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callippo

there seems to be this belief that the $6n or so dollars that comes Israel's way each year courtesy of the United States is like some sort of straight cash grant.

it isn't. Quite a portion of the aid consists of loans payable WITH INTEREST. Other large recipients of US aid, such as Egypt, which receives nearly as much aid as Israel does, get a far higher proportion of straight no-strings cash.

besides this amount is just the tiniest pinprick on the enormous US budget. It consists of roughly 0.0001% of it. Americans certainly don't seem to be unduly concerned about it. I noticed one poll last year during the Gaza campaign where the numbers dropped compared to normally, but just about every poll I've ever seen on the matter shows that the US public overwhelmingly endorses the USA's support of Israel.

it is not a one-sided "free hand out". In return, the US has a staunch ally with vast intelligence resource. Much was learned about Soviet equipment in this theater during the cold war - including the capture, for the first and as far as I know only time, of a fully functional MiG fighter plane. That alone was probably worth every penny the US has provided to support this fellow democracy.

sabang

A fractious ally, given it's endless foot dragging on the peace process and establishment of the Palestinian state- in defiance of the International community and it's own previous government agreements. I have to agree with the vast Intelligence resources, although a somewhat two edged sword there too- most of the spies apprehended for carrying out espionage and selling US state secrets in recent years have been working for the Israeli's!



the top 16 recipients of U.S. foreign aid for 2005:

1. Israel 2.58 Billion
2. Egypt 1.84 Billion
3. Afganistan 0.98 Billion
4. Pakistan 0.70 Billion
5. Colombia 0.57 Billion
6. Sudan 0.50 Billion
7. Jordan 0.48 Billion
8. Uganda 0.25 Billion
9. Kenya 0.24 Billion
10. Ethiopia 0.19 Billion
11. South Africa 0.19 Billion
12. Peru 0.19 Billion
13. Indonesia 0.18 Billion
14. Bolivia 0.18 Billion
15. Nigeria 0.18 Billion
16. Zambia 0.18 Billion



That, of course is just the 'official' budget- the real tally is considerably higher as is widely known, be it through Debt guarantees, soft loans, or charity routed via Defence and Intelligence budgets.

__________________
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

callippo

I suggest you read up a little on the 2000 Camp David talks before you start blaming Israel for 'foot-dragging' when it comes to establishing a Palestinian state, also who it was who rejected the 1947 partition plan that would have established such an entity sixty years ago - a pattern of rejectionism on the part of the Arabs that has continued ever since.

yes, there's been a few convictions of spies working for Israel over the years, but not 'most'. Take Johnathon Pollard, who has been in jail for over a quarter of a century, despite stringent efforts/appeals to free him from the highest levels of the Israeli government, he's still in prison all that time and will likely die there. So much for the fabled power of the Jewish lobby - any US President could have freed him anytime they felt like it in minutes with the stroke of a pen.

woodenshoe

Abbas will not seek re-election...

The question arises, if Abbas could not do it which Palestinian can? He did not have a militant past. He was not involved in any armed struggle in the past. It will be hard to find a Palestinian with cleaner hands then him. Abbas is known as a pragmatic. He called for an end to the 2nd intifada. He will be remembered as a good willing Palestinian leader who did everything Isreal and he US asked and got NOTHING in return.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Abbas will not seek re-election

woodenshoe

well i did, but not at zionist.com..

Misrepresentation of Barak's offer at Camp David as "generous" and "unprecedented"

Barak's flexibility on Jerusalem as well as on questions related to settlements, land, and borders, however much it represented a change from his predecessors, was essentially tactical in nature. He remains committed to winning Palestinian, Arab, and international acceptance of Israeli sovereignty over the Old City's Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif, as well as much if not all of East Jerusalem.
While demonstrating a degree of innovation unmatched by any of his predecessors, he is determined to assure Israel's strategic control over both the West Bank and Gaza Strip, including their airspace, borders, and transport routes to and from settlements, necessarily including the bypass roads whose construction, with U.S. support and financing, has been a central feature of the physical transformation of the West Bank during the Oslo period.
The exact dimensions of the amount of territory Israel wants to annex, the areas where it wants to retain a preeminent security presence, and the territory it is prepared to transfer to Palestinian sovereignty as part of a final settlement are as yet unknown

As a consequence of final status discussions in recent months, three elements of Israel's view of settlements can be confidently discerned:
• Israel intends to annex territories where at least 80 percent of the more than 200,000 West Bank settlers now reside. As reports elsewhere in this issue make clear, the Barak government is already treating these settlement areas, at least in terms of approving their expansion, as though they were part of Israel.
• No settlements will be evacuated, ever, as part of an agreement with the Palestinians.
• The security of all settlements, including those that may be placed under nominal Palestinian sovereignty, will form an important component of any agreemen

Examining Camp David — FMEP

In the Guardian newspaper on 14 April 2001, diplomatic editor Ewen MacAskill wrote:

The Israelis portrayed it as the Palestinians receiving 96% of the West Bank. But the figure is misleading. The Israelis did not include parts of the West Bank they had already appropriated. The Palestine that would have emerged from such a settlement would not have been viable. It would have been in about half-a-dozen chunks, with huge Jewish settlements in between - a Middle East Bantustan.

Perota

it's a bit long but ...

woodenshoe

ok in youtube..

woodenshoe

we will trade that against the stolen F16 secrets so Israel could build its own fighter...ok?

woodenshoe

Ben-Gurion:
"Before the founding of the state, on the eve of its creation, our main interest was self-defence … But now the issue at hand is conquest, not self-defence. As for setting the borders – it’s an open-ended matter. In the Bible as well as in history there are all kinds of definitions of the country’s borders, so there’s no real limit."

woodenshoe

Israel receives about $3 billion in direct assistance each year, roughly one-fifth of the foreign aid budget, and worth about $500 a year for every Israeli. This largesse is especially striking since Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to that of South Korea or Spain.

Other recipients get their money in quarterly installments, but Israel receives its entire appropriation at the beginning of each fiscal year and can thus earn interest on it. Most recipients of aid given for military purposes are required to spend all of it in the US, but Israel is allowed to use roughly 25 per cent of its allocation to subsidise its own defence industry. It is the only recipient that does not have to account for how the aid is spent, which makes it virtually impossible to prevent the money from being used for purposes the US opposes, such as building settlements on the West Bank. Moreover, the US has provided Israel with nearly $3 billion to develop weapons systems, and given it access to such top-drawer weaponry as Blackhawk helicopters and F-16 jets. Finally, the US gives Israel access to intelligence it denies to its Nato allies and has turned a blind eye to Israel’s acquisition of nuclear weapons.

LRB · John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt · The Israel Lobby

MrG

If this is accurate (no source attributed) then Israel has been scamming America for a long time. Sure would like to see this quote on a billboard.

woodenshoe

Perhaps after independence Ben-Gurion changed his mind? Apparently not. Tom Segev, in The First Israelis, quotes him as follows:

Before the founding of the state, on the eve of its creation, our main interest was self-defence … But now the issue at hand is conquest, not self-defence. As for setting the borders – it’s an open-ended matter. In the Bible as well as in history there are all kinds of definitions of the country’s borders, so there’s no real limit.

LRB · Vol. 28 No. 11 · 8 June 2006 · letters

same article as in post #110 letters: Vol. 28 No. 11 · 8 June 2006

i should have made it one post...

woodenshoe

1949: The First Israelis

First published in 1986 in Israel, Tom Segev's book excited controversy by suggesting that the founders of the Jewish state courted war in 1948 by refusing to negotiate in good faith with Jordan, Egypt, and Syria. Segev cites, for instance, the argument of finance minister David Horowitz that the West Bank should be annexed not to Israel but to Jordan, because the West Bank would be a financial burden on any power that occupied it and Jordan might therefore become dependent on Israel for assistance--and thus easy to manipulate politically. Segev also explores the ideological disagreements among Israel's founders, some of which are being revisited today in the clash between religious and secular politicians.

MrG

Thanks, Woodenshoe. I should check that out.

woodenshoe

Israel approves plan to build 900 homes - CNN.com

Jerusalem (CNN) -- Israel approved a construction plan Tuesday for hundreds of houses in a disputed neighborhood on Jerusalem's southern outskirts, quickly prompting criticism from Washington.
The Jewish state's Interior Ministry said it had approved the construction of 900 units in Gilo. The approval of construction moves forward the process for the project; it will now be opened to public objections.
Final approval will follow several other stages, and construction is likely several years away.
Washington said it was dismayed at the move.

Frustrated Palestinians to appeal to UN for state - Yahoo! News

JERUSALEM – A Palestinian drive to ask the U.N. Security Council to endorse a state unilaterally, put forward by a top negotiator Sunday, appeared more an expression of frustration with U.S. and Israeli policies and stalled peace talks than a real effort to go it alone.
A resolution for a Palestinian state could face a veto from the U.S., Israel's main ally. But if the Security Council approved it, consequences could be even more severe.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rejected the move, warning Israel would retaliate.
"There is no substitute for negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians," Netanyahu said in a speech at the Saban Forum in Jerusalem Sunday evening, saying he wanted a full peace agreement with them.

Then he warned, "Any unilateral action would only unravel the framework of agreements between us and can only lead to one-sided steps on the part of Israel."

"any palestine action" i think he ment..

MrG

What framework is he going to destroy that he hasn't already trampled to death? He goes along with only those existing conditions that he wants to for as long as he wants to, he came into office saying he was not in favor of a two state solution and is not negotiating in good faith. His statement proves that it won't tolerate any action that it doesn't approve of, ?...and can only lead to on-sided steps on the state of Israel."

I'd be inclined to call his bluff, but I don't think the timing is right. Besides, it's not my country I'd be betting.

In the end, America would veto it in a heartbeat. It just wouldn't allow itself to be put in the bind of having to make a hard commitment to a Palestian State, at least in the forum of the UN, and this government is too well paid for to break out of that bind and do the right thing.