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  1. #1
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    China condemns US call for unrestricted internet

    China condemns US call for unrestricted internet


    Google says it will stay in China if censorship is relaxed

    China has denounced US criticisms of its internet controls, saying it could harm ties between the two countries.

    US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called on Thursday for China to lift restrictions on the internet.

    Mrs Clinton also urged Beijing to investigate Google's complaints that cyber-attacks had originated in China.

    Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu said the US should "respect the facts" and stop making "groundless accusations against China".

    The US has criticised China's policies to administer the internet, and insinuated that China restricts internet freedom," he said in a statement posted on the foreign ministry website.

    "This runs contrary to the facts and is harmful to China-US relations."

    An article in the Communist Party's Global Times English language news website called Mrs Clinton's criticisms "information imperialism".


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    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    I find it odd considering the US have plans to restrict and severely monitor the net itself; in terms of freedom of speech.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones
    US have plans to restrict and severely monitor the net itself
    Interesting. You have some detail on this JJ.

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    Maybe not restrict but boy oh boy do they monitor what everyone looks at...just don't type in how to make a bomb etc and you should be fine!!!

    God forbid that the Chinese people are able to find out the truth about things that have happened in China's recent past. Or naything else that the PRC deem to risque.

    Viva le revolution.
    Last edited by Mr R Sole; 22-01-2010 at 05:09 PM.
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    So when is Google going to stop censoring YouTube in Thailand? Can anybody recall offhand which of the many other countries that censor the net have been criticised by Hillary recently

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    I'm sure Google censors You Tube in Thailand as every other country censors what they can. You can't say anything bad about the royal family here so I'm certain many of us censor ourselves and if we did not TeakDoor would have to or they could be liable. I don't believe for a moment that every piece of news I get back in American is the only story. I choose to get information from as many sources as I can because when you listen to a story you're only getting one perspective. Better to get as many as possible to find something closer to the truth. Google is used all over the world and it is up to the country where the user lives to censor what can be seen.

    During the Bush administration not showing the coffins of soldiers being unloaded from our American wars was censorship. I can't remember hearing Hillary talking about that.

    I believe the problem Google had was the fact that email accounts of activists both inside and outside of China were being hacked by the government, wasn't it?
    Last edited by mordred; 22-01-2010 at 07:43 PM.
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    China has denounced US criticisms of its internet controls, saying it could harm ties between the two countries.


    "harm ties....."

    Jeepers.

    What a laugh. The Chinese are afraid of information, like the VNese.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mordred
    I believe the problem Google had was the fact that email accounts of activists both inside and outside of China were being hacked by the government, wasn't it?
    Yep. That's what got the whole issue started. As with many things, geo politics spawns new issues.

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    fuck the Chinese,

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    China will do what they want, period.

    The chinese will evolve over time to become a free nation of people, the seeds are in place.

    Why do the US want to tell another country how to act. The chinese must look at the US and think to themselves, we do not want to be billions in debt,have a social structure that does not work and is always striving for change and reform.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milkman
    What a laugh. The Chinese are afraid of information, like the VNese.
    And the Americans, only recently been allowed to show the merikan dead heroes from Iraq coming back in their coffins, don't think America, nor Australia come to that can criticise anybody about internet censorship.

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    Member mordred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    fuck the Chinese,

    Hell yea! Nothing good ever came out of China - except Bruce Lee(he is the man)...and fortune cookies...and Confucius...and Chinese girls... and this:

    Chinese sex secrets

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    So when is Google going to stop censoring YouTube in Thailand? Can anybody recall offhand which of the many other countries that censor the net have been criticised by Hillary recently
    Censorship domestically? Try comparing Google with Google Thai......

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    ^^ sounds like a nasty Chinese porn link

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    fuck the Chinese,
    Can you be more specific?? How old, good looking etc.

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    What sensorship...

    My arse, "freedom of speech", try to speak anywhere in the western world about the holocaust or Zionist Jews and watch what happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patangko View Post
    My arse, "freedom of speech", try to speak anywhere in the western world about the holocaust or Zionist Jews and watch what happens.
    Just goes to show ya......the Chinese and Jews run the show!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b
    So when is Google going to stop censoring YouTube in Thailand?
    They don't do a very good job mate. You can check out the massacre's at Thammasart Uni, the 1992 games!! and the Tak Bai massacre...it's just the Thai's that don't seem to know about their bloody history!!!?????

    I asked my students the other month, as they are off to Thammasat Uni' if they knew what happened there in 1976??? Errrrr WHAT????

    Not taught about it in the history books...hey it's gotta be sanook...and anything else just too seeeerr-li-usssss.....

    Apathetic Thaialnd...gotta love that shit???!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr R Sole View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b
    So when is Google going to stop censoring YouTube in Thailand?
    They don't do a very good job mate. You can check out the massacre's at Thammasart Uni, the 1992 games!! and the Tak Bai massacre...it's just the Thai's that don't seem to know about their bloody history!!!?????

    I asked my students the other month, as they are off to Thammasat Uni' if they knew what happened there in 1976??? Errrrr WHAT????

    Not taught about it in the history books...
    Censorship and revision within the standard texts goes without saying, but such nasties of contemporary are even less referenced throughout media circles.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr R Sole View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b
    So when is Google going to stop censoring YouTube in Thailand?
    They don't do a very good job mate. You can check out the massacre's at Thammasart Uni, the 1992 games!! and the Tak Bai massacre...it's just the Thai's that don't seem to know about their bloody history!!!?????

    YTF should they censor those things? Do you think they're ashamed of them? The people who did the killing at Thammasat got medals and promotions, they were and are treated as heroes. They still march around commemorating it. Those events served and still serve a purpose, they're warnings about what happens if you step out of line, there's a lot more behind it too but at that point we head into censorship.

    Censorship in Thailand's got bugger all to do with massacres like those, the people who committed them and organised them are not ashamed of them, they're proud of them. They're officially patriots who protected the country from traitors, terrorists, and communists, some of them are still in power now. Of course it's not actively publicised any more and the done thing is to tut-tut when it's brought up but it's a very powerful reminder to people to behave themselves. Sad but true.

    BTW, if you think the people who suffered at those times have forgotten why don't you go to a redshirt rally? You'll find they're not forgotten, many people see then and now as being all part of the same struggle. Some of the media and certain high-ups have even been calling for the village scouts to deal with these uppity reds they way they dealt with the sudents in the past. There have even been calls for Navapol to return to the fray, if they ever really left it. Thais do know most of their history very well, although they have different interpretations of it. Some of it, of course, is a closed and banned book, but not this part.

    The only censored parts of 73 and 76 have been so succesfully excised from the consciousness of most Thais and go so against what most farangs here believe to be the truth of Thai society that hardly anybody would believe it anyway.
    Last edited by DrB0b; 23-01-2010 at 11:50 PM.
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    ^ Nice post....Are you a Buddha??? I'm starting to think that you are.

    Seems it maybe going that way my friend....sadly...Karma????

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr R Sole View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b
    So when is Google going to stop censoring YouTube in Thailand?
    They don't do a very good job mate. You can check out the massacre's at Thammasart Uni, the 1992 games!! and the Tak Bai massacre...it's just the Thai's that don't seem to know about their bloody history!!!?????

    YTF should they censor those things? Do you think they're ashamed of them? The people who did the killing at Thammasat got medals and promotions, they were and are treated as heroes. They still march around commemorating it. Those events served and still serve a purpose, they're warnings about what happens if you step out of line, there's a lot more behind it too but at that point we head into censorship.

    Censorship in Thailand's got bugger all to do with massacres like those, the people who committed them and organised them are not ashamed of them, they're proud of them. They're officially patriots who protected the country from traitors, terrorists, and communists, some of them are still in power now. Of course it's not actively publicised any more and the done thing is to tut-tut when it's brought up but it's a very powerful reminder to people to behave themselves. Sad but true.

    BTW, if you think the people who suffered at those times have forgotten why don't you go to a redshirt rally? You'll find they're not forgotten, many people see then and now as being all part of the same struggle. Some of the media and certain high-ups have even been calling for the village scouts to deal with these uppity reds they way they dealt with the sudents in the past. There have even been calls for Navapol to return to the fray, if they ever really left it. Thais do know most of their history very well, although they have different interpretations of it. Some of it, of course, is a closed and banned book, but not this part.

    The only censored parts of 73 and 76 have been so succesfully excised from the consciousness of most Thais and go so against what most farangs here believe to be the truth of Thai society that hardly anybody would believe it anyway.
    "They still march around commemorating it." Where and when? If the news get a whiff of this it will be an enormous scandal. The victims families yes but the perpetrators are keeping a low profile.
    ‎" Beat Me With The Truth, Don't Torture Me With Lies! "

  23. #23
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    ^Huh? The military quelled an uprising and a few students died as a result, Thats the way most thai's see it, they had to stop those bstard commies.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patangko View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr R Sole View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b
    So when is Google going to stop censoring YouTube in Thailand?
    They don't do a very good job mate. You can check out the massacre's at Thammasart Uni, the 1992 games!! and the Tak Bai massacre...it's just the Thai's that don't seem to know about their bloody history!!!?????

    YTF should they censor those things? Do you think they're ashamed of them? The people who did the killing at Thammasat got medals and promotions, they were and are treated as heroes. They still march around commemorating it. Those events served and still serve a purpose, they're warnings about what happens if you step out of line, there's a lot more behind it too but at that point we head into censorship.

    Censorship in Thailand's got bugger all to do with massacres like those, the people who committed them and organised them are not ashamed of them, they're proud of them. They're officially patriots who protected the country from traitors, terrorists, and communists, some of them are still in power now. Of course it's not actively publicised any more and the done thing is to tut-tut when it's brought up but it's a very powerful reminder to people to behave themselves. Sad but true.

    BTW, if you think the people who suffered at those times have forgotten why don't you go to a redshirt rally? You'll find they're not forgotten, many people see then and now as being all part of the same struggle. Some of the media and certain high-ups have even been calling for the village scouts to deal with these uppity reds they way they dealt with the sudents in the past. There have even been calls for Navapol to return to the fray, if they ever really left it. Thais do know most of their history very well, although they have different interpretations of it. Some of it, of course, is a closed and banned book, but not this part.

    The only censored parts of 73 and 76 have been so succesfully excised from the consciousness of most Thais and go so against what most farangs here believe to be the truth of Thai society that hardly anybody would believe it anyway.
    "They still march around commemorating it." Where and when? If the news get a whiff of this it will be an enormous scandal. The victims families yes but the perpetrators are keeping a low profile.
    The perpetrators do NOT keep a low profile. One of them was PM just a couple of years ago, others are still in power both in politics and in the Sangha. There would not be an enormous scandal at all, the perpetrators of the Thammasat massacre are untouchable. Why do you think they were lauded in speeches, invited to particularly sacred temples shortly after, and given medals? Why do you think they were called upon once again to protect the country in a speech not so long ago? Do you know who came up with the idea for the Village Scouts and who their patrons are? Have you any idea of the BPP's original function?

    Do you know who Navapol were, and what that name means, do you know where they are now? And the Krating Daeng?

    If you know the answers to all those questions youll know exactly why there wouldn't be a scandal and understand exactly why so many of the families keep quiet. Not all of them do keep quiet, by the way, I've met several who are still campaigning for justice despite the intimidation they're still subject to.




    Below from 2Bangkok.com - Village Scouts gathering



    Village Scouts being led in shouts of "Chai Yo" as they pass Thammasat University.

    Village Scouts gathering at Sanam Luang - 4:15pm, November 28, 2004

    The Village Scouts are a patriotic group that was organized by the border patrol police to foster nationalism during the era of the Communist insurgency. On Sunday afternoon at Sanam Luang, the largest gathering of Village Scouts took place since 1976 when the scouts assisted in a crackdown on protesters at Thammasat University. These days, however, most of the Scouts appear to be elderly men and women.

    After spending time folding paper cranes to be dropped over provinces in the South, the scouts, grouped by province, marched around Sanam Luang, shouting "Chai Yo" as they passed Thammasat University. Then they returned to the park to hear patriotic speeches.

    Update: There does not appear to be an article on this in Monday's Bangkok Post (they have a very early press deadline), but they did run a photo on the front page. The Nation's article on the gathering includes a history of the Scout movement:
    Scout leader vows to banish separatists - The Nation, November 29, 2004
    The 20,000 Village Scouts who rallied yesterday at Sanam Luang from throughout the Kingdom, brandishing national flags and belting out a Cold War-era patriotic song, were treated to a promise by one of their leaders that their "separatist" enemies in the South would soon be driven out of the country.
    "They must be driven off Thai soil within 1,000 days!" intoned a clearly emotional octogenarian Pol Maj General Charoenrerk Charas-romrun, chairman of the advisory board of Thailand's largest rightwing mass organisation. "We shall fight to the death!"...
    In 1976 alone, about two million Thais became village scouts, before the movement fizzled out in 1981, only to re-emerge yesterday to protect the country from the threat of southern separatism...

    Update: Thai-language papers had nothing to say about the Village Scouts being called up again on Sunday. Neither Thairath, Matichon or Thaipost (or the English-language Bangkok Post) had editorials or comments on it. This is likely due to the sensitive issues of nationalism that the Scouts embody and perhaps sympathy with the Scouts' latest mission--to somehow bring peace in the South. Only the English-language Nation featured a history and perspective of the Scout movement.

    Earlier: VILLAGE SCOUTS MEETING: Rally for peace raises concern - The Nation, November 22, 2004
    Despite good intentions, scouts’ planned assembly sparks fears of a nationalist revival. Tens of thousands of village scouts are expected to converge on Bangkok’s Sanam Luang on Sunday to promote peace efforts in the deep South, said the public relations chief for the Village Scout Operation Centre...
    It will be the biggest political gathering of the group since they were deployed in 1976 to help suppress pro-democracy students...







    2Bangkok.com - Village Scouts gathering

    JSTOR: The Village Scouts of Thailand, by Marjorie A. Muecke 1980
    Last edited by DrB0b; 27-01-2010 at 11:06 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Patangko View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr R Sole View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b
    So when is Google going to stop censoring YouTube in Thailand?
    They don't do a very good job mate. You can check out the massacre's at Thammasart Uni, the 1992 games!! and the Tak Bai massacre...it's just the Thai's that don't seem to know about their bloody history!!!?????

    YTF should they censor those things? Do you think they're ashamed of them? The people who did the killing at Thammasat got medals and promotions, they were and are treated as heroes. They still march around commemorating it. Those events served and still serve a purpose, they're warnings about what happens if you step out of line, there's a lot more behind it too but at that point we head into censorship.

    Censorship in Thailand's got bugger all to do with massacres like those, the people who committed them and organised them are not ashamed of them, they're proud of them. They're officially patriots who protected the country from traitors, terrorists, and communists, some of them are still in power now. Of course it's not actively publicised any more and the done thing is to tut-tut when it's brought up but it's a very powerful reminder to people to behave themselves. Sad but true.

    BTW, if you think the people who suffered at those times have forgotten why don't you go to a redshirt rally? You'll find they're not forgotten, many people see then and now as being all part of the same struggle. Some of the media and certain high-ups have even been calling for the village scouts to deal with these uppity reds they way they dealt with the sudents in the past. There have even been calls for Navapol to return to the fray, if they ever really left it. Thais do know most of their history very well, although they have different interpretations of it. Some of it, of course, is a closed and banned book, but not this part.

    The only censored parts of 73 and 76 have been so succesfully excised from the consciousness of most Thais and go so against what most farangs here believe to be the truth of Thai society that hardly anybody would believe it anyway.
    "They still march around commemorating it." Where and when? If the news get a whiff of this it will be an enormous scandal. The victims families yes but the perpetrators are keeping a low profile.
    The perpetrators do NOT keep a low profile. One of them was PM just a couple of years ago, others are still in power both in politics and in the Sangha. There would not be an enormous scandal at all, the perpetrators of the Thammasat massacre are untouchable. Why do you think they were lauded in speeches, invited to particularly sacred temples shortly after, and given medals? Why do you think they were called upon once again to protect the country in a speech not so long ago? Do you know who came up with the idea for the Village Scouts and who their patrons are? Have you any idea of the BPP's original function?

    Do you know who Navapol were, and what that name means, do you know where they are now? And the Krating Daeng?

    If you know the answers to all those questions youll know exactly why there wouldn't be a scandal and understand exactly why so many of the families keep quiet. Not all of them do keep quiet, by the way, I've met several who are still campaigning for justice despite the intimidation they're still subject to.




    Below from 2Bangkok.com - Village Scouts gathering



    Village Scouts being led in shouts of "Chai Yo" as they pass Thammasat University.

    Village Scouts gathering at Sanam Luang - 4:15pm, November 28, 2004

    The Village Scouts are a patriotic group that was organized by the border patrol police to foster nationalism during the era of the Communist insurgency. On Sunday afternoon at Sanam Luang, the largest gathering of Village Scouts took place since 1976 when the scouts assisted in a crackdown on protesters at Thammasat University. These days, however, most of the Scouts appear to be elderly men and women.

    After spending time folding paper cranes to be dropped over provinces in the South, the scouts, grouped by province, marched around Sanam Luang, shouting "Chai Yo" as they passed Thammasat University. Then they returned to the park to hear patriotic speeches.

    Update: There does not appear to be an article on this in Monday's Bangkok Post (they have a very early press deadline), but they did run a photo on the front page. The Nation's article on the gathering includes a history of the Scout movement:
    Scout leader vows to banish separatists - The Nation, November 29, 2004
    The 20,000 Village Scouts who rallied yesterday at Sanam Luang from throughout the Kingdom, brandishing national flags and belting out a Cold War-era patriotic song, were treated to a promise by one of their leaders that their "separatist" enemies in the South would soon be driven out of the country.
    "They must be driven off Thai soil within 1,000 days!" intoned a clearly emotional octogenarian Pol Maj General Charoenrerk Charas-romrun, chairman of the advisory board of Thailand's largest rightwing mass organisation. "We shall fight to the death!"...
    In 1976 alone, about two million Thais became village scouts, before the movement fizzled out in 1981, only to re-emerge yesterday to protect the country from the threat of southern separatism...

    Update: Thai-language papers had nothing to say about the Village Scouts being called up again on Sunday. Neither Thairath, Matichon or Thaipost (or the English-language Bangkok Post) had editorials or comments on it. This is likely due to the sensitive issues of nationalism that the Scouts embody and perhaps sympathy with the Scouts' latest mission--to somehow bring peace in the South. Only the English-language Nation featured a history and perspective of the Scout movement.

    Earlier: VILLAGE SCOUTS MEETING: Rally for peace raises concern - The Nation, November 22, 2004
    Despite good intentions, scouts’ planned assembly sparks fears of a nationalist revival. Tens of thousands of village scouts are expected to converge on Bangkok’s Sanam Luang on Sunday to promote peace efforts in the deep South, said the public relations chief for the Village Scout Operation Centre...
    It will be the biggest political gathering of the group since they were deployed in 1976 to help suppress pro-democracy students...







    2Bangkok.com - Village Scouts gathering

    JSTOR: The Village Scouts of Thailand, by Marjorie A. Muecke 1980
    Wow, found it, OK, Dr.Bob first of all sincere appreciation for the time and effort spent to remind me of this "group". Yes, they are a remnant of the Thammasat time but they laid low for a long time. They are mostly oldies and have no more teeth I feel, they will try though. I bookmarked the 2Bangkok.com site but have to read more in order to evaluate its value to me. Anyway, thanks, unlike some around here you wend up in my opinion for what that's worth anyway.......

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