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  1. #1
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    World misled by United Nations Himalayan glacier meltdown

    From The Sunday Times

    January 17, 2010
    World misled over Himalayan glacier meltdown


    A WARNING that climate change will melt most of the Himalayan glaciers by 2035 is likely to be retracted after a series of scientific blunders by the United Nations body that issued it.

    Two years ago the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) issued a benchmark report that was claimed to incorporate the latest and most detailed research into the impact of global warming. A central claim was the world's glaciers were melting so fast that those in the Himalayas could vanish by 2035.

    In the past few days the scientists behind the warning have admitted that it was based on a news story in the New Scientist, a popular science journal, published eight years before the IPCC's 2007 report.

    It has also emerged that the New Scientist report was itself based on a short telephone interview with Syed Hasnain, a little-known Indian scientist then based at Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi.

    Hasnain has since admitted that the claim was "speculation" and was not supported by any formal research. If confirmed it would be one of the most serious failures yet seen in climate research. The IPCC was set up precisely to ensure that world leaders had the best possible scientific advice on climate change.

    Professor Murari Lal, who oversaw the chapter on glaciers in the IPCC report, said he would recommend that the claim about glaciers be dropped: "If Hasnain says officially that he never asserted this, or that it is a wrong presumption, than I will recommend that the assertion about Himalayan glaciers be removed from future IPCC assessments."

    The IPCC's reliance on Hasnain's 1999 interview has been highlighted by Fred Pearce, the journalist who carried out the original interview for the New Scientist. Pearce said he rang Hasnain in India in 1999 after spotting his claims in an Indian magazine. Pearce said: "Hasnain told me then that he was bringing a report containing those numbers to Britain. The report had not been peer reviewed or formally published in a scientific journal and it had no formal status so I reported his work on that basis.

    "Since then I have obtained a copy and it does not say what Hasnain said. In other words it does not mention 2035 as a date by which any Himalayan glaciers will melt. However, he did make clear that his comments related only to part of the Himalayan glaciers. not the whole massif."

    The New Scientist report was apparently forgotten until 2005 when WWF cited it in a report called An Overview of Glaciers, Glacier Retreat, and Subsequent Impacts in Nepal, India and China. The report credited Hasnain's 1999 interview with the New Scientist. But it was a campaigning report rather than an academic paper so it was not subjected to any formal scientific review. Despite this it rapidly became a key source for the IPCC when Lal and his colleagues came to write the section on the Himalayas.

    When finally published, the IPCC report did give its source as the WWF study but went further, suggesting the likelihood of the glaciers melting was "very high". The IPCC defines this as having a probability of greater than 90%.
    The report read: "Glaciers in the Himalaya are receding faster than in any other part of the world and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps warming at the current rate."

    However, glaciologists find such figures inherently ludicrous, pointing out that most Himalayan glaciers are hundreds of feet thick and could not melt fast enough to vanish by 2035 unless there was a huge global temperature rise. The maximum rate of decline in thickness seen in glaciers at the moment is 2-3 feet a year and most are far lower.







    Read page 2 here:


    World misled over Himalayan glacier meltdown - Times Online
    Last edited by attaboy; 18-01-2010 at 06:22 AM.

  2. #2
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    StrontiumDog's Avatar
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    So they are melting slower, but they are still melting....

  3. #3
    Mmmm, Bowling......
    mobs00's Avatar
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    Climate change seems to be turning into speculation based upon how much money the rich can make off of requiring the purchase of carbon credits.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    So they are melting slower, but they are still melting....
    How do you know this?

  5. #5
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    My ice cream melted yesterday

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    So they are melting slower, but they are still melting....
    How do you know this?

    It's just logical : we produce more and more heat (not counting C02), with our fires, industries, engines. Even our bodies produce heat !

    It's just obvious that the whole place gets slowly warmer, thus causing ice to melt everywhere.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    So they are melting slower, but they are still melting....
    How do you know this?
    Even the article doesn't say they aren't melting, it just says the date cited is wrong. Re-read it...

    Some nice links....

    Before and after photos of Glaciers in America

    Image Gallery: Glaciers Before and After | LiveScience.com

    Data showing global glacier mass

    ‘But the glaciers are not melting’—Except ... they are! | How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: Responses to the most common skeptical arguments on global warming | Grist

    Nice debunking site too. Lots of links the skeptics should read.


    Interestingly, this "news" is actually quite old news...it has been recycled. It was first published back in early December 2009. Something rather strange is going on. Here's a BBC link...

    BBC News - Himalayan glaciers melting deadline 'a mistake'
    Last edited by StrontiumDog; 18-01-2010 at 10:52 AM.
    "Slavery is the daughter of darkness; an ignorant people is the blind instrument of its own destruction; ambition and intrigue take advantage of the credulity and inexperience of men who have no political, economic or civil knowledge. They mistake pure illusion for reality, license for freedom, treason for patriotism, vengeance for justice."-Simón Bolívar

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nawty View Post
    My ice cream melted yesterday
    That's global warming for you.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunTzu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    So they are melting slower, but they are still melting....
    How do you know this?

    It's just logical : we produce more and more heat (not counting C02), with our fires, industries, engines. Even our bodies produce heat !

    It's just obvious that the whole place gets slowly warmer, thus causing ice to melt everywhere.
    and you think the heat produced by human activity can be comparable with the heat received from the sun ?

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    ^ Yes it can because that's what the despots have told them.

  11. #11
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    No surprise on the false declaration from the UN alphabet-soup idiots.

    In years to come I'll be able to say that I was right all-along how the global warming bollox was a scam right from the start.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobs00 View Post
    Climate change seems to be turning into speculation based upon how much money the rich can make off of requiring the purchase of carbon credits.
    Bingo! Regardless of respected political identities and subjectivity concerning changing climate conditions - pro, con, indifferent - one thing is very clear, it's big business.

  13. #13
    FREE ANTROBERTSON !!!! SunTzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wefearourdespot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SunTzu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    So they are melting slower, but they are still melting....
    How do you know this?

    It's just logical : we produce more and more heat (not counting C02), with our fires, industries, engines. Even our bodies produce heat !

    It's just obvious that the whole place gets slowly warmer, thus causing ice to melt everywhere.
    and you think the heat produced by human activity can be comparable with the heat received from the sun ?
    Don't remember saying that stupid thing. Could you make it up yourself or did you have to copy it from somewhere ?



    FYI, passive building architecture DOES take into account the body-generated heat, as well as every other source of heat in buildings. Such as light-bulbs, computers, fridges, washing machines, irons, and yes, ovens... That is, after having orientated the building so that the sun comes in during winter, and stays out during summer. Hope I made you really happy now I wrote it ?

  14. #14
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    I'd be interested to learn what you folks think of this "Science is Broken" site.
    Looking forward to your comments.

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