter a persons abode illegally that you will most likely suffer extreme repurcussions then perhaps these incidents will be reduced.
    It is in the end very simple to me in that if I know the rules and choose to ignore them then what ever penalty that I earn is just.
    If however I dont like the rules then go about getting them changed in the correct manner.Bloody bleeding hearts just complicate things.
    No wonder we have the crime rate we currently experience when the leaning is to protect the perpetrator more than the aggrieved.

  24. #24
    The Dentist English Noodles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil
    In the UK, they defend themselves from rape by being fucking ugly.
    What a disgusting comment to make. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

  25. #25
    The Dentist English Noodles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Tigger
    If it is well known to all that if you enter a persons abode illegally that you will most likely suffer extreme repurcussions then perhaps these incidents will be reduced. It is in the end very simple to me in that if I know the rules and choose to ignore them then what ever penalty that I earn is just. If however I dont like the rules then go about getting them changed in the correct manner.Bloody bleeding hearts just complicate things. No wonder we have the crime rate we currently experience when the leaning is to protect the perpetrator more than the aggrieved.
    I agree that the law has, for too long, swayed in favour of the rights of burglars over those of homeowners. "Reasonable force" as a concept is impossible for jurors to judge, especially if they have never faced a burglar or a mugger. It is essential to get clarity.

    I welcome the ability to defend my property. I just hope that this doesn't mean that burglars are now more likely to arm themselves when breaking into homes. In my opinion this is likely only going to end in disaster for both criminals and homeowners. Many people who try to uses knives as defense end up getting stabbed themselves. An individual's home is supposed to be his place of security and safety, where you can raise children and rest when vulnerable, you should of course have the right to protect your family, home and property against anyone who poses a real threat to them.


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