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MrG

Source, please.

MrG

Can't argue with any of that. I still don't understand the hold the Israeli lobby has on the U.S. Congress and President, past and present. It can't be some profound justice deserved by the State of Israel. And if it were just money...excuse me, election contributions...then there would be cracks appearing over the years, but the hold only seems to get tighter. This makes me think Israel is part of a long term strategic plan planted in the depths of U.S. long term policy. Entirely plausable, but that stategy seems to be leading us down the road of long term conflict. Which leads me to think that maybe we're just stupid.

sabang

The US taxpayer is the stooge in all this, as usual. Here you have tiny Israel- a country not even as big as a couple of Australia's largest farms- that is also the worlds biggest beggar nation, by far- and all funded by the American taxpayer. Amazing. It's not even poor. I'm sure the considerable amount of American citizens living in poverty would be eternally grateful to receive a fraction of the largesse shown to Israeli citizens by the US government. I doubt this is even a situation many Israeli's would be forever comfortable with- most people prefer to be self reliant, and stand on their own two feet, not perennial charity cases. The same would apply to one's country, surely.

I suppose the logical way forward, if the Netanyahu government continues to obfuscate and violate previous peace agreements, is to start cutting the purse strings, then reduce arms sales and diplomatic status. Obviously, the Right wing Netanyahu government would be toppled in the process, and replaced by a more reasonable and honest partner for peace- and a government that actually thinks about the long term existence of the nation, and it's people. The average Israeli, like the average Palestinian, is prepared to accept a viable Land for Peace deal in exchange for security.

__________________
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Panda

40% of the worlds Jewish population live in USA. Almost as many as live in Israel. Jews in America account for less than 2% of the US population.

However Jews have vastly disproportionate representation in media control, finance and government. It has been said that the Jewish lobby controls the US government through their huge empire of media control. The extremely benevolent attitude of US governments (past and present), towards Israel seems to back up these allegations.

Kapilvastu

There is no stopping these vicious Israeli criminals, they gobble up more Palestinian land every day, and America- even the Obama administration- gives them protection and power to do so. Much of the world's unrest today stems from the Zionist theft of the land of Palestine and it continued murder and brutalization of its people. Heckled! They should have done more than that to him!

MrG

So very simple and reasonable expectation. Modest in approach, considering Israeli intrangagence. But so very very far away. The reason:
We are a very well propogandized people, but without the advantage of knowing that we are propogandized at all, IMO.

callippo

it has been said that the Jewish lobby controls the US government through their huge empire of media control.

only by stormfront.com and the rest of them who publish lists of people that have executive positions in various US media concerns that have, to them, Jewish sounding names but who usually turn out not to be Jewish at all. Sorry buddy but that's straight out of antisemitism101.

the pro-Arab oil lobby has far more influence in Washington than any Jewish lobby. It was for this reason that the State department dragged its feet for years in wanting to recognise Israel in the first place back in the 1940s.

Panda

A quick Google of " Jewish control of US media" turns up 2 million, two hundred and twenty thousand entries. Passing such a vast and diverse collection of opinion off as pure anti semitism is rather simplistic and a very poor argument.

I suppose now you are going to start talking about the holocaust?

crazy dog

Google Arab control of US media and 13 million come up-so what. I must say callippo''s posts really are interesting and obviously not just 'knowledge' off the web like most people trying to back up their predudice against Israel.

AntRobertson

We must be reading different posts then - because the majority of what I have seen from him in this thread is directly cut 'n pasted from other sources. Cut 'n pasted unattributed at that. Could it perhaps not simply be that you find them "interesting" because they support your own position.

__________________
The Revolution will be televised... Eleven o'clock... Channel 10.

Panda

Not on my computer it doesn't. You must be using a different Google to me.

In fact you would be hard pressed to find one serious article alleging Arab control of the US media.


Arab control of US media - Google Search=

You dont give your arguments much credibility by telling lies.

woodenshoe

^ the only thing left to do when you run out of valid arguments.....

woodenshoe

Although we will never beat the threads the with the words "shag or "nickers" in the title, i am glad to see the situation in the middle east is of much concern to many people. The highest number of replies and views on the forum home page so far...

MrG

Very interesting. Source, please.

callippo

Not on my computer it doesn't. You must be using a different Google to me.

here in the Philippines just taking the 'of' out and googling 'Arab control US media' instead of 'Arab control OF US media' raises the number of replies from less than 2 million to more than 15 million, which only goes to show that you shouldn't have brought it up in the first place. Yes, it does depend on what google you use. There's around 180 nation states in the world.

esultang 1 - 10 sa halos 15,400,000 para sa arab control of us media . (0.29 segundo)

it was for this reason that the State department dragged its feet for years in wanting to recognise Israel in the first place back in the 1940s. Very interesting. Source, please.

National Archives Celebrates 60th Anniversary of the State of Israel

serious students of American government point to Truman's man-with-a-mission determination to recognise the state of Israel as probably THE textbook example of an elected President doing what the voters elected him to do, act the Chief Executive, and take control of foreign policy - in the process telling the rest of the government to quit second-guessing and go and fuck yourselves and do what you are told, I was elected to do this and you weren't.

Panda

Guess you are connected to a different World Wide Web then. Is it Mars or Youranus?

sabang

In the blue corner we have the 'neo- zionists' such as calippo, quoting us ancient history, historical distortions, and suchforth. His point or agenda- Palestine is Israeli, the Occupation should continue, and the Zionist agenda (at it's most demented) is that Israel should keep expanding, into the Jordan, Lebanon, and Sinai. Dream on, sing to your own choir.

In the red corner, we have the Islamic nutters. Israel is to be destroyed, the Jews eliminated or driven to the four corners of the Globe (again). Yeh, dream on- sing to your own choir. Both nutters, at their most arcane, will even start selectively quoting Biblical or Koranic nonsense to 'support' their case.

Then we have the small matter of the rest of the World- the international community, the UN, the EU, US government, most Jews, most Palestinians, many Israeli political and military figures past and present, including Rabin, Sharon, the previous Israeli government, the current Israeli Opposition- who have all realised the Truth, and it's Inevitability.

So let them sing to each other on the Fringes- they never bore of it no matter how irrelevant they make themselves. The Real World has real business to conclude, and if the fringe loonies on both sides want to absent themselves from the process, fine.

If it all collapses in a heap, the long term joke is on Israel however- unless you are one of those Messianic Jews or Christians that are waiting for Armageddon I suppose.

AntRobertson

Both as bad as each other.

Panda

I dont think its a standoff at the moment there Sabang. The Zionist settlers are encroaching further into Palestine every year. The conflict these days is not about Israels right to exist behind its own borders, but more about the theft of Palestinian land and oppression of Palestinian people. I cant see any end to the conflict in sight until USA butts out of it by ceasing to fund and protect Israel, and allows the UN Security Council to manage the situation.

MrG

Not likely to happen anytime in the near or distant future, as far as I can see.

Maybe a popular shift towards getting tough with Israel, but I don't see it coming without some strong leadership. Whatever the American people think of Israel unfiltered by the media is unclear to me. Even liberals make excuses for them. I think most Americans have made up their minds to like Israel with maybe some soft reservations here and there, but the reservations aren't enough to motivate learning more. It takes an effort to learn more on that subject since there is not one major news outlet that I know of that is fair and balanced on the subject.

The other thing that might happen is if the US is forced to change it's position on Israel. If it becomes too obvious what our support (with nothing in return) is costing us, either in money or national security, then maybe.... But again, there's no leadership against Israel here. To criticize Israel puts you on a list as suspect, probably extreme. The anti-semitism canard is never far away.

Eventually (this is speculation) Israel will do something that will clearly put USA's nuts in the fire. Then it wil be very obvious what this alliance is costing us. Then you might see some movement. Don't count on it, though.