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    French Parliament approves ban on Islamic veils

    French parliament approves ban on face veils | World news | The Guardian

    They may be a bunch of surrender monkeys, but at least that have the guts to stand up of their cultural identity

    The lower House of the French parliament today approved a ban on Islamic veils.
    The move is popular among French voters, but has sparked serious concerns from Muslim and human rights groups.
    In the vote, 336 members of the French national assembly voted for the bill, with only one voting against. Most members of the Socialist party, the main opposition group, refused to participate in the vote.
    The ban on face-covering veils, or niqab, will go to the Senate in September, where it is also likely to be passed. Its biggest hurdle is likely to follow when it is scrutinised by the French constitutional watchdog scrutinises it.
    Some legal scholars say there is a chance the ban could be ruled unconstitutional.
    The main body representing French Muslims says face-covering veils are not required by Islam and not suitable in France, but it has expressed concern that the law will stigmatise Muslims in general.
    France has Europe's largest Muslim population, estimated to be around 5m of the country's 64m people. While ordinary headscarves are common, only around 1,900 women in France are thought to wear face-covering veils.
    At the national assembly, few dissenters have spoken out about civil liberties or fears of fanning anti-Islamic sentiment.
    Critics say the proposed ban is a cynical ploy by the government of the conservative president, Nicolas Sarkozy, to attract far-right voters.

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    Agree completely.

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    So some women who believe it's dirty to be uncovered in public will become prisoners in their own house.
    I dislike this kit and would like to see the end of it but the French government are fucking idiots for banning it.
    I assume full face helmets and winter clothes that cover the head will also be banned or is it OK as long as you happen to be white and non Muslim?
    Be happy dudes. It's a lot more fun than crying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    French government are fucking idiots for banning it.
    Are they Idiots in Turkey for banning this form of bondage as well?

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    I assume full face helmets and winter clothes that cover the head will also be banned or is it OK as long as you happen to be white and non Muslim?
    No, they won't be banned. They'll be used in the usual way.

    And BTW, don't you see North Africans as 'whites'? They'd be very upset if you thought of them as coloureds.

    I don't see the banning of the burqa or niqab or whatever you want to call it as freeing Muslim women (I couldn't care less if their husbands lock them up at home either), I see it as a step towards more security for the rest of the population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    French government are fucking idiots for banning it.
    Are they Idiots in Turkey for banning this form of bondage as well?
    Yes.
    They ban all religious things and it's wrong. A lass can't wear a head covering or a cross in uni or she will be sent home.

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    This has nothing to do with ethnic background or creed, it do to with the fact that it is not required by Islam and it is just not acceptable to the vast majority of French people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo333 View Post
    This has nothing to do with ethnic background or creed, it do to with the fact that it is not required by Islam and it is just not acceptable to the vast majority of French people.
    And Spanish. And German. And British.

    (Of course we wouldn't even sniff at a ban in Britain, the do-gooders would be squealing like pigs and the mussies would threaten to blow up the tube again).

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by crazy dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    French government are fucking idiots for banning it.
    Are they Idiots in Turkey for banning this form of bondage as well?
    Yes.
    They ban all religious things and it's wrong. A lass can't wear a head covering or a cross in uni or she will be sent home.

    women with bags over their heads are also banned in Tunisia and soon to be in Egypt, nice to see these countries making some progress in the realm of womens rights, and good to see the French supporting such moves. Sadly the UK caved in years ago and will not be having the balls to do the same, terrified as they are of 'offending' the so easily offended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    So some women who believe it's dirty to be uncovered in public will become prisoners in their own house.
    so what? why should the public safety and the rights of woman be sacrificed because of the irrational fears of nutters. It is not even a relgious issue, fvck these idiots, if they don't like it they can go and live in an Islamic country.

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    It's only a £125 fine for wearing one.

    Better that law-abiding members of the public be allowed to tear it straight off them, similar to a citizens arrest.

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    Just wear a balaclava instead.
    Perhaps with a hoody, Levi do some nice ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy dog
    e they Idiots in Turkey for banning this form of bondage as well?
    Yes and hence the islamic party (ak) got about 46,6% of the votes. But that is a different law you should look it up. I have never seen burqa/neqab in turkey and as far as i know those are used in a very very small minority of some muslim countries. I read that in most european countries there are just a few hundered women wearing these things

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo333
    This has nothing to do with ethnic background or creed, it do to with the fact that it is not required by Islam and it is just not acceptable to the vast majority of French people.
    A lot of things are not acceptable to the majority, should they be banned? And not only is the niqab etc nothing really islamic but "hijab" ( covering of the hair primarily) is never mentioned in the qur'an. It was copied from the persian aristocratic women and byzatium, who used the covering of the hair as a status symbol. But explain this to some people who havn't read a book in their lives....lol. There is more to this but this is not the place to go in details.

    My problem with this issue and its media exposure is that it is just a symbolic gesture which will have a result that is not to my liking. Some muslim youth will consider the wearing of these things also as a symbolic gesture back, this is the way that humans always have reacted in these situations. The real issues lay elsewhere but nobody has the vision to see and act upon the problems real solution which is way more complicated than 1 government term.

    Crazy, egyptian government is one of the major causes of the so called al qaeda ( which actually was never a organization at the time they called it so but it was called the muslim brotherhood) Egypt doesn't care shit about womens rights, it is a dictatorship which does everything to supress the opposition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the dogcatcher View Post
    Just wear a balaclava instead.
    Try walking into a bank wearing a balaclava. I think you'd likely draw unwanted attention wearing a balaclava just about anywhere without good reason come to think of it.

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    Tycoon plans

    Here we go!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo333 View Post
    Tycoon plans

    Here we go!!!
    Yes, and I wonder who signs the cheques.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonraker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by the dogcatcher View Post
    Just wear a balaclava instead.
    Try walking into a bank wearing a balaclava. I think you'd likely draw unwanted attention wearing a balaclava just about anywhere without good reason come to think of it.
    Your not allowed to walk into a bank or petrol station wearing your motorcycle helmet, it is courtesy to take it off to show you're not about to steal stuff.

    However, this is, as was mentioned not against humanity by race or creed or ethnicity, but is in fact a religion! A blind truth organisation that has no real world implication for doing something like this (which is why men dont wear them), they do in some countries wear long gown dresses and head wear.

    The point is surely that if it were cultural and not religous and worn by choice(without suppression from others) then this could be seen as wrong (if it itself did not restrict and impose human rights issues). It is not, and whilst i couldnt say that it is 100% right it is certainly something that points out why all deity religious acts should be severly scrutinised for thier ridicolous habits.

    Woman are equal, and only Deity religions and other flawed ways of thinking allow men to rule thier suppresive nature in this way.


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    Meanwhile, in the UK.

    Middle Eastern-style 'squat' toilets are to be fitted in a shopping centre after bosses attended a cultural awareness course. WCs at Rochdale's Exchange shopping centre will include two Nile pans alongside traditional western toilets when they reopen following a refurbishment
    You may have heard of Rochdale...

    Rochdale hit the headlines during this year's General Election campaign when pensioner Gillian Duffy was dismissed by Gordon Brown as a 'bigoted woman' when she voiced concern about immigration
    I don't have enough posts for a link.

    It's in today's Mail.

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    I worked in Rochdale for two years, it's a town of inbreds and fuck-brains.

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    it is a mask

    The safety issue that should make it a constitutional restriction is that it is in effect a face mask. In most jurisdictions in the US no one is allowed to go out in public in a face mask. However, when muslims wear it where I live they get a pass as no one wants to open that can of worms.

    There was one court case here where some muslim women wanted their drivers license photos to be taken with it on. How couold this be a photo ID when it shows nothing but some eyes? The court decided on common sense for a change and ruled that the license ID photo had to be bare faced.

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    BBC News - Damian Green says burka ban would be 'un-British'

    Not a hope in hell of such a bill being passed in the UK

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    A View from a Muslim Woman..

    Burka ban: Why must I cast off the veil? - Telegraph


    By Nesrine Malik
    Published: 11:19PM BST 17 Jul 2010
    309 Comments


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    Nesrine Malik, 29, with her abaya, a robe-like black overgarment she wears with a headscarf and face-covering veil when visiting her family in Saudi Arabia Photo: David Rose

    Nesrine Malik in full Islamic dress: 'The niqab appeals to the voyeur in all of us' Photo: David Rose


    The first time I had to wear a niqab was a thoroughly unpleasant experience. My parents, originally from Sudan but living in London, had just moved to Saudi Arabia. Before we joined them, four black abayas (full-length cloaks) and niqabs (full face-veil) were dispatched to me and my three sisters.

    At the age of 18, the thought of covering my body in a shapeless black gown and hiding my face so that only my eyes would show was inconceivable. It was humiliating, violating, dehumanising. Upon donning the headpiece, my body language immediately changed, becoming apologetic, withdrawn and subdued. Wearing it seemed to empower all the men around me and put me firmly in my place as inferior.


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    On landing in Saudi Arabia, women – all of whom were wearing the veil – were channelled into a separate line for processing. My eyes stung with tears of rage and shame. Most of all, I felt infantilised, stripped of the right to dress how I pleased due simply to the fact that I was a woman, and hence, purely a sexual object to be concealed lest it should inflame desire. For the first few days, it felt almost comical, like some absurd game of macabre fancy dress.
    On a practical level, it was cumbersome, hot and uncomfortable. Eating or drinking in public became a chore, as food has to be manoeuvred gingerly under the veil or taken abruptly in small bites. In Saudi’s overwhelming heat, temperatures regularly reach 45C and any physical outdoor activity, even walking, is out of the question. I became anti-social, hardly able to wait until I got home before tearing off the ghastly garb.
    The niqab and the burka are a particularly extreme interpretation of the Islamic requirement for modest dress, and were never part of my Muslim upbringing in London. Because of this, I did not feel particularly pious wearing them in Saudi. If anything, it seemed like a throwback to tribal, pre-Islamic times.
    Over the next three years, however, my opposition gradually eroded. Initially an ugly burden, the abaya and niqab became a comfort and, eventually, a delight. It was a relief not to have to think about what to wear.
    The burka can be the most versatile of capsule wardrobes. The uniform black costume has a charming egalitarianism about it, and is both a social and physical leveller. Once social status or physical beauty cannot be established, all sorts of hierarchies are flattened.



    Fashion-wise, it was not as insipid a garment as I had feared. When there is little option in what you can wear, the smallest details start to count. I realised upon closer inspection that there was a plethora of abayas for me to choose from. Subtly embellished gowns and veils could be found in Riyadh’s glamorous malls. If none suited, bespoke tailors executed your particular design and preference beautifully. Light fabrics and slim-line empire silhouettes rendered the uniform elegant and feminine – regal, even.



    Eye make-up and footwear took on extra significance. As the feet were the only part of the body one could legitimately flaunt, a good pedicure was not only necessary, it was an integral part of the ensemble. All of a woman’s sexuality resided in how she carried herself, and how groomed her extremities were. In that context, the outfit became empowering, enabling a reclamation of one’s sexuality by not fulfilling modern commercialised definitions of what makes a woman attractive.



    Ironically, Saudi Arabia did not feel a more chaste place. Indeed, imposing the niqab may have had the opposite effect, so starved were the two sexes of the flirtatious attention that we all take for granted in the West. I have never been so indiscriminately pursued by men. And I was therefore thankful for the anonymity the attire gave me – a privilege the men did not share. The niqab appeals to the voyeur in all of us, cosily secreted away behind a veil, but still able to view the world go by.
    In contrast to my earlier eagerness to rip off the abaya whenever in sanctum, I began to wear it when I did not have to. Now I live in the UK again and work for a private equity firm, I would never wear it to the office. But, as a fashionable 29-year-old, I sometimes pop it on to go to the corner shop rather than show the world my tracksuit bottoms.



    I’m not alone in finding the abaya a comfortable garment. On my return from Saudi Arabia, other women on my plane left it until a few minutes before landing to remove their cloaks and emerge from the washrooms without their niqab. Now when I fly back from seeing my parents in Saudi Arabia, I keep on the uniform for as long as is convenient. Immigration staff in the UK are so much more hostile to those who wear it.



    Given the choice, I would never have embraced the niqab. My initial teenage revulsion was inspired by the fact that it was mandatory. Implicit in any law that proscribes women’s dress lies the most sinister, ideologically myopic assumption that a woman cannot be trusted not to succumb to pressure to dress a certain way.


    In the same way that Muslim countries accuse the hyper-sexualised West of corrupting their women, European societies cannot fathom that a woman would want to wear a niqab or burka unless it is attributable to some brute influence either by a man or general social coercion. In that sense, I do not see a potential ban on the burka in the UK as any different to the oppression in Saudi Arabia in terms of how it assumes that the way a woman dresses is never really down to her.


    The French National Assembly’s vote to ban Islamic veils in public is the latest such measure taken by governments across Europe. Days after the Belgian parliament became the first in Europe to pass a bill banning Islamic veils, police in northern Italy fined a Muslim woman for wearing a niqab on her way to a mosque.
    In Britain, Conservative backbencher Philip Hollobone last week called for a burka ban, tabling a Private Members’ Bill that would make it illegal for anyone to cover their face in public.



    There is a deeply disturbing discourse developing in Europe, one that equates the niqab with Islamic radicalism, and which facilitates a witch-hunt of Muslims under the cover of concern for women – or “racism veiled as liberation”, as the writer Madeleine Bunting put it. There are indeed several ways in which Muslim women are oppressed, not best interpreted by what they wear.



    A mix of Islamophobia, busy-bodying feminism and resurgent nationalist sentiment has contributed to this demonisation of a minority of Muslim women. The niqab and burka are indeed powerful symbols and reminders of the ongoing fissures between the West and Islam. Indeed, it is understandable that something as final and ostensibly exclusionary as a face veil would be alienating. But surely that lies more in the realm of social inappropriateness?


    I would never permanently cover my face in the UK, but by the same token nor would I wear a mini-skirt in Dubai. Most people, men and women, self-regulate and dress in a way to conform to convention. To legislate against the extremes would be a highly intrusive extension of authority. To mobilise the mechanism of the state to tackle Islamic fundamentalism via cracking down on the face veil is not the answer.



    To force a female to remove her veil is just as subjugating as forcing her to cover.





    There is depressing similarity in the way different cultures view changes in women’s dress as the first harbinger of national invasion and subsumation. It is a heavy burden for women to bear. I sincerely hope that no 18-year-old Muslim girl will ever arrive in the UK and be forced to take off her niqab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo333 View Post
    BBC News - Damian Green says burka ban would be 'un-British'

    Not a hope in hell of such a bill being passed in the UK
    I agree. The EDL seem to support use of face coverings.





    And there is a lot of US support to keep them legal.


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    Of course all Muslims are anti west.


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    ^^

    Mr Fred

    It is like comparing apples and pears, the EDL protestors are obviously unwilling to be identified for whatever reason, but they don’t go about like this everyday.

    The Islamic face cover/veil is also about hiding the wearer’s identity and again the reasons are not clear, but they wear it on a everyday basis, that my friend is the difference.

    Last edited by jojo333; 19-07-2010 at 01:54 PM.

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