Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: Vietnam v China

  1. #1
    Fresh Seaman CaptainNemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    23-09-2019 @ 12:47 AM
    Location
    in t' naughty lass
    Posts
    5,447

    Vietnam v China


    Vietnam plans live-fire drill amid South China Sea row

    Both China and the US have increased naval drills in the Asian region

    Vietnam has said it will hold live-fire exercises in the South China Sea amid escalating tensions with China over disputed waters.

    Vietnam warned vessels to stay out of the area off its central coast when it conducts the drills on Monday.

    It follows a verbal clash with China over sovereignty in the area.

    China reacted angrily after Vietnam said a Chinese fishing boat rammed cables from an oil exploration vessel inside its exclusive economic zone.

    Beijing said Chinese fishing boats were chased away by armed Vietnamese ships in the incident on Thursday.

    One of the Chinese boats became tangled with the cables of a Vietnamese oil exploring vessel, which continued to drag the Chinese vessel for more than an hour before the net had to be cut, the foreign ministry said.

    China accused Vietnam of "gravely violating" its sovereignty, saying Vietnam's actions had endangered Chinese sailors' lives, and warned it to stop "all invasive activities".

    'Premeditated'
    Beijing's strong-worded statement followed Vietnam's accusation that a Chinese fishing boat had "intentionally rammed" the exploration cables of a Vietnamese boat - the second such incident in two weeks.

    Vietnam said the "premeditated and carefully calculated" attack was part of China's attempts to control disputed waters.

    Vietnam now says it will stage live ammunition drills on Monday in an area off central Quang Nam province.

    The announcement was made on Friday on the website of the state-owned Northern Maritime Safety Co-operation, warning all vessels to avoid the area.

    It said the decision to hold the exercises was taken on 7 June.

    China is engaged in maritime border disputes with several countries.

    The South China Sea includes important shipping routes and may contain rich oil and gas deposits.

    The Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have rival claims in the area. The US has also expressed concern about China's rising naval ambitions.
    Vietnam and China hackers escalate Spratly Islands row

    Hackers have taken up where protesters left off
    Computer hackers from Vietnam and China have attacked websites including portals run by each other's governments, amid a sea-border row.

    The hackers replaced content on the sites with abuse and national symbols.

    Vietnam's Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung said his country's claims to territory in the South China Sea were incontestable.

    Chinese officials later warned other Asian nations to halt exploration for minerals in the area.

    Both sides claim ownership of islands in the South China Sea.

    The Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have rival claims in the area.

    'Strong determination'
    On the weekend, hundreds of Vietnamese protested against Chinese naval operations in disputed waters.

    Relations between Vietnam and China have long been awkward, but public protests are extremely rare.

    The demonstrations in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City followed a confrontation between a Vietnamese ship and Chinese patrol boats last month.

    Hanoi accused a Chinese patrol of cutting the cables of a Vietnamese ship conducting seismic research about 120km (80 miles) off Vietnam's coast.

    At the time of the incident, China said that Vietnamese vessels had been operating "illegally", adding that the country should "refrain from creating trouble".

    On Thursday, Prime Minister Dung made his first comments on the row, saying Vietnam's sovereignty was incontestable in areas of the Paracel and Spratly island groups.

    "We continue to affirm strongly and to manifest the strongest determination of all the party, of all the people and of all the army in protecting Vietnamese sovereignty in maritime zones and islands of the country," Mr Dung said in comments reported by the Thanh Nien newspaper.

    Later, Vietnamese officials accused a Chinese fishing boat of once again intentionally ramming cables from an oil exploration vessel inside its exclusive economic zone.

    And separately, China's ambassador to the Philippines, Liu Jianchao, warned other countries to stop prospecting for oil in the area.

    The disputed islands are largely uninhabited, but the area includes important shipping routes and may contain oil and gas deposits.
    'Nam, a real thorn in the side of Chinese ambitions... having beaten them in more than one war, Charlie shrugs off the chubby Dragon's bluster, and of all the countries squabbling over the South China Sea, Vietnam is the only one that's probably happy to turn up for a fight. I like the idea that the USA might put some funds behind the Vietnamese hacking community to give China a digital wedgie for trying it on in cyberspace.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQVmkDUkZT4

    we are all figments of our own imagination.

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat
    Takeovers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    12-11-2019 @ 09:26 AM
    Location
    Berlin Germany
    Posts
    5,801
    The chinese proposal seems reasonable. Just the natural order of things that would spring into everyones mind.

  3. #3
    Fresh Seaman CaptainNemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    23-09-2019 @ 12:47 AM
    Location
    in t' naughty lass
    Posts
    5,447
    An interesting thing about it is that the Vietnamese are so much better at being Chinese than the Chinese, with their dripping red authoritarianism and little pageants of minorities Vietnam and China are really very similar - a bit like Elton John, and your mum.

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat
    thehighlander959's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    29-01-2013 @ 05:54 PM
    Posts
    1,784
    The Vietnamese have kicked the PLA,s ass on more than one occasion, They have no great fear of Beijing and their old communist masters.
    The big problem for Vietnam is what the Chinese can do economically to hurt their economy.

  5. #5
    Fresh Seaman CaptainNemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    23-09-2019 @ 12:47 AM
    Location
    in t' naughty lass
    Posts
    5,447
    Since when were China the "old communist masters" of Vietnam!?
    I don't the Chi can do much to the VN economy, VN exports plenty to the EU, US, and Korea. As with China's other rivals, they've as much to lose as to gain by engaging in trade wars.
    Last edited by CaptainNemo; 11-06-2011 at 05:17 AM.

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat
    OhOh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 11:56 PM
    Location
    Where troubles melt like lemon drops
    Posts
    18,049
    Quote Originally Posted by thehighlander959 View Post
    The Vietnamese have kicked the PLA,s ass on more than one occasion, They have no great fear of Beijing and their old communist masters.
    The big problem for Vietnam is what the Chinese can do economically to hurt their economy.
    No chance. The merkins will send in some "financial" advisers. They will fuck up the Viet economy. This will lead to civil unrest. The merkins will then send in "military" advisers to protect their substantial "interests". The Viet army will be considered inadequate and "bolstered" by merkin "contractors/mercenaries. Civil war will beak out. The merkins will spend 10 years and 10 trillion dollars. The merkins will be evacuated to their floating battle groups offshore and slink back home for another 20 years.

    In the meantime the chinks will quietly make loads of money.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat
    thehighlander959's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    29-01-2013 @ 05:54 PM
    Posts
    1,784
    ^^
    I think you are missing the point my friend. If I really was pissed off with the Vietnamese there are a few ways to put the dampers on them economically, number one for me would be to continue to Dam-up the Mekong inside Chinese borders. At the last count it runs through at least six countries I know of.
    Where does the Mekong hit the ocean? Mekong Delta South Vietnam voila!!! as the French would say.
    "Don,t f*ck with the baldies*

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat
    Marmite the Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Last Online
    08-09-2014 @ 10:43 AM
    Location
    Simian Islands
    Posts
    34,827
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
    I like the idea that the USA might put some funds behind the Vietnamese
    Yes, that's always worked well for the US.

  9. #9
    Fresh Seaman CaptainNemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    23-09-2019 @ 12:47 AM
    Location
    in t' naughty lass
    Posts
    5,447
    ^
    Doesn't really work for us either:
    VietNamNet - UK to give US$114 million aid to Vietnam | UK to give US$114 million aid to Vietnam
    I dunno which is worse, contributing to the Euromillions so that some fetid porngobbling continental dwarf can move out of his mother's, or dishing out a large dollop of bribes under the guise of "development aid", charity on behalf of the British tax-serfs.

    Still, I rather suspect that Vietnam is in the process of building relationships beyond Mao Dynasty China, to kick a wedge into the door
    http://vietnambusiness.asia/sharp-in...nt-in-vietnam/
    http://english.vovnews.vn/Home/Vietn...116/127402.vov
    http://www.usvtc.org/
    http://www.buyusa.gov/vietnam/en/vie...t_climate.html

    Quote Originally Posted by thehighlander959 View Post
    ^^
    I think you are missing the point my friend. If I really was pissed off with the Vietnamese there are a few ways to put the dampers on them economically, number one for me would be to continue to Dam-up the Mekong inside Chinese borders. At the last count it runs through at least six countries I know of.
    Where does the Mekong hit the ocean? Mekong Delta South Vietnam voila!!! as the French would say.
    That doesn't really work with China's long-term ambitions to control SEAsia, if they pursued a policy of deliberately disrupting the Mekong, they would also be disrupting all the Chinese business interests in SEAsia, and their guanxi tentacles would risk being severed in favour of the warm furry embrace of the wicked Lao-Wai.
    The french would probably say "can you take back these vietnamese immigrants we foolishly admitted in the republic, thinking they would be just as french as us", in french, of course.

    China has as much claim on the South China Sea as the UK does on, say, Iceland... i.e. some very tenuous historical documents from very long ago that mention a bloke once went past one of the islands there, that fishermen from somewhere else had been going to for ages.
    You won't be surprised to hear that the Vietnamese name for the South China Sea is something a little less China-related... they just call it "The East Sea" (a bit like how the Koreans call the Sea of Japan, "The East Sea"; naturally the Filipinos call it "The West Sea"). The original name is the Champa Sea or Sea of Cham... named after it's more ancient autochthonous Austronesian (i.e. pre-Chinese, pre-Vietnamese, pre-Phillipines, and pre-Siamese, and pre-Khmer) inhabitants... it might help if in English we reverted to the original name.
    Last edited by CaptainNemo; 12-06-2011 at 01:19 AM.

  10. #10
    I am in Jail

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Online
    22-10-2013 @ 04:29 PM
    Posts
    2,799
    You are sailing on dangerous waters...

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainNemo View Post
    ^
    Doesn't really work for us either:
    VietNamNet - UK to give US$114 million aid to Vietnam | UK to give US$114 million aid to Vietnam
    I dunno which is worse, contributing to the Euromillions so that some fetid porngobbling continental dwarf can move out of his mother's, or dishing out a large dollop of bribes under the guise of "development aid", charity on behalf of the British tax-serfs.

    Still, I rather suspect that Vietnam is in the process of building relationships beyond Mao Dynasty China, to kick a wedge into the door
    Sharp Increase of US Investment in Vietnam | Vietnam Business News
    Vietnam willing to welcome US businesses - Vietnam willing to welcome US businesses - VOVNEWS.VN
    US-Vietnam Trade Council
    Investment Climate -- U.S. Commercial Service Vietnam

    Quote Originally Posted by thehighlander959 View Post
    ^^
    I think you are missing the point my friend. If I really was pissed off with the Vietnamese there are a few ways to put the dampers on them economically, number one for me would be to continue to Dam-up the Mekong inside Chinese borders. At the last count it runs through at least six countries I know of.
    Where does the Mekong hit the ocean? Mekong Delta South Vietnam voila!!! as the French would say.
    That doesn't really work with China's long-term ambitions to control SEAsia, if they pursued a policy of deliberately disrupting the Mekong, they would also be disrupting all the Chinese business interests in SEAsia, and their guanxi tentacles would risk being severed in favour of the warm furry embrace of the wicked Lao-Wai.
    The french would probably say "can you take back these vietnamese immigrants we foolishly admitted in the republic, thinking they would be just as french as us", in french, of course.

    China has as much claim on the South China Sea as the UK does on, say, Iceland... i.e. some very tenuous historical documents from very long ago that mention a bloke once went past one of the islands there, that fishermen from somewhere else had been going to for ages.
    You won't be surprised to hear that the Vietnamese name for the South China Sea is something a little less China-related... they just call it "The East Sea" (a bit like how the Koreans call the Sea of Japan, "The East Sea"; naturally the Filipinos call it "The West Sea"). The original name is the Champa Sea or Sea of Cham... named after it's more ancient autochthonous Austronesian (i.e. pre-Chinese, pre-Vietnamese, pre-Phillipines, and pre-Siamese, and pre-Khmer) inhabitants... it might help if in English we reverted to the original name.

  11. #11
    Fresh Seaman CaptainNemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    23-09-2019 @ 12:47 AM
    Location
    in t' naughty lass
    Posts
    5,447
    not at the moment, but I was yesterday (nearly).
    ...actually they're not really that dangerous, it's the sweaty crevices where it starts to get a bit hairy... but the word is that most of it's paid for in advance

  12. #12
    Mid
    Mid is offline
    Thailand Expat
    Mid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    1,413
    China Communist Party newspaper cautions Vietnam
    Jun 11, 2011

    BEIJING (AP) — A newspaper published by China’s ruling Communist Party warned Vietnam on Saturday to show restraint or come out the loser in an escalating squabble over territorial claims in the South China Sea.

    Vietnam on Friday announced a live ammunition drill in an apparent response to China’s demand that it halt all oil exploration in an area of the South China Sea claimed by both sides.

    Noting that and other recent statements from Vietnam’s leadership, the Global Times in an editorial accused Hanoi of using the “lowest form of nationalism to create new enmity between the people of the two countries.”

    “Hanoi seems to be looking to dissipate domestic pressure and buck up morale at home, while at the same time further drawing in the concern of international society over the South China Sea dispute,” the newspaper said.

    It said Vietnam’s tough stance had destroyed goodwill among the Chinese public and threatens to pressure China’s leaders into responding with firmer actions.

    “If Vietnam insists on making trouble, thinking that the more trouble it makes, the more benefits it gains, then we truly wish to remind those in Vietnam who determine policy to please read your history,” the editorial concluded.

    Vietnam announced its navy will carry out two exercises on Monday in an area off the country’s central Quang Nam province and warned ships to stay out of the area. It was the first time Vietnam has issued such an alert about maritime drills.

    The notice came a day after China and Vietnam traded demands to stay out of waters they claim. The two countries have a long history of maritime scraps in disputed parts of the South China Sea near the Spratly and Paracel islands, but the recent row has sparked an unusually hostile response from Hanoi.

    Saturday’s editorial mixed righteous indignation with patronizing language in a reflection of the condescension with which Beijing frequently regards its smaller Communist neighbor. While China assisted Vietnam’s Communists against France and the United States, relations soon soured and China briefly invaded in 1979 in retaliation for Hanoi’s toppling of Beijing’s Khmer Rouge allies in Cambodia.

    Despite its size and strength, China has “never sought to politically blackmail smaller countries,” the editorial said.

    “But when a small country turns that around and tries to blackmail China, the Chinese people will on the one hand feel rather angry, while on the other hand find it quite amusing,” it said.

    asiancorrespondent.com

    see also :

    http://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...-airstrip.html

    .

  13. #13
    Fresh Seaman CaptainNemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    23-09-2019 @ 12:47 AM
    Location
    in t' naughty lass
    Posts
    5,447
    Quote Originally Posted by Mid View Post
    “If Vietnam insists on making trouble, thinking that the more trouble it makes, the more benefits it gains, then we truly wish to remind those in Vietnam who determine policy to please read your history,” the editorial concluded.
    er, yeah... and China should read theirs, ramping it up could really backfire on them badly.

    I think the Royal Navy should rock up and stick a flag on 'em, I mean, "Spratly" doesn't sound very Chinese, now, does it

    Richard Spratly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    ...but the islands legitimately belong to the Cham... who mostly left for Aceh in northern Sumatra after the Viets invaded their territory, so Indonesia's in running too lol!

  14. #14
    who
    who is offline
    Member
    who's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    19-03-2013 @ 08:50 AM
    Posts
    469
    I've heard that the Chinese are also claiming parts of Gulf of Mexico and Loch Ness.

  15. #15
    who
    who is offline
    Member
    who's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    19-03-2013 @ 08:50 AM
    Posts
    469
    Captain - Where can I get info about the Cham going to Aceh. I had several Cham friends a few generations ago. - Bill

  16. #16
    Member
    drawp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Online
    22-05-2014 @ 12:53 PM
    Location
    Macau
    Posts
    492
    From: Vietnam, U.S. to hold naval exercises
    Vietnam will hold joint naval drills with the US next month - a move which could further stoke tensions over the South China Sea....
    From: Phl, US to hold war games
    Manila, Philippines - The Philippines and the United States are set to embark on a joint naval exercise late this month, but officials said the tensions in the West Philippine Sea have nothing to do with the programmed war drill.
    Uncle Sam joining the fray, obviously to protect our oil, err, interests in these lovely potential vacation islands.

  17. #17
    Mid
    Mid is offline
    Thailand Expat
    Mid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    1,413
    China's Ominous South China Sea Claims
    Tuesday, 14 June 2011


    The confrontation between China and Vietnam is a confrontation over ownership of the whole body of water

    Sloppy reporting is giving the impression that the most recent dispute in the South China Sea between China and Vietnam has been about the Spratly and Paracel islands. Instead, this clash was in fact was an illustration of China's claim to the whole South China Sea, reaching close to the territorial waters of Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines rather than the islands.

    In this case, Chinese ships cut the cables of a Vietnamese sonar exploration vessel operating 120 nautical miles off the south-central Vietnam coast approximately due east of Nha Trang. No claim to the area where the Vietnamese ship was drilling could be made on the basis of sovereignty of all or any of the scattered groups of islets, rocks and reefs known as the Spratlys. Although almost none of the islands and rocks is capable of sustaining human habitation and the seabed is not part of a continental shelf there is an argument that they could support a claim for a 200 mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ) if it did not conflict with any other 200 mile claim.

    In this case the nearest of the Spratlys is at least 180 nautical miles from where the Vietnamese ship was attacked and clearly much closer to the Vietnam coast and on its continental shelf while the Spratlys lie the other side of deep water..

    Likewise the Vietnamese vessel was well over 200 miles from the closest of the Paracel Islands, the group of sandy islands and banks off the northern coast of Vietnam which were seized by China in 1974, just before the reunification of Vietnam.

    The distinction between island claims and sea claims is critical because it also involves the US. Washington remains neutral on the validity of the competing and overlapping islands claims but it is adamant about freedom of passage, including through EEZs. Hence it will in practice always line up against China's claims to the whole sea and also to China's narrow interpretation of freedom of passage.

    The Chinese action thus should be sending further warnings to Malaysia, the Philippines, Brunei and Indonesia about the extent of China's claims over the sea and the resources under its seabed. Existing gas fields off Palawan and Sarawak are already within areas claimed by China on its maps of the sea. The same applies to the huge gas fields, yet to be developed, close to Indonesia's Natuna islands, even though the islands themselves have not (as yet) been claimed by China.

    The Philippines has begun to react against the latest Chinese harassment of its fishermen operating in waters less than 200 miles off the Philippine coast with calls for strengthening of its feeble naval forces. It is also insisting that the seas generally known in English as the South China Sea should be known at least locally as the West Philippine Sea (the sea to the east of the Philippine archipelago is known as the Philippine Sea). China simply calls it the South Sea, Vietnam the East Sea. It was once known as the Cham sea – after the seafaring Malay-speaking Hindi kingdom which earlier flourished in central Vietnam.

    In the past, perceiving the Philippines to be weak China has often focused its attention on this part of its claim. Indeed its 1995 occupation of Mischief Reef (Panganiban island, Meiji Jiao) 130 miles off the Palawan coast in 1995, allegedly just a shelter for fishermen, was one of China's more provocative acts. In 2002 there was an agreement with ASEAN for peaceful resolution of sea disputes but this only caused a pause in disputes.

    ASEAN's problem however is that some members are reluctant to address the sea issue and China itself will only deal with it on a country-to-country basis, thus weakening such solidarity as ASEAN members can show. It does not help that Malaysia has been so far let alone by China, and Kuala Lumpur is keen not to attract Chinese anger by supporting Vietnam and the Philippines openly. To do so might cause Beijing to raise the explosive issue of Malay racial discrimination against its ethic Chinese citizens.

    But Vietnam is clearly made of sterner stuff and with its new cozy relationship with Washington (and links with Russia and India) are likely to be more effective in dealing with China than waffle from ASEAN's feel-good foreign ministries.

    asiasentinel.com

  18. #18
    Thailand Expat
    OhOh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 11:56 PM
    Location
    Where troubles melt like lemon drops
    Posts
    18,049
    China, Vietnam agree to resolve maritime dispute through negotiations

    "BEIJING, June 26 (Xinhua) -- China and Vietnam have agreed to address the dispute over the South China Sea through negotiations and peaceful, friendly consultations.

    Chinese State Councilor Dai Bingguo met with Vietnamese Vice Foreign Minister Ho Xuan Son, the special envoy of the Vietnamese leader, in Beijing on Saturday, according to a press release given by the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs Sunday.

    At the meeting, Dai expounded China's stance and opinions on developing the Sino-Vietnamese ties and on the maritime problems, while the Vietnamese special envoy conveyed the opinions from the Vietnamese leader on bilateral ties and about recent situation of the South China Sea.

    According to the press release, both sides agreed to implement the consensus reached by the two leaderships and adopt effective measures to jointly safeguard peace and stability of the South China Sea.

    The two sides also stressed making joint efforts so as to influence media reports in a positive manner and avoid actions detrimental to the bilateral friendship and mutual trust.

    The two sides also agreed to speed up the consultations over a pact regarding the fundamental principles to direct solving maritime disputes between Vietnam and China, pledging to work harder for signing of an agreement as early as possible.

    The two side also gave a nod to promptly implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and its follow-up actions for making substantive progress.

    Since the signing of the DOC in 2002, China has actively pushed forward the implementation of the follow-up actions of the DOC.

    In the past nine years, China and members with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) have hosted two senior officials' meetings and established a joint working group on the implementation of the DOC. The ASEAN groups Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam.

    The joint working group has reached consensus on six cooperative projects, including disaster prevention and mitigation in the South China Sea and coordination on marine search and rescue missions.

    The joint working group has held six meetings on a rotational basis between China and ASEAN nations since it was initiated in Manila of the Philippines in 2005.

    According to the Chinese Foreign Ministry, the two sides also touched upon the growth of bilateral ties.

    The two sides agreed that the sound and steady development of Sino-Vietnamese ties conforms with the fundamental interests and common aspiration of the two peoples and is conducive to the peace, stability and development in the region.

    Both China and Vietnam stressed advancing the growth of Sino-Vietnamese partnership characterized by comprehensive, strategic and cooperative features, through firmly adhering to the guideline highlighting "long-standing stability, future-orientation for good neighborly and friendly relations and all-round cooperation" and in line with the spirit of "good neighbors, good friends, good comrades and good partners."

    Before his meeting with State Councillor Dai, the Vietnamese special envoy also met and held talks with Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Zhang Zhijun, according the Chinese Foreign Ministry."

  19. #19
    Mid
    Mid is offline
    Thailand Expat
    Mid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    1,413
    Tensions Rise Over Fishermen’s Arrest
    Reported by RFA’s Vietnamese service.
    Translated by Viet Long.
    Written in English by Rachel Vandenbrink.
    2012-03-22

    The detention of two Vietnamese boats by Chinese authorities in disputed waters rekindles a territorial spat.


    China's territorial claim to the South China Sea includes two disputed island chains.
    RFA

    China warned Vietnam Thursday not to allow fishermen to intrude in its waters after Hanoi demanded the release of fishing boats and crew detained by Beijing near disputed islands in a new row between the neighbors.

    China’s Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said the detention of the two boats and fishermen near the Paracel Islands in the South China Sea last month was “lawful.”

    "China has indisputable sovereignty over the Paracel Islands and their adjacent waters," he said at a press briefing.

    "The Vietnamese side should take effective measures to educate and manage its fishermen and stop illegal fishing operations," Hong said, adding that fishing operations by Vietnamese ships in the area have infringed upon China's maritime rights and interests.

    Hanoi has said the fishermen were detained in Vietnamese waters.

    Vietnamese foreign ministry spokesman Luong Thanh Nghi on Wednesday demanded the "immediate and unconditional release of the fishermen.

    He said the arrests “seriously violated Vietnam's sovereignty" and China must stop its "hindrance of Vietnamese fishermen.”

    Fine

    The owner of one of the boats, who is also the brother of one of those arrested, told RFA he heard about the arrest in a phone call.

    “My brother Le Lon and several of his sons [and others] went out to the sea on Feb. 29, with 10 people in the boat in total. They called back home and said that they were arrested after two days.

    He said the owner of the other boat, identified as just Hien, said he had been told to pay a fine.

    “Mr. Hien called his wife and said my boat was [held] at the same time. He told his wife they asked them to pay 70,000 Chinese yuan [ U.S.$ 11,112],” he said.

    Luong Thanh Nghi said on Wednesday Vietnam would not pay the fine.

    Competing claims

    Vietnam, China, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan have all laid claim to all or part of the disputed territories.

    Last July, China and its Southeast Asian neighbors signed a set of guidelines on conduct in the region. However, a wider accord on which country owns what in the vast waters claimed by several nations remains elusive.

    A standoff between Beijing and Hanoi over Vietnamese fishermen detained last July sparked a wave of anti-China protests in Vietnam.

    Last week, Hanoi also said China had "seriously violated" Vietnam's sovereignty by allowing a Chinese oil company to open bidding for oil exploration near the Paracel islands.

    rfa.org

  20. #20
    Mid
    Mid is offline
    Thailand Expat
    Mid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    1,413
    Spratly Monks to Pray for 'Vietnamese Souls'
    Reported by Chan Nhu for RFA’ Vietnamese service.
    Translated by Viet Long.
    Written in English by Rachel Vandenbrink.
    2012-04-13

    Vietnam is sending monks to contested islands in the South China Sea.


    Vietnamese sailors train on Phan Vinh island in the Spratly archipelago, June 14, 2011.
    EYEPRESS NEWS

    Vietnam dispatched Friday five monks to perform religious rituals in previously abandoned temples in islands contested by China in the disputed South China Sea.

    The Buddhist monks, soon to be joined by a sixth, set sail Friday for the Spratlys, an archipelago of reefs and small islands for which Vietnam has overlapping territorial claims with China.

    Their trip is significant as it marks the 24th anniversary of a bloody battle between the two neighbors in the Spratlys region.

    Sixty-four sailors were killed by Chinese troops in the March 1988 battle on the Ga Mac Island which was under Vietnamese military control then.

    One of the monks, Thich Giac Nghia, told RFA they will pray for the Vietnamese who had fallen fighting in the disputed waters.

    “We will pray for the salvation of the souls of all Vietnamese who died in the East Sea,” he said, using the Vietnamese term to refer to the South China Sea.

    “We have gone there three times to pray for the peace of the souls of war martyrs and compatriots who died through many eras. We mean to bring the love and mercy of Buddhism along with the Triratna’s holy force to pray for their salvation,” he said.

    The prayers will be part of rituals on three temples in the Spratly island chain to be performed by the monks from Khanh Hoa province in Vietnam’s south central coast.

    Vietnam abandoned the temples in 1975 but has renovated them in recent years.

    Disputed waters

    Thich Giac Nghia said the group will stay for six months and minister to the small Vietnamese community of military personnel, meteorologists, and fishermen living in the archipelago.

    “After those ceremonies [in our previous trip], the soldiers and people over there invited us to come back. We commit ourselves to going there to maintain our religious lives, for self-improvement, and to guide those followers in their practice,” he said.

    In addition to Vietnam and China, Taiwan, Brunei, Malaysia, and the Philippines also claim all or part of the potentially oil-rich Spratlys, which cover more than 425,000 square kilometers (164,000 square miles) of water but have less than five square kilometers (2 square miles) of land.

    The islands have no indigenous inhabitants, but all claimants except Brunei have troops based there.

    Vietnam and China also have competing claims on the nearby Paracel Islands, where China’s arrest of Vietnamese fishermen sparked a fresh diplomatic spat in March.

    Beijing, which maintains that it holds "indisputable sovereignty" over the Spratlys and the Paracels as well as their “adjacent waters,” has pressed to solve the disputes through bilateral talks in an apparent bid to avoid internationalizing the issue.

    Beijing has been in the middle of a standoff with the Philippines since Tuesday, when Chinese ships prevented the Philippine navy from detaining Chinese fishermen who were allegedly caught poaching at the Scarborough Shoal.

    rfa.org

  21. #21
    Thailand Expat
    OhOh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 11:56 PM
    Location
    Where troubles melt like lemon drops
    Posts
    18,049
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
    I mean, "Spratly" doesn't sound very Chinese, now, does it
    China had names for the islands before England knew it existed.

  22. #22
    Fresh Seaman CaptainNemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    23-09-2019 @ 12:47 AM
    Location
    in t' naughty lass
    Posts
    5,447
    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
    I mean, "Spratly" doesn't sound very Chinese, now, does it
    China had names for the islands before England knew it existed.
    So did the Chams (probably). The Chinese didn't make a claim for the territory before England knew it existed, but England had a claim in before them.
    Aside from that, the history of the soveignty seems to go more or less like this:
    The Vietnamese empire claimed the whole area in 1816
    The French empire reasserted that claim in 1875
    The Chinese empire stated it was Res Nullius and not theirs throughout the 19th century, and unequivocally in 1898.
    The Chinese empire claimed the whole area between 1902 and 1909
    The Chinese empire fell to The Republic of China by 1912
    The Chinese Communist party was born in 1920, and has failed to defeat the Republic of China, who are the lawful inheritors of sovereignty of the Chinese empire
    The Republic of China in Taiwan resumed it's claim in 1945 following the defeat of Japan
    The People's Republic of China emerged in 1949
    The PRC used military force to seize control of some Vietnamese islands in 1974

    The PRC claim on the area has no leg to stand on in international law, the territory is Vietnamese; but even if the Chinese empire had made a claim before 1816, the claim would be legally that of Taiwan, not of the PRC.
    Beijing's claim is totally disputible, and padded out with irrelevant historical records that are not about sovereignty, but merely about awareness of the territory in exactly the same way as European countries mapped and "discovered" bits of the world, that they did not lay claim to.

    The other countries have no leg to stand on either, as they made recent Res Nullius claims long after the Vietnamese had staked their claim for the territory unchallenged for over a century by any of them; and unchallenged by China for nearly a century.

    Good on Vietnam for standing up to Chinese imperialist aggression.

  23. #23
    Banned

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Online
    03-06-2014 @ 09:01 PM
    Posts
    27,545
    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
    I mean, "Spratly" doesn't sound very Chinese, now, does it
    China had names for the islands before England knew it existed.
    Actually, probably had names before England existed....as did the cultures/civilisations of the broader region.

  24. #24
    Thailand Expat
    billy the kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Online
    19-11-2016 @ 07:57 PM
    Posts
    7,639
    why did kiss ure ass inger bomb the fok out off north vietnam ?

  25. #25
    Banned

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Online
    03-06-2014 @ 09:01 PM
    Posts
    27,545
    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid View Post
    why did kiss ure ass inger bomb the fok out off north vietnam ?
    The oddity...
    Most of the carpet boming came after the so-called "peace accords" of 1972.

    Vietnam [countrywide], Laos [different war, but the same], and of course Cambodia.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •