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  1. #1
    Member Strongarm's Avatar
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    It's legal to criticise Islam in The Netherlands

    DUTCH far-right MP Geert Wilders walked away from hate speech and discrimination charges today for statements made attacking Islam, calling his acquittal a victory for freedom of speech.

    "You are being acquitted on all the charges that were put against you," Judge Marcel van Oosten told Wilders who has been on trial in the Amsterdam regional court since October last year.
    The flamboyant MP faced five counts of hate speech and discrimination for his anti-Islamic remarks on websites, internet forums and in Dutch newspapers between October 2006 and March 2008, and in his controversial 17-minute movie "Fitna" ("Discord" in Arabic).
    He also compared the Koran with Hitler's "Mein Kampf" while in "Fitna" he shows shocking images of the September 11 attacks in the United States and other onslaughts against Western targets interspersed with verses from the Muslim holy book.


    "The bench finds that your statements are acceptable within the context of the public debate," the judge told the platinum-haired politician, whose case was boosted by a prosecution unwilling to take aim at him.
    "The bench finds that although gross and denigrating, it did not give rise to hatred," said Judge van Oosten.
    The 47-year-old Wilders, whose right-wing Party for Freedom (PVV) lends its support to a right-leaning Dutch coalition government, told journalists afterwards he was "overjoyed and very happy" to have been acquitted.
    "It is not only a victory for me but also a victory for freedom of speech," he said outside the courtroom.
    He added: "It means it is legal to criticise Islam."
    The acquittal comes after Wilders last month argued before judges that he was "defending freedom in the Netherlands" against Islam.
    One of Europe's most heavily-guarded politicians, the lawmaker told the court he was "obliged to speak" because The Netherlands is "under threat" from Islam.
    Wilders previously said he was "defending the character, the identity, the culture" of The Netherlands.
    His case has been helped by a reluctant prosecution, which last month again asked for his acquittal, saying that although his comments may have frequently caused anxiety and insult, they were not criminal as they criticised Islam as a religion and not Muslims as a people.
    The prosecution's unwillingness to take aim at Wilders dates as far back as 2008 when it refused to take up a case against him following complaints. On January 21, 2009, however, the Amsterdam appeals court forced the prosecution to mount a case against him.
    Wilders' trial also comes against a backdrop of plans by the central-right Dutch government to move away from a multicultural approach towards a tougher stance against those who ignore Dutch values and break the law.


    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/victory-for-free-speech-dutch-mp/story-e6frfku0-1226080864102#ixzz1Q64i1Yaj

  2. #2
    Member Strongarm's Avatar
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    A win for common sense!

  3. #3
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    ^

    For sure, a good day for Holland, not had to many of those lately, not one untruth in Wilders film Fitna, telling the truth about what happens in the public
    space should never be able to be deemed illegal.

    Very embarrassing for the English who barred Wilders from entering England when he was invited to show his film Fitna in the house of lords, oh dear tea and biscuits anyone


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    Quote Originally Posted by Strongarm View Post
    A win for common sense!
    So long as they don't make a pigs ear of it !

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    His argument was very sound. He stated that he was attacking the ideology and not the people. At no time did he say anything hateful about "Muslims" He just said that Islam was a hateful ideology. There is surely a big difference between attacking an idea as apposed to the person who has the idea.

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    Several years ago I posted on this forum that the pendulum would swing and things would get ugly. The peoples of Europe and the western world in general have had about enough, things will change, just have to hope that the pendulum does not swing to far. Jim

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    Suspended from News & Speakers Corner Calgary's Avatar
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    Some of my highly educated, Liberal Dutch relatives are not pro-Wilders.

    When discussing the matter with them, they make a big distinction between 1st. and 2nd. generation Muslims. They say the assimilation into Dutch culture speeds up considerably with the 2nd. generation, and more after that.

    But then these views do not tackle the central Wilders point about the nature of Islam, but the whole assimilation and multi-culture thing.

    These relatives (a medical doctor and a Uni. professor) did not see the threat to the Dutch culture as postulated by Wilders.

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    Member mikediver's Avatar
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    The UN is still a venue where Muslims are seeking to get any criticism of Islam outlawed. This is while they are demanding total tolerance for Muslims from all the western countries where they have settled. It is not a big isssue in the US because they are still a small portion of the population and because we are already Multicultural (for better of worse.)

    Also, let's compare and contrast the above with hate speech rulings in Canada. Fairly recently, the courts in Canada have ruled that internet "speech" against feminism and feminists is hate speech, and is punishable by fine and community service for a first offense and up to 1 year in jail for a second offence. Islam is not the only ideology that claims legal protection from any criticism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calgary
    These relatives (a medical doctor and a Uni. professor) did not see the threat to the Dutch culture as postulated by Wilders.
    That depends. They will not be a threat as long as they remain a small minority. I don't know the situation in the Netherlands. But in Germany their share of the population is growing for several reasons.

    One is they have many more children. Statistics say though the difference levels out in the second generation. I am really not sure this is true. The second reason is marrying in Turkey and bringing the wife/husband to Germany. That is quite common and often the young women from Germany are forced into marriages by their families. That is the reason why I doubt the leveling to german birth rates as those second generation families will have many children again. Laws cannot really stop that influx as those living in Germany can acquire german nationality and then there is no stopping them getting spouses in. Even without german citizenship they can do it under family protection laws.

    A critical level of Moslems won't happen as soon as some alarmists claim. Not in my lifetime but maybe near the end of my childrens lifetime. That's when the trouble will start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikediver View Post
    The UN is still a venue where Muslims are seeking to get any criticism of Islam outlawed. This is while they are demanding total tolerance for Muslims from all the western countries where they have settled. It is not a big isssue in the US because they are still a small portion of the population and because we are already Multicultural (for better of worse.)

    Also, let's compare and contrast the above with hate speech rulings in Canada. Fairly recently, the courts in Canada have ruled that internet "speech" against feminism and feminists is hate speech, and is punishable by fine and community service for a first offense and up to 1 year in jail for a second offence. Islam is not the only ideology that claims legal protection from any criticism.
    There have been a number of controversial "hate speech" rulings in Canada but there have also been many cases thrown out by the courts. Hate speech means that you have promoted hatred or some kind of violent actions against a person or some identifiable group. If you say. " I detest this whole idea that is promoted by left wing feminists because....blah blah" that would not qualify as hate speech, as opposed to "We should all rise up and burn these feimnist bitches alive" This is why the Dutch court ruled the way they did. No attack on Muslims; just Islam, and the threat is poses to Western society..real or imagined.

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    Now when they declare open season on the bastards, we'll be getting somewhere!!!!

  12. #12
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    They say a whole bunch of crap about us, "what's good for the goose, is good for the gander"

    Sensitive bunch of poofs they are...

  13. #13
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    Geert Wilders is my hero

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    Muslims in the Netherlands, they're all cunts.
    I lived there for years and found them arrogant, hostile, inbread and stupid.
    I didn't meet one that was worth knowing.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr View Post
    Very embarrassing for the English who barred Wilders from entering England when he was invited to show his film Fitna in the house of lords, oh dear tea and biscuits anyone

    Let's be precise, he was banned by the same Labour government that has filled Britain with Pakistani muslims on the basis that they are reliable voters.

    However, the incumbent bunch of c*nts won't have the balls to congratulate Wilders for speaking the truth, because they now need their votes, too.

    As Socal says, Wilders is a hero.

    I quite like his political manifesto, especially the points I've highlighted:

    • Considerable reduction of taxes and state regulations.
    • Replacement of the present Article 1 of the Dutch constitution, guaranteeing equality under the law, by a clause stating the cultural dominance of the Christian, Jewish and humanist traditions.
    • Reduction of the influence of the European Union, which may no longer be expanded with new member states, especially Turkey; the European Parliament will be abolished. Dutch financial contributions to the European Union should be reduced by billions of euros.
    • A five year moratorium on the immigration of non-Western foreigners who intend to stay in the Netherlands. Foreign residents will no longer have the right to vote in municipal elections.
    • A five-year moratorium on the founding of new mosques and Islamic schools; a permanent ban on preaching in any language other than Dutch. Foreign imams will not be allowed to preach. Radical mosques will be closed and radical Muslims will be expelled.
    • Restoration of educational standards, with an emphasis on the educational value of the family.
    • Introduction of binding referenda and elected mayors, chiefs of police and prime ministers.
    • Introduction of minimum penalties, and higher maximum penalties; introduction of administrative detention for terrorist suspects. Street terrorism will be punished by boot camps and denaturalisation and deportation of immigrant offenders.
    • Restoration of respect and better rewards for teachers, policemen, health care workers and military personnel.
    • Instead of complicated reorganisation, a more accessible and humane health care system, especially for elderly citizens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Let's be precise, he was banned by the same Labour government that has filled Britain with Pakistani muslims on the basis that they are reliable voters.

    As are the Eastern Europeans !

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiLeakHunt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Let's be precise, he was banned by the same Labour government that has filled Britain with Pakistani muslims on the basis that they are reliable voters.

    As are the Eastern Europeans !
    As European citizens, they are permitted to live and work in Britain, and vice versa.

    Not the same as flooding the country with non-Europeans who refuse to assimilate and do their best to ban any aspect of their hosts culture with which they disagree.

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