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  1. #1
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    'Israel will never say sorry'

    'Israel will never say sorry'
    Jul 5, 2010


    Israel will never say sorry for defending itself, a senior government official said on Monday.
    PHOTO: REUTERS

    JERUSALEM - ISRAEL will never say sorry for defending itself, a senior government official said on Monday after Turkey demanded an apology for a deadly commando raid on an aid convoy to Gaza.

    'Israel will never apologise for defending its citizens,' the official told AFP.

    'Of course, we regret the loss of life but it was not the Israeli side that initiated the violence.' His remarks were made after Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu vowed Ankara would sever diplomatic ties with Israel unless it apologised over the operation which left nine people dead, all of them Turkish nationals.

    But Israeli officials reacted angrily to Turkey's threats. 'When you want want an apology, you don't use threats or ultimatums,' Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor told AFP. 'Everything leads us to believe that Turkey has another agenda in mind,' he said, without giving further details.

    Mr Davutoglu was quoted as telling Turkey's Hurriyet newspaper that 'relations will be broken' unless Israel apologises for the May 31 attack or admits the raid was unjust.

    The minister also said Turkey had closed its airspace to all Israeli military flights in reaction to the raid.

    straitstimes.com

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    The simple concepts of self-defense and pre-emptive strikes to preserve freedom just seem beyond the grasp of most Europeans and a fair percentage of the people of other lands. Sad, really. Viva Israel.

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    Religious {and political} zealotry. A lose-lose situation for all concerned.

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    The fuckwits on the ships set out with the intention of provoking Israel into a violent action.

    The Israelis offered them a port where they, the Israelis could check the cargo before forwarding it to Palestine, but that was not going to be on the agenda for the 'aid convoy'.

    A bunch of dumb shits who really didn't want to listen to the warning - Don't fuck with the Israelis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itchy
    the Israelis could check the cargo before forwarding it to Palestine
    I don't think this is true, is it...

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    The Aid convoy had the desired effect, and the Israeli blockade of Gaza has been loosened as a result of the publicity and condemnation. Thats a lot more important than a grudging apology from some lying politician.

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    ^^ Some quotes from your articles (though I admit you're at least partially correct).

    "It prevents materials such as cement from entering Gaza, which it says could be used for military purposes."

    "Much of the aid that the flotilla is carrying appears on Israel's list of goods that are banned from entering the strip, such as building material."

    "Ships leaving from Turkey had 2,100 tonnes of cement, 750 tonnes of iron, 50 tonnes of marble, 98 generators, 90 prefabricated homes, 16 full playgrounds and textiles."

    "The Guardian newspaper reported today that autopsy results showed they had been shot a total of 30 times, many at close range. Five were killed by gunshots to the head, it said."

    "We have to get aid into Gaza. There is 80% aid dependency and 44% unemployment. Last year 100,000 people came to us because they could not feed their families, this year it was 300,000 so deep poverty has gone up three times,"

    "Thousands of five and six year olds can't go to UN schools today because of this illegal blockade, this collective punishment of 1.5 million people, which is why we say lift the sea blockade, lift the land blockade. We know we can do it and do it in a way which adequately accommodates Israel's legitimate security concerns."

    U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay increased the pressure.

    "International humanitarian law prohibits starvation of civilians as a method of warfare and ... it is also prohibited to impose collective punishment on civilians,"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    50 tonnes of marble

    Marble !

    WTf they want Marble for?

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    Weapons according to the Israelis...

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    build a mosque maybe.
    how much more tragic can the gaza situation get.
    an apology,,,that would be like asking god for an apology .

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    Not partly right - I am right.

    The Israelis offered to take the cargo at their port, inspect it and pass it to Gaza.

    The Flotilla rejected that offer because they wanted a conflict - They got a conflict.

    -----

    How many times they were shot and at what range is a result of the decision to reject the offer and fuck with the Israelis. NO BODY NEED HAVE BEEN HURT IF THEY HAD ACCEPTED ISRAEL'S OFFER.


    And the conditions in Gaza are a lot more complicated than simply being able to be placed at the feet of the Israelis.

    It is as much the intransigence of Hamas, as is it of the Israelis, that is leaving the people of Gaza in the mess they are in. And Hamas are certainly as culpable of human rights abuses and executions.

    Read the Israeli press and you'll find plenty of discussion from people want to talk to the Palestinians, critical of the Israeli government policies.
    The only time you hear about people who have voiced opinions against Hamas or suggesting peace with Israeli on the Gaza side of the wire is when they turn up in a news report about another Palestinian murdered by Hamas.

    Hamas need only renounce it's avowed aim to destroy Israel and the rewards of peace can be theirs.

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    And let's remind ourselves.

    The Palestinians bleated on about wanting the Israelis out of Gaza. The Israelis moved out (without asking the Palestinians for permission to move out) - Hamas moved in, murdered the opposition and then commenced launching attacks on Israel from Gaza.

    That's when the blockade was set up.

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    ^^ down to interpretation, so I agree that you're partly right. Taking off items that the rest of the world consider vital aid items is our area of descrepency; something tells me we won't agree, so... best wishes.

    ^ a rather simplified version... (land grabs spring to mind, as do large fences built on someone else's land, and illegally controlling all borders by force; ahhh, back to the start.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid View Post
    build a mosque maybe.
    how much more tragic can the gaza situation get.
    an apology,,,that would be like asking god for an apology .
    Which God?

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    And the fence was built to put an end to bombings in Israel - a response which has been largely effective.

    Yes built on Palestinian land (read 'Don't Fuck with the Israelis")

    And I have to wonder, does it ever occur to the Palestinians that when some murderous thug decides to launch a missile at Israel from their back yard that there's is going to be a payback?

    If Hamas are right and doing what is right for Palestine, what he Palestinians want Hamas to do, then why is it necessary for Hamas to murder journalists, teachers, people who speak out against what Hamas are doing?

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    Okay Itchy, we'll stick to your plan; and watch generations of kids dying on both sides; great idea...

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    There you go again. More emotional shit.

    The plan, as you mention it, was going very well if you remember.

    Camp David 2000 and the earlier Oslo Accords - Israel made wide ranging concessions to the Palestinians - But Arafat stepped away from a deal that would have undoubtedly brought peace and prosperity to the people he professed to represent.

    But of course, let's blame the Israelis.

  19. #19
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    It seems that it was Arafat's plan to watch generations of kids dying on both sides of the conflict - and it seems his plan is working.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rural Surin View Post
    Religious {and political} zealotry. A lose-lose situation for all concerned.
    I agree, the Mussies need to stop killing in the name of their so called religion.

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    ^^ I'm not blaming anyone, I think Israel has a right to exist, and so does Palestine; both have a right to a life and a life for their children.

    Sorry to get emotional over death and murder; for folk on both sides...

    It is a very difficult situation, but violence has proved (surprise surprise) to be no answer for either side. No blame required, just a bit of sense by the powerful.

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    Israel boarded a ship legitamatly flying the flag of a Nato member.
    Assurances had been given to Israel by Turkey that there were no weapons aboard.
    There were civilians killed.

    'dont fuck with Israel' is a stance you can take when you dont need aid from the USA or trade from the rest of the world.
    America could force both sides to the table but chooses not to.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bower View Post
    America
    So why is it our problem?

    I thought everyone wanted the US to stay out of everyone's affairs.
    Last edited by chitown; 05-07-2010 at 10:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chitown View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bower View Post
    America
    So why is our problem?
    Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain - it'll just confuse you more. Puppet masters have their place, Surely?

  25. #25
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    America could force both sides to the table but chooses not to.
    You need to revisit Camp David 2000 - Huge pressure from the US on both sides to come to an agreement - but Arafat walked away from the deal. Not the Israelis - Arafat.

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