Thread: HAITI : Anger at US builds up

Originally Posted by Muadib

Originally Posted by Milkman

OP:

Thanks for the article. But why are US forces in Haiti?

Serious question.

Yeah, you don't see any kiwi, brit, or french troops on the ground, now do you???

The US is there because no other country has the where with all, the proximity and the intestinal fortitude to step in and assist... Who steps in whenever there is a crisis around the world, the US... And who is it that takes shit for it from those who sit on the sidelines and whing??? Easy answer, see above...

What a load of nationalistic bollocks. Intestinal fortitude?? Please, it's a relief effort not a John Wayne movie.

The US doesn't have the exclusive preserve on providing such help and aid. The US is there because they are one of the closet geographical neighbours. Ditto Cuba who has medical teams there.

It's a simple matter of practicality and commonsense; when the cyclones hit Samoa the aid efforts were predominantly lead by NZ and Aust. Strife in Indonesia, Australia lead the effort for the same reason. When there's some sort of medical emergency at the varying national bases in Antartica, NZ is charged with sending response teams.

Apparently they don't suffer from the same preciousness that sees them needing to toot their own horns however.

Next thing the US will be accused of robbing the Haitians of their natural resources and national wealth...

Originally Posted by Muadib

Next thing the US will be accused of robbing the Haitians of their natural resources and national wealth...

You bastards!

Originally Posted by Muadib

You mean all 4,500 kiwi troops come to the aid of foreign nations in need...

There are more US troops on the USS Carl Vinson that is currently in Haiti than in the entire sheep-shagger army... There are more people in the city where I live than in your entire fokking country... Get a grip PeeWee as you overestimate your significance in the grand scheme of things...

If you weren't so ignorant you would make me laugh...

'My dad is bigger than yours!'.

You feel the need to blow your own horn over aid efforts to a devasted country that you personally aren't even actually involved in and are turning it into some jingoistic, nationalistic chest-thumping exercise and you're calling me ignorant? You're the one that needs to get a grip, do you have any idea of how pathetic all that is.

By your own rationale that means that the standing Nth Korean army is superior to the US's, and that India and China are 'better' because they're more populated.

News flash Muadib: an accident of birth in being born in country X doesn't make you superior to people from country Y, no matter how much 'patriotic' propaganda you've been indoctrinated with. Why are so many of the Americans on this forum such big, insecure and precious, babies??

I agree with Blackgang, the black countries trying to run them selves after colonisation doesn't do a very good job .
But i also think the USA do a good job when disasters occur , and thankfully they do.
It was however sad that they couldn't for some reason on their own land.

Just seen on sky,
haitians, blasting the aid effort, saying nobody is doing enough,
people moaning about the americans taking over the airport.

Well some one has to act as traffic controller, why not america ? only one air port with major traffic, makes sense to me.

The amount of aid, given the logistics, is going to be a very hard objective to achieve a satisfactory outcome in the short term.

Looting and stealing, general anarchy, is prelevant in some areas, why are these haitians not working together.

This is a tragedy of biblical proportions, you would expect that every body and i mean everybody working together,
it seems f==ked if you do and f==ked if you don't.

People around the world are helping in a big way, thier is no room for moaning, just get on and help each other.
[ the president of haiti wants to take control of the rebuilding effort. so send the money and i'm sure with his track record his people will come first ]


Sorry guys it was just a rant at the futility of some attitudes.

Sorry to say it, and I'm not talking down Haiti etc, but these countries claim their independence etc but they are simply not capable of taking care of themselves and they expect the west to pick up the pieces when something goes south. The US and Europe should not get the flak from these ridiculuos countries when shit hits the fan. They all slate the west for not waving a magic wand to fix everything when it's wrong. These countries are not capable of administrating themselves postitively or taking care of themselves. It's freaking ridiculous that the west is expected to pick up the pieces after these hopelessly corrupt countries have made no effort to progress towards anything that even vaguely represents a normal country.

Ever heard of "Donor fatigue?"

These countries have almost no right to govern themselves as all they bring to thier indiginous populations are poverty and suffering and the elite simply get richer.

Many of these countries would benefit from a recolonisation of their lands as they are clearly incapable of taking care of themselves.

I am aware that this is a controversial idea in the PC world of the 21st century.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Sorry to say it, and I'm not talking down Haiti etc, but these countries claim their independence etc but they are simply not capable of taking care of themselves [...] These countries are not capable of administrating themselves postitively or taking care of themselves.

Dangerously similar speech to famous speeches the german chancellor was slamming to hungry crowds in a stadium, in 1930's Berlin.

OK, perhaps, but we (the west) are in a damded if we do and damded if we don't senario etc. Maybe the Yanks and the Europeans should just not interfer at all and let things take their course, the lefty liberals and 'bleeding heart' brigade would be the first to complain. If the US and Europe didn't fix these problems with no questions asked, even if just to allay their PC consiousnesses, there would be world wide disaster.

I am not advicating anything controversial but perhap a diagnosis of reality would be benefitial to those that live in La La land on these issues that wish to bash the west about their inaction and promote their own piousness on such issues, rememder the west has it's own problems, the USA can't even give it's population a healthcare system etc and if it didn't bail out the world food program all the time then 100 countries would starve.

There is much more to these issue than most do-gooders might imagine.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Sorry to say it, and I'm not talking down Haiti etc, but these countries claim their independence etc but they are simply not capable of taking care of themselves and they expect the west to pick up the pieces when something goes south. The US and Europe should not get the flak from these ridiculuos countries when shit hits the fan. They all slate the west for not waving a magic wand to fix everything when it's wrong. These countries are not capable of administrating themselves postitively or taking care of themselves. It's freaking ridiculous that the west is expected to pick up the pieces after these hopelessly corrupt countries have made no effort to progress towards anything that even vaguely represents a normal country.

Ever heard of "Donor fatigue?"

These countries have almost no right to govern themselves as all they bring to thier indiginous populations are poverty and suffering and the elite simply get richer.

Many of these countries would benefit from a recolonisation of their lands as they are clearly incapable of taking care of themselves.

I am aware that this is a controversial idea in the PC world of the 21st century.

Totally agree with your post in principle,
However the west can not, and should not get involved, over the long term, in helping change happen within these countries, it would be a loose loose situation.

I see you've just posted some of the reasons why it might not be a good idea.

Originally Posted by SunTzu

Dangerously similar speech to famous speeches the german chancellor was slamming to hungry crowds in a stadium, in 1930's Berlin.

Yay! Thread Godwinned!

Originally Posted by SunTzu

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Sorry to say it, and I'm not talking down Haiti etc, but these countries claim their independence etc but they are simply not capable of taking care of themselves [...] These countries are not capable of administrating themselves postitively or taking care of themselves.

Dangerously similar speech to famous speeches the german chancellor was slamming to hungry crowds in a stadium, in 1930's Berlin.

Isn't it about time to drop your rifle and run away???

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by Muadib

You mean all 4,500 kiwi troops come to the aid of foreign nations in need...

There are more US troops on the USS Carl Vinson that is currently in Haiti than in the entire sheep-shagger army... There are more people in the city where I live than in your entire fokking country... Get a grip PeeWee as you overestimate your significance in the grand scheme of things...

If you weren't so ignorant you would make me laugh...

'My dad is bigger than yours!'.

You feel the need to blow your own horn over aid efforts to a devasted country that you personally aren't even actually involved in and are turning it into some jingoistic, nationalistic chest-thumping exercise and you're calling me ignorant? You're the one that needs to get a grip, do you have any idea of how pathetic all that is.

By your own rationale that means that the standing Nth Korean army is superior to the US's, and that India and China are 'better' because they're more populated.

News flash Muadib: an accident of birth in being born in country X doesn't make you superior to people from country Y, no matter how much 'patriotic' propaganda you've been indoctrinated with. Why are so many of the Americans on this forum such big, insecure and precious, babies??

I've posted nothing nationalistic, yet you interpret it as such... I simply stated the facts, while you interpret this as nationalistic chest thumping in your usual denigrating style...

The question was 'why are US troops in Haiti', to which I responded... The fact is that the US is the only country that could respond in the shortest period of time, with the greatest presence, providing the highest level of aid... How many other countries have an aircraft carrier on exercise in the Caribbean at the time??? Doh!!!

The fact that I'm an American is a stroke of fate, just as you're a kiwi... Hardly relevant to the discussion... What's your point??? I'm grateful every day for my birthright, for my upbringing, for the level of education I was able to attain and my standard of living...

The OP was about anger generated by the US response, or lack there of, to the crisis in Haiti, with a bunch of frogs complaining about having to wait to be expatriated... Perhaps, just perhaps, aid missions took precedence over a bunch of whining french being whisked away to safety... To which you jump on the bandwagon attacking the one country that has the where with all and gumption to step up and actually do anything... Get a grip PeeWee... Next thing you know, you'll be complaining that the sun rises in the east...

Originally Posted by Muadib

Next thing the US will be accused of robbing the Haitians of their natural resources and national wealth...

Very unlikely, there is nothing left on this part of the island. Not even a piece of wood.

Strange, the other part (Dominican republic) is able to develop tourism and some wealth on the same island.

go away Ant and Muadib

as for the US actions, they seem to be putting "security" before feeding and health care for the population

the bottom line? maybe they are terrified that they will lose control of this little island and it will become another Cuba

Here's why U.S. forces are needed.

Haiti earthquake: police admit gangs have taken over Port-au-Prince

Haitian authorities conceded they had lost their battle to maintain order in Port-au-Prince after the leaders of the city's crime gangs reclaimed their old turf since being freed when the national prison collapsed last week.



By Bruno Waterfield
Published: 8:54PM GMT 19 Jan 2010

A private security guard stands outside a burning store in downtown Port-au-Prince Photo: REUTERS


The gangsters have stepped into the law and order vacuum, notably in the sprawling shanty town of Cite Soleil which they dominated before being locked up following police operations supported by United Nations troops over the last three years.
"Even as we are digging bodies out of buildings, they are trying to attack our officers," said Aristide Rosemond a Cite Soleil police inspector.

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The Haitian authorities, already weak and reliant on UN forces, are now crippled by heavy casualties and widespread destruction of infrastructure while international peacekeepers are focused on disaster relief.
Jean-Max Bellerive, Haiti's prime minister, has despaired of the state's ability to tackle a new post-earthquake crime wave sweeping his country's devastated capital.
"The problem is they have weapons so we cannot send the population or just any policemen to capture them," he said.
The morale and strength of Haiti's police has been severely reduced by the loss of experienced officers, killed or injured, leaving recently trained recruits to hold the line.
"We do not have the capacity to fix this situation. Haiti needs help. The Americans are welcome here. But where are they? We need them here on the street with us," said Dorsainvil Robenson, a police officer.
Police officers, whose limited success against slum gang lords has been based on the support of armoured UN troops, have now effectively given up by appealing to local vigilantes to take the law into their own hands.
"If you don't kill the criminals, they will all come back," Haitian police officers announce over loudspeakers from heavily armed checkpoints in the slum area.
Residents say that people have been killed and several women raped in a turf war between gangsters nicknamed "Belony" and "Bled" in the six days following the earthquake which destroyed the prison.
"The trouble is starting," said Jean-Semaine Delice, a 51-year-old father.
Ten Brazilian peacekeepers were killed when a key local UN checkpoint at the entrance to Cite Soleil, known as the "Blue House", collapsed. The UN also lost its chief, deputy chief and acting police commander in earthquake, creating a dangerous power vacuum at a time when international peacekeepers have committed their diminished forces to aiding survivors.

Haiti earthquake: police admit gangs have taken over Port-au-Prince - Telegraph