Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 49
  1. #1
    Party Animal!
    Fuzzy Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Online
    10-05-2012 @ 09:17 PM
    Location
    Wirral
    Posts
    2,084

    Angry UK: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation

    BBC News - 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation




    MI5 alleged Abid Naseer wrote coded e-mails to an al-Qaeda member

    The alleged leader of an al-Qaeda plot to bomb targets in north-west England has won his appeal against deportation.
    A special immigration court said Abid Naseer was an al-Qaeda operative - but could not be deported because he faced torture or death back home in Pakistan.
    Mr Naseer, 23, was one of 10 Pakistani men arrested last April as part of a massive counter-terrorism operation in Liverpool and Manchester.
    Student, Ahmad Faraz Khan, also 23, won his appeal on similar grounds.
    The security services believed the men were planning to attack within days of their arrest, but neither was charged.
    'Stigmatised for life'
    A Conservative minister indicated the government would not, after all, be changing the law to allow the deportations to go ahead.
    This is despite a Tory election promise that the Human Rights Act would be abolished.
    The Home Secretary, Theresa May, said she would not be appealing against the ruling, handed down by the Special Immigration Appeals Commission.

    The men's lawyer Gareth Peirce says the ruling was 'not acceptable'

    She said: "We are disappointed that the court has ruled that Abid Naseer and Ahmad Faraz Khan should not be deported to Pakistan, which we were seeking on national security grounds.
    "As the court agreed, they are a security risk to the UK. We are now taking all possible measures to ensure they do not engage in terrorist activity."
    The lawyer for both men, Gareth Peirce, said the ruling was the "worst of all possible worlds" because they were flagged up as being involved in terrorism based on evidence "one is not told".
    She said: "It's no victory even though the young men have won, in the sense that they have been stigmatised for life and put at risk or even further risk in their own country on the basis of the shocking phenomenon of secret evidence.
    "It's no way to conduct justice. If people have committed a crime, put them on trial."

    ANALYSIS


    By Dominic Casciani, BBC home affairs correspondent

    This judgement shines a public light on the difference between intelligence assessments and hard evidence - with the tribunal concluding that MI5 was on the right side of the line.
    Its conclusions will be regarded by security and police chiefs as a vindication of their assessment that there was a plot, even though detectives never found a bomb and the men were never charged with an offence.

    Abid Naseer and Ahmad Faraz Khan will be added to the list of other suspects in similar situations - men who are unwanted by the UK but, simultaneously, cannot be deported because they could be tortured.

    The home secretary's answer for some suspects is to place them under a control order, a form of house arrest that restricts their movements.

    Both men may fight on. The new government, meanwhile, has had a taste of the realities of counter-terrorism judgement calls - and the legal duty of courts to protect suspects from harm.

    The ruling effectively means that MI5's case against two of the men has been supported by the courts even though neither of them was ever charged with a criminal offence.

    Two other men also arrested in the raids lost their deportation appeals. Abdul Wahab Khan, 27, and Tariq Ur Rehman, 38, have already returned to Pakistan.
    In his judgement, Mr Justice Mitting said Mr Naseer was sending e-mails to a contact in Pakistan - and that the recipient was an "al-Qaeda operative".
    The e-mails were said to be at the heart of the plot and culminated in a message sent to Pakistan in April 2009 in which Mr Naseer said he had set a date to marry, something MI5 said was code for an attack date.
    "We are satisfied that Naseer was an al-Qaeda operative who posed and still poses a serious threat to the national security of the United Kingdom," the judgement said.
    It added: "Subject to the issue of safety on return, it is conducive to the public good that he should be deported."
    The judge said Ahmad Faraz Khan had become a "knowing party" to the plan because he had "undergone a radical change in view" between leaving home and studying in the UK.
    But in both cases, Mr Justice Mitting said it was impossible to return the men to Pakistan.
    "There is a long and well-documented history of disappearances, illegal detention and of the torture and ill-treatment of those detained, usually to produce information, a confession or compliance," said the judgement.

    WHERE ARE THEY NOW
    Abid Naseer: In prison under immigration powers
    Faraz Khan: Bailed to a secret location, movements restricted
    Tariq ur Rehman: Voluntarily returned to Pakistan
    Abdul Wahab Khan: Voluntarily returned to Pakistan
    Shoaib Khan (cleared): Voluntarily returned to Pakistan but wants to resume studies in UK

    Turning to the three men who have already left the UK, Mr Justice Mitting said Abdul Wahab Khan and Tariq ur Rehman were committed Islamists who knew of Mr Naseer's plan.
    Student Shoaib Khan, however, won his appeal, with the court saying there was no evidence of wrongdoing against him.
    His lawyer Amjad Malik told the BBC that his 31-year-old client, who is in Pakistan, wanted to return to the UK to resume his studies.
    The government's independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, the Liberal Democrat peer Lord Carlile, said the Human Rights Act prevented Mr Naseer's return.
    He said: "We do not want people who have been held to be terrorists walking our streets. We therefore have to start looking for a different way of dealing with individual cases."
    He said he hoped the government would look at ways of ensuring people would be treated properly if they were returned to their native countries.
    BBC political correspondent Laura Kuenssberg said Cabinet Office Minister Francis Maude had suggested the coalition government would, for now, retain the Human Rights Act.
    This is despite a promise in the Conservative manifesto to replace it with "a British Bill of Rights".
    Shami Chakrabarti, director of human rights group Liberty, said terror suspects needed a fair trial while those convicted "should be sent to secure prisons, not put on planes to face torture or make more trouble elsewhere."
    The controversial affair began last April when the Metropolitan Police's then head of counter-terrorism, Assistant Commissioner Bob Quick, inadvertently revealed details of the investigation.
    Mr Quick resigned after he was photographed carrying clearly visible secret documents outside 10 Downing Street.
    Police brought their operation forward and raided a series of locations across Liverpool, Manchester and Lancashire, eventually detaining 11 men.
    Ten of them were from Pakistan, who were all either close friends or loosely known to each other.
    Mr Quick told the BBC that at the time they feared an imminent attack.
    But no explosives were found and all of the men were released without charge after two weeks.
    They were immediately detained again under immigration laws after the then home secretary sought their deportation, saying they were still a threat to national security.

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Last Online
    29-02-2012 @ 08:44 PM
    Posts
    3,539
    I guess english taxpayer will enjoy to pay for such a guest.

    The same story in France with a Tunisian jihadist:

    Justice can not sent him home, because the poor could be mistreated in Tunisia. So the jihadist who has served only three years in prison for terrorism, is now the responsibility of the French taxpayer for an indefinite period. A host in a Luçon hotel in South-Vendée.

  3. #3
    Enjoys sheep
    mr Fred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    01-05-2011 @ 07:47 PM
    Location
    Barnsley, Central Java
    Posts
    1,842
    I was going to say I don't believe this but sadly I do.
    That makes it no less fucking stupid.
    This bloke should be either up against a wall awaiting well aimed bullets or kicked out back to Pakistan where they will do the dirty work for the UK government.

    Human rights, bollocks. He doesn't give a flying fuck about the people he tries to bomb so screw him.
    You need to be human to get human rights and I don't believe this bastard quite fits that description.
    Be happy dudes. It's a lot more fun than crying.

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat
    Smug Farang Bore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last Online
    01-04-2019 @ 08:04 PM
    Posts
    3,867
    ^, ^^ AGREE..!

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat
    the dogcatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    24-12-2015 @ 06:41 PM
    Location
    My body is not a temple, It's the hell where I reside.
    Posts
    5,708
    Any chance of common sense prevailing at any time soon in yhe UK?

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    33,475
    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    Human rights, bollocks. He doesn't give a flying fuck about the people he tries to bomb so screw him. You need to be human to get human rights and I don't believe this bastard quite fits that description.
    ... detectives never found a bomb and the men were never charged with an offence... neither of them was ever charged with a criminal offence.
    I don't suppose it matters to anyone that they weren't actually charged or found guilty of anything? No, didn't think so. As you were then.

  7. #7
    Enjoys sheep
    mr Fred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    01-05-2011 @ 07:47 PM
    Location
    Barnsley, Central Java
    Posts
    1,842
    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    Human rights, bollocks. He doesn't give a flying fuck about the people he tries to bomb so screw him. You need to be human to get human rights and I don't believe this bastard quite fits that description.
    ... detectives never found a bomb and the men were never charged with an offence... neither of them was ever charged with a criminal offence.
    I don't suppose it matters to anyone that they weren't actually charged or found guilty of anything? No, didn't think so. As you were then.
    My understanding is the security services don't always go ahead as it may put informants of security methods in public view so leaving these people in danger or that method of watching them useless.
    I assume this is the reason he was not prosecuted even with such damming evidence as a bomb in his house.
    That bomb alone is more than enough to see a foreign national kicked out of a country.
    In Indonesia he would probably have been shot while being arrested.
    Call him a lucky fucker he decided to go to a soft arsed country.

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    33,475
    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    I assume this is the reason he was not prosecuted even with such damming evidence as a bomb in his house.
    You've lost me there, what bomb? From the article: "... detectives never found a bomb".

    In fact the only apparent evidence mentioned in the article is the MI5 interpreting an e-mail where Naseer wrote that he'd set a date to marry as code for an attack. Even accepting that there was further evidence if there's one thing that everyone should be aware of in this day and age it's the fallibility of so-called 'intelligence' agencies.

  9. #9
    Thailand Expat
    the dogcatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    24-12-2015 @ 06:41 PM
    Location
    My body is not a temple, It's the hell where I reside.
    Posts
    5,708
    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    I assume this is the reason he was not prosecuted even with such damming evidence as a bomb in his house.
    You've lost me there, what bomb? From the article: "... detectives never found a bomb".

    In fact the only apparent evidence mentioned in the article is the MI5 interpreting an e-mail where Naseer wrote that he'd set a date to marry as code for an attack. Even accepting that there was further evidence if there's one thing that everyone should be aware of in this day and age it's the fallibility of so-called 'intelligence' agencies.
    Typical bloody solicitor.
    Great at writing legalese, even better at writing analese.
    Falling asleep and waking up is not the same as passing out and coming to.

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    33,475
    Typical knee-jerk, the-sky-is-falling, Mussies-under-the-bed, reactionaires.

    Ready to convict, sentence, and even torture and kill purely on the basis that he's a 'Mussie' so must be guilty of something. Legal process be damned... Unless it's your rights we're talking about of course.

  11. #11
    Enjoys sheep
    mr Fred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    01-05-2011 @ 07:47 PM
    Location
    Barnsley, Central Java
    Posts
    1,842
    This morning, while walking to the bus station, I had the unfornunate experience to meet an Islamic nutter.
    He had no idea I'm Muslim but he saw my white skin and saw a kafir.
    He saw this kafir with eyes that were so filled with hate for what he assumed I am, he was totally unable to look at me or even answer my greeting of 'how are you?' (in Indonesian).
    These extremists are seriously dangerous and there is no room to sod about being nice to them.

    The last time I saw that look was from a man who las later killed in a shootout with police. Liberal thinking is fine but not when you are dealing with evil bastards.

  12. #12
    R.I.P.
    DrB0b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD
    Posts
    17,158
    ^Are you going to tell us about

    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    such damming evidence as a bomb in his house
    I can't see anything about that in the OP. Did you just make it up? Why?

  13. #13
    Enjoys sheep
    mr Fred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    01-05-2011 @ 07:47 PM
    Location
    Barnsley, Central Java
    Posts
    1,842
    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    ^Are you going to tell us about

    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    such damming evidence as a bomb in his house
    I can't see anything about that in the OP. Did you just make it up? Why?
    I was on a bus at the time so I may have mis-read the link. I'll look when I get home.
    my comments about extremists stand. These are evil and dangerous people. There is no room for being nice and sodding about with them. I did notice he defence was not that he had done nothing wrong but about the punishment he would get.

  14. #14
    Thailand Expat
    dirk diggler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Online
    Today @ 05:06 AM
    Location
    Down South
    Posts
    3,410
    Feed 'em to the pigs, Errol.

  15. #15
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    33,475
    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    notice he defence was not that he had done nothing wrong but about the punishment he would get.
    I think you've misconstrued that as well. There's no 'defence' per se, because he was never even charged with anything.

    His grounds for fighting against the deportation order were based on the grounds that he'd be tortured -- a not unreasonable fear at that -- which is a seperate question.

  16. #16
    Dislocated Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    The thin ice of modern life.
    Posts
    3,745
    Tory election promise that the Human Rights Act would be abolished.
    WTF!

    If people have committed a crime, put them on trial.
    Exactly.

  17. #17
    Enjoys sheep
    mr Fred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    01-05-2011 @ 07:47 PM
    Location
    Barnsley, Central Java
    Posts
    1,842
    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    ^Are you going to tell us about

    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    such damming evidence as a bomb in his house
    I can't see anything about that in the OP. Did you just make it up? Why?
    You are correct and I was wrong. Now I've re-read the link (without the bus shaking me more than a dildo in a washing machine on fat spin) I can see my error and apologise.

    A special immigration court said Abid Naseer was an al-Qaeda operative - but could not be deported because he faced torture or death back home in Pakistan.
    "We are satisfied that Naseer was an al-Qaeda operative who posed and still poses a serious threat to the national security of the United Kingdom," the judgement said.
    That makes me stand by what I have posted regardless of my earlier errors.
    As I said, I met some of the now dead terrorists in Indonesia and had the misfortune to meet some more seriously dodgy sods this morning that had pure hate in their eyes because they saw what they thought I was rather than the reality.
    That bugger gave me the willies big style and that doesn't happen often.
    These people really are a serious danger to everyone anywhere near them and there is no room for fucking about.

  18. #18
    Enjoys sheep
    mr Fred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    01-05-2011 @ 07:47 PM
    Location
    Barnsley, Central Java
    Posts
    1,842
    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Typical knee-jerk, the-sky-is-falling, Mussies-under-the-bed, reactionaires.

    Ready to convict, sentence, and even torture and kill purely on the basis that he's a 'Mussie' so must be guilty of something. Legal process be damned... Unless it's your rights we're talking about of course.
    I can't agree with that because I'm also a 'muzzie'. I do see a serious danger and no one really arguing that he is anything other than that.
    I've been hunting round several Muslim forums that I use and there is not one word of support for him I can find so far except from his dad.

  19. #19
    Dislocated Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    The thin ice of modern life.
    Posts
    3,745
    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Typical knee-jerk, the-sky-is-falling, Mussies-under-the-bed, reactionaires.

    Ready to convict, sentence, and even torture and kill purely on the basis that he's a 'Mussie' so must be guilty of something. Legal process be damned... Unless it's your rights we're talking about of course.
    I can't agree with that because I'm also a 'muzzie'. I do see a serious danger and no one really arguing that he is anything other than that.
    I've been hunting round several Muslim forums that I use and there is not one word of support for him I can find so far except from his dad.
    Did you find any condemnation of him?

  20. #20
    Enjoys sheep
    mr Fred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    01-05-2011 @ 07:47 PM
    Location
    Barnsley, Central Java
    Posts
    1,842
    Quote Originally Posted by ItsRobsLife View Post

    Did you find any condemnation of him?
    You are clearly a bright bloke in asking that question. (Makes note to hit a green your way). Not much. In fact there is little mention at all of this unlike other high profile cases that have come up over the last few years.
    The few comments I can find are either neutral or against him as a person but not many of them at all.

    Commission to review Human Rights Act after terror case

    I'm glad these men are not being sent to Pakistan. They may be evil, but they are still human and still have their human rights, which the law must respect. And I'm glad that in this case, the law has respected them.
    If there is an injustice against a Muslim these forums are usually full of comment. The silence says a lot.

  21. #21
    Thailand Expat
    Bower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    17-06-2019 @ 06:40 PM
    Location
    South coast UK
    Posts
    3,016
    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    notice he defence was not that he had done nothing wrong but about the punishment he would get.
    I think you've misconstrued that as well. There's no 'defence' per se, because he was never even charged with anything.

    His grounds for fighting against the deportation order were based on the grounds that he'd be tortured -- a not unreasonable fear at that -- which is a seperate question.

    But do we lose sight of the fact these people are guests of a foreign country, and should that country decide to no longer host them, the host country must have the right to revoke a visa and any permission to remain.

  22. #22
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    33,475
    Quote Originally Posted by Bower
    But do we lose sight of the fact these people are guests of a foreign country, and should that country decide to no longer host them, the host country must have the right to revoke a visa and any permission to remain.
    That's true, although I don't know the facts of his situation (but presume he's on some visa or other).

    But that surely needs to be balanced against the likely effects of that action. if they were to deport him, and he were to be tortured and/or killed, then there's at the very least a moral culpability there that should be balanced against the rights of the host nation.

  23. #23
    Thailand Expat
    Bower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    17-06-2019 @ 06:40 PM
    Location
    South coast UK
    Posts
    3,016
    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bower
    But do we lose sight of the fact these people are guests of a foreign country, and should that country decide to no longer host them, the host country must have the right to revoke a visa and any permission to remain.
    That's true, although I don't know the facts of his situation (but presume he's on some visa or other).

    But that surely needs to be balanced against the likely effects of that action. if they were to deport him, and he were to be tortured and/or killed, then there's at the very least a moral culpability there that should be balanced against the rights of the host nation.
    If an alien arrives in any country on a tempoary visa and has not claimed refugee status prior to any arrest or conviction, why should there be any significant reason to belive he/she may be tortured or killed on their return?

    I am not an acedemic as you may have gussed from my spelling etc but it just seems to me to be fundamentaly wrong.

  24. #24
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    33,475
    Quote Originally Posted by Bower
    If an alien arrives in any country on a tempoary visa and has not claimed refugee status prior to any arrest or conviction, why should there be any significant reason to belive he/she may be tortured or killed on their return?
    Because in this specific case, although no charges were laid or convictions made, Naseer's been tarred 'n feathered as a "terrorist" and there's the very real and distinct possibility that the Pakistani security services/forces would take it upon themselves to 'elicit' information from him -- information he may not even have.

    It's a similar principle behind the US using third-party governments to conduct the very same torture of people (often those who had been subjected to extraordinary rendition) that they (the US) were supposedly on the moral high-ground against.

  25. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Online
    10-06-2013 @ 06:42 PM
    Posts
    275
    I find it peculiar that there seem to be some terrorist plot discovered every now and then in every country, yet nothing really happened in the last 10 years!!! except a few ( madrid, london) and 9-11 is still covered in mysteries....
    putting a bomb somewhere or blowing yourself up shouldn't be that hard.....or is it. Are these people retards that they can't manage and when they try they really suck at it. the stuff they are trying to make are mostly done so badly that they couldn't kill a rabbit lol
    You would expect a alledgedly global organisation like al qaeda to be able to do some damage...!!?? the damn thing seems to be bigger than macdonnalds, having branches every where with their managers ( leaders) being killed and arrested almost weekly. Yet nobody knows where they are, how they communicate and finance or keep order in the organisation? Despite all this so many plots are uncoverd ........

    I have no opinion about this matter itself though lol I know that many paki's are very traditional/ extremely religious. added the immigration and it's problems and consequences and the political situation of the world, there is bound to be some of these people ( muslims in general) who are crazy/ pissed off enough to become " aspirin" terrorist.
    It is a question of taste, americans seem to prefer shooting their coworkers and school mates when life doesn't work out for them. Muslims seem to prefer blowing themselves up lol

    Any way i hope this terrorist stuff doesn't get fashionable in europe, like it is in pakistan or many other places. that would suck lol
    But let's stop shitting our pants, the dangers of it is almost zero.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •