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  1. #1
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    French burka ban looms

    Gavin Hewitt | 13:11 UK time, Thursday, 21 January 2010
    BBC - Gavin Hewitt's Europe: French burka ban looms





    For several months a parliamentary commission in France has been investigating whether the burka or the niqab (the full veil) should be banned. They are due to report next Tuesday, 26 January. It is now clear that they will say that the burka "should be prohibited on the territory of the Republic".
    In an interview with today's Le Figaro, the president of the commission, Andre Gerin, said that "the ban on the burka will be absolute" in public places.


    Now this will have the force of an opinion, but it will be the first step towards putting a law in place. A great many deputies in the parliament clearly want this to be followed by a law. Nothing will happen quickly and certainly not before the French regional elections in March. There will also be an intense debate as to what the legislation should include and how to avoid it clashing with human rights laws.


    I spoke with Jean-Francois Cope, the head of the parliamentary group for the UMP (the governing party) and he said that this was mostly about women's rights. "We think in our country", he told me, "that the face is a way of recognising and respecting each other". The veil, he went on, isn't the point. It is the covering of the face that we object to.


    Now Mr Cope has already talked of fining those who break the law. Others like Xavier Bertrand have gone further in suggesting niqab wearers should not acquire French nationality. In his view the full veil is "simply a prison for women who wear it".


    The deputies, who support the ban, say that many Muslims confirm that nothing in Islam requires women to wear the full veil. Only about 1900 women in France wear it.

    It is difficult to isolate where this push for banning the burka comes from. Mr Cope said it had the support of 74% of French people. What people say is that as Muslims have become more visible across Europe, there is a concern that they are pushing a separate identity that would lead to parallel, not integrated, communities.


    One academic I spoke to said that liberals had not expected, in backing multiculturalism, that newcomers would arrive and live apart from the society they had joined. President Sarkozy has spoken of "this feeling of sharing less and less a common culture, a common imagination and a common morality". In his view, becoming French means "adhering to a form of civilisation, values and behaviour".

    Tomorrow I will write on the view from behind the niqab and how women who wear it may react to legislation if it comes.

  2. #2
    Mid
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    fair enough , it ain't native to France

    ^

    that orta get a few wondering about hypocrisy

  3. #3
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    they shout do the same in denmark

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    I can't agree with this. Look, if some freak show punk wants to walk around with hairpins thru' his or her face or whatever they are free to do so. I don't think it is legit to 'ban the Burkha' as such.

    What is legit is to regulate the circumstances and places in which it can and can't be worn. Driving, schoolteaching, nursing, passport & ID photoes, places with a 'national security' importance such as airports- forget about it. But if someone wants to join the Freak circus and wander round the streets in one of these things, they have a right to do so.
    probes Aliens

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    Hey Sabang, I think that the hairpins should be ripped out of any punk's face that's wearing them and he should be publicly humiliated in the town square for such behavior. Maybe called worthless and weak and what not.

    Would stocks be too harsh?

    How about just ban the Mussies all together?

    Problem solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    I don't think it is legit to 'ban the Burkha' as such.
    Even the headscarf is banned in Turkey. The reasoning is that only a ban can give protection to those women who do not want to wear it. If it is allowed, many women will be forced by their family.
    I think the same reasoning would be valid in Europe.

    The argument it is not our culture would not be valid imo. Tolerance is a valid counter argument to that.

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    Tolerance is a valid counter argument to that.
    indeed , and immigrants should be prepared to be tolerant of their new host country

  8. #8
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    The free West.

    So considerate. So superior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    What is legit is to regulate the circumstances and places in which it can and can't be worn.
    Basically what they are doing Sabang,, Not IN France,, seems plain enough to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Mao
    The free West. So considerate. So superior.
    Well they must think so, or why would they want to go there,, no one is forcing them to live there. let em come live with you.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    But if someone wants to join the Freak circus and wander round the streets in one of these things, they have a right to do so.
    They're forced to wear it most of the time....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Mao View Post
    The free* West.

    So considerate. So superior.
    Compared to..?







    *subject to status and availability.

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    ALL FRENCH women should wear them!

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    I can imagine muslim tourist women going on holiday to Paris and being arrested for wearing their national burkha, hmmmm, naaa, aint gonna happen, be funny if they brought the idea up in England, I think most of the public outcry would be from white middle class women who have never been to a Muslim dominated country in their life.

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    There should pass a law against French armpit hair while they're at it.

    Cheers

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    Amazing that a so called Democracy would even consider a law which interferes with personal liberties to the degree this one would. Granted that any woman who wears one of those things is stupid, but there is an absolute right to be stupid.

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    Banning the burka in a Democratic society. Fascists. Can they walk into a bank wearing the burka or would they be shot? Maybe stores should just not allow people through the door that are not showing their faces for security reasons. If they come in call the police or security to have them removed.

    I heard a woman on Al Jazeera today saying she didnt want any man other than her husband to be attracted to her. Man, he has her trained.
    "he who thinks he knows, does not know; he who thinks he does not know, knows." Lao Tzu

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    They tend to ban Crash helmets, sunglasses and the like in banks and shops in various countries. Banning the full face veil seems reasonable in sensitive areas.

    and if they're really ugly....................

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobR
    Granted that any woman who wears one of those things is stupid, but there is an absolute right to be stupid.
    See my post above. She may be forced by her family to wear it. The only way to protect her ist a ban.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Even the headscarf is banned in Turkey. The reasoning is that only a ban can give protection to those women who do not want to wear it. If it is allowed, many women will be forced by their family.
    As I remember, Ataturk banned muslim type dress as one of his ways to help bring Turkey into the modern world.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon
    As I remember, Ataturk banned muslim type dress as one of his ways to help bring Turkey into the modern world.
    It may just work for France as well then. Bringing their toilets into the mid 19th Century would be a good start.

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    A ban is being discussed in the UK too. Anywhere you cannot enter with a crash helmet, balaclava, face scarf etc. One of the London bombers escaped dressed in a Burka. Its seems fair enough to me.

    You can wear a huge dagger in the Yemen but not on the Fulham High Road.

    You can carry a concealed handgun in Texas but not along the Kings Road.

    You can leave a bible in any hotel room for the needy in the Western world but it would get you a lengthy prison sentance in Saudi Arabia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bower
    Anywhere you cannot enter with a crash helmet, balaclava, face scarf etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bower
    Its seems fair enough to me.
    Me too.

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    I think we should treat Muslims with understand and tolerance that the Saudis show westerners.

    Cheers

  24. #24
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    oh no somebody will be along in a mo complaining about posters always bringing up the extreme Saudi madmen, and what about all the nice fluffy moderate Muslims then blah blah.
    DD brought up a good point, how would they deal with Islamic tarts on holiday in France wearing the full bag disguise? Probably will be watered down to a ban in sensitive areas, it is a dreadful security risk not seeing faces and one Islamic bomber has already escaped from the UK dressed as a bag wearing women. If not banned this burka wearing, which is really more about pissing off the native community than having anything to do with religion, should at least be severely curtained and not allowed at airports, banks, transport stations, on the underground or when claiming benefits where people need to see who you are.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiLeakHunt View Post
    I think we should treat Muslims with understand and tolerance that the Saudis show westerners.
    You mean like this???


    Islamization Watch: Filipino migrant in Saudi Arabia: exploited and mocked for her faith



    A Filipino domestic worker describes as "a prison" her experience in Saudi Arabia. For seven months she was not allowed to leave or have a bed to sleep on. Because of her Christian faith her salary was reduced. Forced to fast during Ramadan.


    Manila (AsiaNews) - "My Life in Saudi Arabia was like a prison and the anguish of those moments was unbearable." This is the story of Norma Caldera, a Filipina domestic worker who emigrated to work in Saudi Arabia and escaped after seven months of constant harassment due to her Catholic faith. "Every day I got up early to pray – she tells - and every time my colleagues and employers saw me they began to insult and mock me for my Christian faith."

    Like 10 million other Filipinos, Norma was forced to leave her country to seek work abroad. For 17 years she worked in Hong Kong, but the crisis has forced her again to leave to go to Saudi Arabia to work as a maid in a family. The Arabian country employs around 200 thousand Filipinos. These as well as being exploited and poorly paid, are subject to verbal and physical violence because of their Christian faith. The last case concerns a girl, Sylviane Hugilon Baser, who died in mysterious circumstances. So far, Saudi authorities have refused to provide explanations about her death and to return the body to the family which has been lying in a morgue for months.

    "When I told my employers that I was Catholic and wanted to die a Catholic, the first thing they did was lower my salary from $ 1,000 to 700," says Norma. "During Ramadan – she continues – they forced me to fast with them. For me it was difficult to work with the same pace without being able to eat. But unfortunately I had no choice. " The woman adds that in the seven months of work she was not allowed to leave, even to go to Mass on Sunday. She also did not have her own room or a bed to sleep. The only place to rest was the kitchen floor or a tent pitched in the backyard.

    "I lived this occasion, praying and having faith in God - she continues - I was willing to make this sacrifice to be able to pay for my two daughters education."

    On 29 December, the woman returned to the Philippines, five months before the expiry of the contract. Norma says that he will try to find work at home or in another non-Islamic country.
    There are more tolerant muslims in other areas of the world than SA, but much as muslims are readily identifiable in Xtian countries, the same holds true from Xtians in muslim countries... The difference is the manner in which the host treats members of the other faith...

    A relevant example related to the above article, I would be very hesitant to visit the island of Zamboanga in the south Philippines islands, where the southern provinces of the island are predominantly muslim... Xtians have a nasty habit of losing their heads (literally) in that part of the PI...
    Last edited by Muadib; 24-01-2010 at 12:55 AM.
    Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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