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  1. #1
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    UK - Boss would rather hire paedophiles than former soldiers

    Boss Karl Winn would rather hire paedophiles than former soldiers

    A BOSS caused outrage by saying he would rather employ a paedophile than former servicemen or women.

    Karl Winn, 60, said that "ex-drug dealers, convicts and child molesters" made better employees than war heroes, The Sun reported.

    Forces Recruitment Services - which help find jobs for former British military personnel - had emailed Winn inviting him to consider taking on ex-servicemen and women at the Webeurope design company he runs in Taunton, Somerset.

    Winn, a former social worker, replied: "Personally, I'd rather recruit ex-drug dealers, convicts and even child molesters rather than consider anybody who has been in the pay of the British Government.
    "Anybody who has been in the pay of such a military force, and by their silence and complicity has condoned such illegal and immoral actions while accepting a monthly blood-stained pay-packet, certainly will not be considered for employment by us!

    "Please remove us from your email list. Regards, Karl."

    Winn tried to deny he wrote the email when first challenged, blaming instead a "disgruntled" worker who had managed to hack into his personal email.

    But confronted by further emails between him and the recruitment agency he caved in and admitted he had written them - but refused to apologise.

    Winn, who employs 16 people, agreed that his views were "a bit over the top," but continued, "I don't regret saying it at all.

    "Even if it costs me money, I'll still stand up for what I believe in."

    Winn later issued a media statement to clarify his views.

    "Ex-pedophiles and drug addicts who have been charged and paid the price for their actions deserve a chance to get on with their lives. In my opinion, military personnel who have got away with murder do not," he said.

    "I will therefore continue with my blanket ban on employing ex-military personnel. I understand this will affect innocent as well as guilty people."


  2. #2
    Love Thailand Carnwadrick's Avatar
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    everybody reading that story should send an email to the company expressing disgust with his statement, then send copies of the story to everybody on your mailing list with instructions to pass it on...I just did

  3. #3
    better looking than Ned
    Rigger's Avatar
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    Wheres the e mail address ?
    Bloody good idea

  4. #4
    ding ding ding
    Spin's Avatar
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    Some press release from his website:

    "
    webeurope - press statement

    Extract from a Press Statement issued by Relatives for Justice on 13th March 2010
    "'Webeurope .. have heard at first hand the true extent of the role of the British army, the trauma, hurt and anguish caused - importantly they have acted to heal, support and address in their own way the awful legacy left behind as a direct consequence of British state violence in our country. 'For that we are greatly indebted to them and in particular Karl Winn whose commitment to non-violence means, human rights, social justice, compassion and humanity are an example to us all.'
    Background
    Karl Winn, Webeurope's founder and principle owner, has for many years supported numerous organisations (NGO's), such organisations include: -
    • The International Human Rights Network - Supporting others in applying Human Rights Based Approaches to UN Agencies, countries, and organisations.
    • Film Makers Against War - FAW seeks to educate and raise awareness of UK and international war law
    • Art and Sacred Places - Encourages the interaction of art and religion by commissioning artists to make work in sacred places.
    • Relatives for Justice – A northern Ireland based organisation that supports and campaigns on behalf of the families of the 367 men, women, and children, who have been killed by members of the British Military and Police services. The campaign seeks to bring the perpetrators of such killings before the courts.
    Overview
    Between 5th and 9th of March, there was a private and personal email exchange between Karl Winn and Graham Brown the Managing Director of Forces Recruitment Services Ltd. FRS specialises in the recruitment of ex-British Army personnel, as part of the “Hire-A-Hero” campaign.
    In those emails Karl Winn stated that his personal preference would be to offer employment even to ex-offenders, rather than British Military personnel because at least the former had been investigated, and bought before the courts, and held accountable for their actions. “The reality for the families of their victims is that there will never be any justice, and there never will be any closure, for the loss of a son, a husband, a child, or a family member who has fallen victim to British Military personnel who are going beyond "just doing their job".
    “The reality from the north of Ireland, to Afghanistan and Iraq, is that the perpetrators of such atrocities will always be free to get on with their lives, safe in the knowledge that the policy of the British Government is to ensure their protection from prosecution”.
    ... “we are not talking about people who do their duty. Nobody is going to condemn any service man or woman for that. What I'm referring to is the unwillingness of far too many service men and women to give evidence against those who commit criminal offences. .. I'm not talking about incidents that happen in the heat of battle against armed combatants, but actions, that by any standard, amount to murder, or other such crimes against a civilian population. However, I accept we'll never agree on this. Your allegiance is to the British Military - mine is on the side of its victims”.
    Forces Recruitment Services Ltd subsequently passed copies of those private emails to The Sun newspaper.
    PRESS RELEASE
    12th March 2010 - Statement by Mark Thompson Director of Relatives for Justice on British state violence in Ireland and of the support received by Webeurope in terms of addressing the awful legacy of hurt and pain.
    'Throughout the conflict in Ireland the British army and the RUC acted with impunity regarding its actions. In particular the provision of impunity surrounded virtually all of the 367 direct killings by the State – most of these perpetrated by the British army. These were predominantly, yet not exclusively, perpetrated against the nationalist/republican and Catholic community. The vast majority of those targeted and killed were uninvolved civilians – men, women and children.
    'Of those non-State combatants killed many were killed in preplanned premeditated circumstances in which safe and effective arrests were possible yet political and military decisions were taken to act outside of the rule of law and to kill people rather than to act and adhere to international and domestic legal requirements.
    'The overall criminal justice system tasked to examine all of these killings and hold to account those responsible was completely circumvented beyond recognition and comparability to criminal justice systems (a) functioning within the same jurisdiction such as England, Scotland and Wales or (b) of any other functioning democracy within the European Union.
    'The corruption of the rule of law included investigations by the Royal Military Police, the RUC, the role of the then DPP, and the inquests courts in which the objective was to provide the cosmetic appearance that ‘justice’ processes were at work whilst in reality these were routinely perfunctory and thus wholly ineffective from the point of view of those bereaved.
    'Added to this was the systemic policy of misinformation concerning events surrounding killings by the State and the practice of character assassination as the propaganda machine of the establishment sought to both justify killings and highlight the threats and dangers under which the British army and RUC operated.

    Many of those killed were labelled ‘gunmen and gunwomen’ and civilian witnesses were harassed, intimidated and threatened in a bid to deter them from providing evidence that was at odds with ‘official’ versions of what occurred. It was/is against these odds that families and communities began the arduous struggle to tell the truth, establish facts and seek justice. Bereaved relatives were oftentimes publicly vilified, harassed and threatened.
    'All of these actions were essential to the broader political and military policy objectives of the British Government in relation to the North of Ireland and cannot be seen in isolation. Rather these are the very nuts and bolts of the working policy of providing impunity to British soldiers, RUC officers and members of so-called ‘special forces’ deployed in the North of Ireland.
    'In documents discovered under the 30-year rule in London an insight into the political and military thinking of the early 1970’s clearly establishes the rationale of British military tactics in which senior military figures cite the ‘shock and stun’ effects that they seek to deploy as part of the policy around internment and Operation Motorman.
    'In addition to this the policy of collusion with illegal paramilitary groups was widespread with agents secreted into all the main groupings which was a central plank in the overall policy objective of collusion. In particular MI5's Force Research Unit (FRU) of the British army infiltrated, controlled and directed loyalist groupings to such an extent that they were able to selected scores of citizens for political assassinations and consequently facilitated loyalism to conduct a sectarian murder campaign that claimed hundreds of lives with an arsenal of weapons imported by MI5 from the old apartheid regime in South Africa.
    'These incidents have been globally documented and are a matter of fact. The British government were effectively sanctioning the murders of its own citizens in the North of Ireland during the conflict - citizens that they had both a moral and legal duty to protect. The British army were at the core of implementing this policy.
    'Relatives for Justice has had tremendous support from people in Britain over the years and that support came in many forms, from former serving members of the British army, British politicians, solidarity groups, and ordinary members of the British public.
    'Webeurope are an example of the type of practical support that has been both show and demonstrated in their charitable commitment to our organisation. They have heard at first hand the true extent of the role of the British army, the trauma, hurt and anguish caused - importantly they have acted to heal, support and address in their own way the awful legacy left behind as a direct consequence of British state violence in our country.
    'For that we are greatly indebted to them and in particular Karl Winn whose commitment to non-violence means, human rights, social justice, compassion and humanity are an example to us all."


    source


    The e-mail address is info at webeurope.co.uk
    Originally Posted by Smeg
    ... I like to fantasise sometimes, and I lie very occasionally... my superior home, job, wealth, freedom, car, girl, retirement age, appearance, satisfaction with birth country etc etc... Over the past few years I have put together over 100 pages on notes on thaiophilia...

  5. #5
    I am in Jail
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rigger
    Wheres the e mail address ?
    Bloody good idea
    are you also rooting for service men ? your gay sexual appetite knows no end,

  6. #6
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    The Ghost Of The Moog's Avatar
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    There is no reason why people who have criminal or deviant tendencies shouldn't make perfectly good employees as long as their job doesn't overlap with their proclivities.

    Thieves shouldn't work as security guards.
    Paedophiles shouldn't work as teachers.
    Satanists shouldn't work as priests.
    Fraudsters shouldn't work as bankers or politicians

    No reason why a paedophile shouldn't make a good security guard.

  7. #7
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    It's hard to put this politely, but anyone who was willing to die or risk injury in this silly so called war on terror, or fight Iraq in a war started by the Americans over oil and Saddam's selling it for Euros instead of Dollars cannot be the brightest light on the tree. You do not see the best and the brightest signing up for the military anymore. In this regard, he may have a point.

  8. #8
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    ^Thats true in the British army. The officers are usually well-educated, but the privates often have low reading ages - and join the army because there aren't many other employment opportunities for them in the modern service economy.

  9. #9
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    ^

    Not condoning, agreeing or denying but there is another angle to this .

    For instance

    Someone signs on for a period in the armed forces - their reason for doing it is their desire to protect their country.
    As a serviceman they are expected to obey orders.
    The fact that the prats of politicians decide that to protect their country the services have to travel halfway around the world and create mayhem in places and countries that present no threat to their country but to appease their 'allies' they are ordered to go !

    Seems to work though
    Not many reports of Taliban or Iraqi landing craft being intercepted in the English Channel


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyman View Post
    ^

    Someone signs on for a period in the armed forces - their reason for doing it is their desire to protect their country.
    For some that desire may be authentic, and its certainly is drilled into them after they enlist.

    But when they walk into the recruitment office, its often a job that they are looking for. They need to earn a living.

    Its not easy in the UK nowadays, not much manufacturing, you can't be a miner anymore. There's only so many credit default swap traders with mathematics PhDs.

  11. #11
    Love Thailand Carnwadrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobR
    You do not see the best and the brightest signing up for the military anymore. In this regard, he may have a point.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog
    Thats true in the British army. The officers are usually well-educated, but the privates often have low reading ages - and join the army because there aren't many other employment opportunities for them in the modern service economy.
    So fucking what!! a man or woman who joins an army and puts their life in jeapordy for a "job" should not be ridiculed. If anything is out of wack it's the politicians who have fucked things up (or in the case of Iraq it was that mad dictator Saddam Huisain) give the blokes in the forces a fuckin break, oh by the way you asshole critics when was the last time you did something to help out.

  12. #12
    Pronce. PH said so AGAIN!
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    If the guy owns a business then who he does or does not hire is up to him.

  13. #13
    Love Thailand Carnwadrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackula
    If the guy owns a business then who he does or does not hire is up to him.
    Oh shut up!

  14. #14
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    The Ghost Of The Moog's Avatar
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    When they go into the army, they're raw, unfinished and best fit only for the military. They're seldom University material.

    But it does seem to bring out the best in them though. After their service i'd say they were skilled, mature, and eminently employable.

    They still have to find something that suits their skillsets. I wouldn't think many would be all that interested in a web design company in any case.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog View Post
    But it does seem to bring out the best in them though. After their service i'd say they were skilled, mature, and eminently employable.
    Depends which branch of the armed forces they entered, what use is a rifle-man in civy street? Some of the hardest to place in other employment are ex-regulars and not infrequently well less than mature, I worked with enough.

  16. #16
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    I met an ex-soldier on monday who has a recruitment business for Gurkhas in Hong Kong. His business has been wrecked because Gurkhas can now go and live in the UK, so of course they do precisely that. He says they get jobs as security guards and drivers.

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnwadrick
    So fucking what!! a man or woman who joins an army and puts their life in jeapordy for a "job" should not be ridiculed.
    Don't quite see how it equates to them being ridiculed. This guy, the business owner, is perfectly entitled to his opinions.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    This guy,... is perfectly entitled to his opinions.
    But is he?

    Are people entitled to their opinions? A study was done which suggested people aren't when they weren't equipped with enough evidence to form a sensible one.

    So I could have an view that the earth is flat, but its not a matter for my opinion given the evidence to the contrary.

    So for me to say "I'm entitled to my opinion that its flat," is invalid.


    "In my opinion Man Utd is the best football team"......yes ok, you're entitled to that opinion.
    "In my opinion Torquay Utd is the best football team"....sorry, you're not entitled to that one.

    .
    Last edited by The Ghost Of The Moog; 18-03-2010 at 02:40 PM.

  19. #19
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    Soldiers follow orders. That is their job.

    The guy is entitled to his opinion, and to who he employs if it is his own company. By saying
    ex-drug dealers, convicts and child molesters" made better employees than war heroes
    , he is also entitled to the ridicule and scorn that his comments deserve. Hope he is enjoying all the attention he obviously craves.

  20. #20
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog
    Are people entitled to their opinions? A study was done which suggested people aren't when they weren't equipped with enough evidence to form a sensible one
    On the balance of probabilities and the evidence of it so far (e.g. the cut 'n paste that Spin posted) it certainly seems to be something that he is informed and consistent about.

  21. #21
    RIP
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnwadrick
    everybody reading that story should send an email to the company expressing disgust with his statement, then send copies of the story to everybody on your mailing list with instructions to pass it on...I just did
    rubbish...

    Quote Originally Posted by slackula
    If the guy owns a business then who he does or does not hire is up to him.
    Seconded...

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnwadrick
    Oh shut up!
    please do...

  22. #22
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    There are some serial wankers on here... just read some of your posts. Employing a paedophile? just shoot him.

    To many do-gooders on here for my liking..

  23. #23
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehighlander959
    Employing a paedophile?
    It's not about literally employing a pedophile, the guy was simply using that to emphasize his point. Likely as not he doesn't anyone on staff with any sort of major conviction.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog View Post
    I met an ex-soldier on monday who has a recruitment business for Gurkhas in Hong Kong. His business has been wrecked because Gurkhas can now go and live in the UK, so of course they do precisely that. He says they get jobs as security guards and drivers.
    Well yes, but jobs as security guards and drivers don't often require people of much calibre (not surprising when you consider the wages on offer).

  25. #25
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    This guy Karl Winn is entitled to his opinion if he is basing it on reason or experience.

    Is a paedophile better at web design than a squaddie?

    If he's just shooting off his mouth, then its no more than a guess, or an attempt to antagonise.

    But having said that, this was a private view he expressed. It wasn't published by him and it was the recipients who leaked it to the papers. In our free world he is entitled to think in this manner, distasteful as it is.

    I notice in business the favourite word today is 'inappropriate' - its the new PC word, and its used by every defensive manager to get toes on the line.

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