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Norton

Learn something everyday. All along I thought it was derived from the much maligned Philistines of biblical fame.

callippo

All along I thought it was derived from the much maligned Philistines og biblical fame. Learn something new every day.

always glad to be of service. It's one of the myriad of common misconceptions on this subject.

the Romans renamed the land from 'Judea' to 'Syria/Palestina' precisely to rub salt in the Jews' wounds following the eventual failure of the massive Bar Kockhba revolt in AD135 - by naming it after their ancient enemy, the Philistines.

what causes the confusion is that Arabs call Palestine - a Latin/European word, which they have never used to refer to themselves or the land until recent decades - Filastin because there is no P sound in the Arabic language. Hence, also, 'Pakistan' becomes 'Bakistan' in Arabic.

Arabs often seek to claim that 'Palestinians' are like modern-day 'Philistines' and claim a direct lineage, because it gives creedence to their case that they, rather than being the foreign invaders and colonisers that they were, have some kind of ancient biblical-era connection with the land like Jews do.

there is no relation between the ancient Philistines and today's Palestinian Arabs (who mostly descend from immigrants in recent centuries). In fact, it is likely that the Israelite nation formed when Canaanite and other regional migratory tribes coalesed to fight the Philistine invaders, who were a sea-going people whose homeland was Crete and the Aegean islands. Though the etymology is uncertain, it is believed that 'Philistine' derives from 'Phlistm' - the Semitic root of which actually means 'invader'.

Rural Surin

Both 'Palestina' and 'Philistine' are largely European-based terms. As the Semitic regions aren't European.....what are the local references {and terminology}?

Jet Gorgon

Hmm, a pity Europe has done nothing for Israel. No wonder things are as they are.

Norton

Huh? The very establishment of Israel in the UN was supported by nearly all European countries.

Panda

Because no one wanted them there.
Hitler wanted to ship them all off to some distant places, but nobody would accept them. Thats why he came up with the "final solution" by turning them into ash.
There was a ship load of them sailing around the world looking for refuge when Hitler started his rampage. They got turned away at every port including USA.
Africa and South America were considered as alternatives to get rid of the European Jews after WW2 until Britain came up with the bright idea of dumping them off in the Palestinian territory which was under their control at the time. That suited the Jews just fine as there had been isolated Jewish efforts to reclaim their biblical home land by force of arms since the late 1800s. When the Jews arrived en masse in Palestine after 1948 they started to force the Palestinians out of the place. Sometimes by legitimately purchasing Palestinian land and sometimes by ruthless warfare. The British tried to act as peacekeepers, but the new Israelis turned on the Brits and started to attack them using terrorist tactics. The Brits soon figured out there was nothing in it for them by staying and left the Israelis to it. Some years later the US took an interest in Israel as a strategic Allie in the oil rich Middle East. Its all there in the history books.

callippo

it has been about six or seven years since the last suicide bombing I believe.

LOL. Dreaming again are we?

Why don't you just put 'list of suicide bombings Israel' into google and see what happens?

you'll find there's been something like twenty or thirty in the past six years despite the vigilance of the Israelis in preventing many more.

sabang

You have a point about Palestine/ Philistine Norton-

The name "Palestine" is the cognate of an ancient word meaning "Philistines" or "Land of the Philistines"

Thats from Wiki- it makes sense that the Latin term Palastina was 'cognated' thus. But Palestine of Roman times included several tribal areas/ Kingdoms besides Judea and Philistine- Samaria and Galilee and parts of Phoenicia spring to mind. I doubt it was named Palastina just to piss off the Hebrews.

__________________
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

sabang

Apr 17, 2006 - Eleven people were killed and over 60 wounded in a suicide bombing during the Passover holiday at the Rosh Ha'ir shawarma restaurant, near the old central bus station in Tel Aviv. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

Jan 29, 2007 - Three people were killed in a suicide bombing in a bakery in the southern city of Eilat: bakery employees and Eilat residents Emi Haim Elmaliah, 32, Michael Ben Sa'adon, 27, and Israel Zamalloa, 26. The Islamic Jihad and the Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 4, 2008 - Lyubov Razdolskaya, 73, of Dimona was killed and 38 wounded - Razdolskaya's husband critically - in a terror attack carried out by a suicide bomber at a shopping center in Dimona. A police officer shot and killed a second terrorist before he detonated his explosive belt. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack and praised it as an "heroic act".

According to the Israeli ministry of foreign affairs, these are the last three Palestinian suicide bombings.

MrG

[/quote]Maps of ancient Canaan/Palestine/Israel & Brief History

woodenshoe

if you need to go back that far to justify the crimes committed today, every sane person knows you are wrong....

MrG

Here you go, Cal. Just one example.

callippo

I think some of you posting here might care to take a look at this graphic to get a basic overview of the region.

Middle East : 5000 years of history in 90 seconds
Imperial History of the Middle East

#26 Its all there in the history books

evidently none of which you have read, judging by the infantilism of your post. You've got your chronology all wrong, as well as jumping to some seriously silly conclusions you appear to have grabbed out of thin air.

Britain came up with the bright idea of dumping them

LOL. Jews immigrated to Palestine on their own initiative, using their own resources, and had been doing so for half a century before the start of mandate Palestine in 1918. By the 1880s, Jews were already the majority in Jerusalem. In fact the British tried to restrict Jewish immigration into Palestine as much as they could, particularly after the 1939 White Paper when a full blockade was established with the expressed aim of keeping as many Jews out as possible - Jews that in many cases ended up going to their deaths in Nazi occupied Europe.

by contrast, the British did nothing to stop masses of Arabs from immigrating into Palestine from countries like Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq, attracted by the economic growth, jobs, and development in mostly the Jewish areas. Few of these Arabs had even the most tenuous link to the land, and yet seventy years later many of their descendants are still there. Many of those descendants are also today classed as Palestinian 'refugees', even when their ancestors might only have immigrated from Iraq in say 1945 and become 'refugees' in 1948!!!! Yes! An Arab descended from somebody who only went to get a job on a Jewish building site and lived in Palestine for a three years, their grandchildren are even now classed as Palestinian 'refugees' sixty-five years later! How silly is that?

[i]the 15 member court's ruling is non-binding'.

which means, of course, that they're just getting on a soapbox and waffling. Israel's High Court has itself ruled that parts of the fence were illegal and had to be dismantled, which they were. What a non-binding UN court rules doesn't mean shit in Israel, just as it wouldn't mean shit in the United States or anywhere else where it doesn't have any powers to enforce its rulings.

and don't forget that the fence itself is the biggest single reason why there's been a lessening of successful suicide bomb attacks against Israel in recent years.


As the Semitic regions aren't European.....what are the local references {and terminology

Prior to the Mandate Period, obviously the Turks had administered the land for over 400 years, they divided it into several jurisdictions at various times, none of which were called 'Palestine', or anything close to it, as obviously the word is no more Turkish than it is Arab. Arabs of the area would usually refer to the region as 'southern Syria'.

Even well into the 20th century, Arabs were denying the very existence of Palestine :

Initially Arabs welcomed the idea of a Jewish return to Syria (yup, they didn't yet identify the land as "Palestine").

Summarizing the proceedings of the 1913 Arab Congress, Abdul-Hamid Yahrawi wrote:

|| All of us, both Muslims and Christians, have the best of feelings towards the Jews.... they are our brothers in race and we regard them as SYRIANS who were forced to leave the country at one time but whose hearts always beat together with ours, we are certain that our Jewish brothers the world over will know how to help us so that our common interests may succeed and our common country will develop both materially and morally.

At the Paris Peace conference of 1919, Emir Faisal would write:

|| ...there is room in SYRIA for us both. Indeed, I think that neither can be a real success without the other.

Later they outright denied the existence of "Palestine":

Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission (1936):

|| There is no such country! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of SYRIA.

In 1946, speaking before the Anglo-American Committee, Arab-American historian Professor Philip Hitti (Princeton University) stated:

|| There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in history.

The Arab Higher Committee [the body which represented the Arabs of Mandate Palestine] submitted a statement to the UN General Assembly in May, 1947, saying:

|| Palestine was part of the Province of SYRIA... politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political identity.

Ahmed Shuqiri, who would later be the first chairman of the PLO, told the UN Security Council:

|| It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern SYRIA.

It was only after 1967, when Israel took the territories in a defensive war, that the modern pretense of an "Arab Palestine", retroactively creating a history that never existed, came into being.

The reason why this was done is best explained by Zuheir Muhsin (who was Secretary-General of the Sa‘iqa terrorist group from 1971 to 1979 and a member of the PLO Executive Council):

|| There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity, because it is in the interest of the Arabs to encourage a separate Palestinian identity in contrast to Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight against Zionism.

Israeli empire builders.

stuff like that just makes me laugh frankly. I wouldn't be surprised if you subscribe to the notion, beloved of antisemites from Karachi to Kansas, and everywhere in between, that the Israelis have a 'secret agenda' to expand their tiny country, which is roughly the size of Lake Michigan, from the 'Nile to the Euphrates' - despite no Israeli politician in the 60 years of its history, however extreme, ever having been quoted as saying that this is a desirable thing. You still get nutjobs subscribing to the notion that the blue stripes on the Israeli flag, or even the design of the Israeli 10 agorot coin (Arafat believed this), is 'evidence' that the Israelis have this 'secret agenda' to expand their borders this far.

of course, when you come across somebody that actually believes this nonsense, and there's plenty of them, all you can do is just hope that the guy with the butterfly net catches up with them as quickly as possible before they do themselves or somebody else some serious damage.

if the Israelis are 'empire builders', given the massive military superiority they have enjoyed for the past forty years over the Arabs, then they must be pretty useless at it, no? Or perhaps they might have managed to carve themselves an 'empire' that is rather bigger than the 3rd largest lake in the United States?

MrG

You keep saying that Palestinians are not a nation. Well, like you said, Jews came to the the area...they were not a nation. They coalesced into an army and took what they wanted from people who had been living there for generations. You can call it Palestine. You can call it Hollywood, but let me give you some simple history: a band of Europeans imported themselves into the territory in-mass and took what was not theirs claiming their religeon gave them the right. They then launched a war and took more--best farmland in the territory and lots of water. They then proceded to create outposts of civilians, armed to the teeth, and squat. If it was your home they were taking, would you step aside? Would you shoot back? Would you throw a bomb or two?
And Europeans arrived by the boat load and claimed the land as theirs. Jews from anywhere on earth can go there now with government aid and have all the rights. Can anyone else..? No! People who were living there have to get out of the way for all the newcomers.
Consider that Zionism was created as the political wing of a religious group in the previous century. So where's the ancient people with the right of possession. No matter how far back you want to go in the tedium of history, there isn't one. The land has been claimed and reclaimed for thousands of years. The people who were living there in 1948 got screwed. But that's alright in your opinion. It was done by nice religeous people who just wanted to grow oranges and be left alone...after they took what wasn't theirs.
Try sticking to the issues. If you want to associate me with anti-semites you better have a good reason. But don't bother looking. You won't find any antisemitism with my name on it. Calling out the State of Israel on its barbarism against the indigenous population of the land it rules with the gun is not antisemitism. For all you know I am a Jew.

You can paint the Star of David on jack boots, but they're still jack boots on pogrom in the ghetto. Gaza, for example.

Norton

The folks at odds with each other in the region have one common trait. Never forgive, never forget. When there is no excuse for some act of insanity, justify it by blaming the other guy for some wrong doing no matter how obscure.

Works best when folks have holy books to remind the children of past sins committed by the bad guys.

__________________
There is such a thing as a nation being so right that it does not need to convince others by force that it is right.

Woodrow Wilson

Whiteshiva

Not much of an olive branch

Oct 15th 2009 | AL-MUGHAYIR
From The Economist print edition
The plight of rural Palestinians on the West Bank is as grim as ever



AFPA Palestinian farmer, stumped again

“WHAT did the trees do?” says Muhammad Abu Awad, a retired teacher of agriculture and father of 14 children, as he looks gloomily at his ravaged field. Twisted, silvery stubs are all that remain of a lush grove that once offered up a yearly abundance of fat green olives.

The vandals came at night from Adei Ad, a Jewish settlers’ outpost deemed “illegal” even by the Israeli government, near Shvut Rachel, an established West Bank settlement that is judged illegal in international but not Israeli law. Working fast, unnoticed by Palestinian landowners in the nearby Arab village of al-Mughayir, the settlers cut down nearly 200 olive trees, of which 70 belonged to Mr Abu Awad. As a result, he reckons to have lost income worth around $3,400 that he would have earned from this year’s harvest. But that is not all. “I planted these trees with my own hands 35 years ago”, he says, wistfully touching the stumps, now wrapped in sackcloth to protect them from the sun. Mr Abu Awad hopes his trees will recover and one day bear fruit again.



As usual at harvest time, tension between Palestinian farmers and Jewish settlers has risen. The olive tree deeply stirs the emotions of Palestinians. It is a symbol of their struggle and a vital part of their rural economy. According to their ministry of agriculture, nearly 500,000 olive trees have been bulldozed, burnt down or uprooted in the territories since the second intifada (uprising) began in 2000. Israel’s army has cleared swathes of groves to create open areas in the Gaza Strip and along the security barrier being built on the western side of the West Bank, often taking big bites out of Palestinian land. The Israelis have also cut down thousands of trees near the Jewish settlements. Palestinians and human-rights groups have repeatedly castigated the Israeli army for failing to stop such destruction. The settlers say terrorists hide among the trees.

In recent years the Palestinians have usually been able to pick their olives under the protection of the Israeli army and police. Charities that help the farmers say the army has been taking this job seriously, letting the Palestinians harvest without being harassed by the settlers. But they criticise the soldiers for hectoring the farmers into rushing the picking and say the soldiers could do more to protect the trees before the harvest begins, especially in hot spots near ideologically extreme settlements.

Many of the settlers pursue a “price-tag policy”, deliberately instigating violence and mayhem so that the Israeli military and political establishment is loth to take action, such as evacuating the 100-plus “illegal” settlements, for fear of further violence. As international criticism has mounted, even in America, several Israeli governments have promised to dismantle the outposts but so far little has been done. The settlers are generally against the peace process, because it could mean their expulsion. So whenever there are signs of negotiation, they increase their attacks—among other things, on olive trees. They want to show who controls the land.

Binyamin Netanyahu’s right-wing Israeli government has plainly emboldened the settlers. “Now they fear no one,” says a Palestinian villager in al-Mughayir. When the ruling politicians seem to back the settlers, the Israeli soldiers feel less obliged to protect the Palestinian farmers.

Mr Abu Awad says he is determined to fight to keep his land. “I’ll sleep on my land to protect it,” he says. “I tell my children: if I die, they should bury me where my blood was spilled. I’m in love with my land.”

__________________
Any error in tact, fact or spelling is purely due to transmissional errors...

Panda

And some people still wonder why there is Palestinian resistance to these criminal acts.

Takeovers

This is the first major world event when I was just old enough to be interested in what was going on. I remember it quite well first hand.

Before the fighting started there were months of constant threats by the arabic natios to destroy Israel. They massed their troops at the borders on the Egyptian and the Syrian border.

When they finally managed to force Jordan into their coalition, Israel struck first and it struck well. Good on them.

It is just empty talk to discuss if the Arab Nations meant what they were saying or if it was just empty threats without the will to carry it out. A Nation as small as Israel geografical was cannot afford to wait for the tanks rolling.

And whenever there was a real chance for any kind of lasting peace Israel took up the offer as with Jordan and Egypt. They sometimes had to be pressured to do it, that's true but they were pressured by the US and they accepted.

Dug

^ Yeah but what about the jews? 6 million dead in the holocaust.

Norton

Agree and you can add the Soviets to the list favoring the UN resolution.