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plorf · 02-07-2009, 05:58 PM

Damn.. I wanted to red you Rob for wasting that space without bothering to argue... but greened you instead.

the dogcatcher · 02-07-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plorf

It's a myth that Africa can't sustain and feed its population. That might be true for India, especially as the rising wealth of the middle class causes a change in their diet, but Africa simply is misgoverned. They don't know how to farm, they lack the money to invest and the massive dislocation of white farmers and consequent redistribution of farm land by corrupt politicians isn't helping either.
There are a couple of African countries with very little chance of an agriculture above self-sufficiency, but in general Africa could not only feed itself but become a major agricultural exporter. But a growing population coupled with a declining agricultural industry in some countries without any birth control is of course Bono's wet dream. Food aid and charity concerts for the next decades to come.
Just like Indias population growth feeds up all its economic growth.

So it,s not a myth, and you just gave the reasons. Not a lack of land or water more a lack of knowhow and dreadfull leadership. Bit like Thailand.

ItsRobsLife · 02-07-2009, 06:14 PM

^^

Hahaha oh well next time.. if their is one.

I can't be bothered with arguing with Jet anymore.
I've proven my point with her many times but she can't concede a point or agree to disagree, it's just a waste of keystrokes nowadays.

As for Rural Surin well you know he has good days and bad but he can be quite obtuse when he wants to be.

I don't claim any affinity to any politiical beliefs or religion, but some find it convenient to place labels on others, I will read anything to get a varied viewpoint and I will reserve my judgement on it's relevance until finished and wouldn't repeat it as fact unless I have been able verify it's findings with other sources, when one deliberately restricts their pool of information in line with their predudices, that person has already stopped thinking.

Anyway enough of all this, the sun is shining, we've got a heatwave on the way and I've got better things to do.

pompeybloke · 02-07-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsRobsLife

The Rwandan genocidal war can be directly linked to overpopulation in the area.

Holy camoly! What kind of Kool-Aid have you and Buttfly been drinking today? I think you could start with the nice Belgians who colonised the country and made the Tutsis superior to the Hutus. Nice way to divide the people, huh? So, the Belgies left and the tribes clashed. The main reason for the 1994 genocide, besides the p*ss poor economy, was the mysterious plane crash that killed the Prez, a Hutu.

That's it...a case of the haves minority against the have nots majority. Straight war at tribal extermination. World didn't give a toss either. No oil involved, no chosen people like Israel, so who cares. Was there 1999 and it was well calm, asked what tribe people were and they all said 'Rwandan'...t'rific' I thought.

Jet Gorgon · 04-07-2009, 01:51 AM

^ That is terrific. It reminds me of Tito's Yugoslavia. As much of an a*hole as he was, Serbs and Croats lived together quite peacefully back then.
Poor robski can't understand these things and can only pout that we don't give a toss about his narrow views.

ItsRobsLife · 04-07-2009, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Poor robski can't understand these things and can only pout that we don't give a toss about his narrow views.

Just another day at the 'office' eh Jet.

November Rain · 04-07-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plorf

Hypocrisy. Good on Rwanda for pragmatically trying to solve a major problem that all sub-saharan African countries struggle with. Are the moralists who want to deny Rwandans the right of their own legislation willing to care and cough up the cash for the disabled kids ? Let's not forget that late abortions are legal in many countries in Europe in case your kid is disabled. Oh but maybe abortions are better than sterilisations...
Sterilising disabled citizens is the only solution for a country that can't afford the Western way of "getting rid of disabled kids" (ie. putting them in homes for the handicapped, paid by the public, so the parents can forget about them)

Agreed. Excellent post again, Plorf.

crippen · 04-07-2009, 12:01 PM

Sterilising the disabled now but the next step,exterminateing is only a little way off???

DrB0b · 04-07-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by November Rain

Quote:

Originally Posted by plorf

Hypocrisy. Good on Rwanda for pragmatically trying to solve a major problem that all sub-saharan African countries struggle with. Are the moralists who want to deny Rwandans the right of their own legislation willing to care and cough up the cash for the disabled kids ? Let's not forget that late abortions are legal in many countries in Europe in case your kid is disabled. Oh but maybe abortions are better than sterilisations...
Sterilising disabled citizens is the only solution for a country that can't afford the Western way of "getting rid of disabled kids" (ie. putting them in homes for the handicapped, paid by the public, so the parents can forget about them)

Agreed. Excellent post again, Plorf.

You are aware, aren't you, that the foundation of all human rights is the right of bodily integrity? Take that away and the rest collapses.

mrsquirrel · 04-07-2009, 02:31 PM

All we need to do is convince the UK government to take this approach as well.

baldrick · 04-07-2009, 02:39 PM

maybe compulsory sterilisation for all males on the planet when they reach 12 years of age.

later when they make a conscious decision to release the tadpoles they can go and have it reversed.

Rural Surin · 04-07-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plorf

It's a myth that Africa can't sustain and feed its population. That might be true for India, especially as the rising wealth of the middle class causes a change in their diet, but Africa simply is misgoverned. They don't know how to farm, they lack the money to invest and the massive dislocation of white farmers and consequent redistribution of farm land by corrupt politicians isn't helping either.
There are a couple of African countries with very little chance of an agriculture above self-sufficiency, but in general Africa could not only feed itself but become a major agricultural exporter. But a growing population coupled with a declining agricultural industry in some countries without any birth control is of course Bono's wet dream. Food aid and charity concerts for the next decades to come.
Just like Indias population growth feeds up all its economic growth.

Which textbook did you gather this from?

Rural Surin · 04-07-2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsRobsLife

Though well received by the usual suspects, my suspiscions would run deep regarding the views of Mr. Diamond.

Oh you've read the book then have you?

[/quote]
Actually I've read the book and other volumes of Mr. Diamonds work. I'm familiar with his material, for his predictable Eurocentric spin is quite available for the masses. Jared Diamond parades himself as curious and unconventional, whereas most get caught up in the spell of social science orthodoxy when it is repeated over and again. Nothing special about Mr. Diamond and his circle. If you've bothered at all to do some investigative research, you'll find that Professor Diamond has far more naysayers and critique thrown his way than praise - certainly amongst his contemporaries and peers, less the easily hynotised masses. Far be it for me to say....but Jared Diamond mirrors the orthodoxy that is present throughout Eurocentic bias of Anthropological models. He comes from the same historical background that simply isn't curious. Nor would he ever explore anything that doesn't promote the ideal of European influence and contribution - which largely, is a myth. Before taking on heroes, one must examine all roads.

Lily · 04-07-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr R Sole

There are degrees of mental disability..suely that's reognised...but if your a full blown cabbage..then chances are that you have no idea that shagging 'Umbeki' will result in a child??? am I correct.. So I am with Rwanda on this one..sorry but I agree, they haven't got the resources that the west has to abandon their mongaloid kids on the doorstep of the state...or abort them when the have their little test..just look at Thailand for a prime example and this country is far richer..many monged kids just sit at home to die due to poor helth care..and I watch on TV with my wife...where the parents have abandoned their 'unwanted' one with family or even neigbours!!!

But isn't sterilising them, shutting the door after the horse has bolted? Handicapped people dont normally have handicapped children.
The reasons for the handicaps are many and varied and are usually a random event or a birth injury.

It is not going to stop more people being born handicapped.

Rural Surin · 04-07-2009, 07:16 PM

Handicapped. First, we need to examine what sort of handicap that is perfectly acceptable and in use today.

ItsRobsLife · 05-07-2009, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Actually I've read the book and other volumes of Mr. Diamonds work. Good I'm glad you have read it, although you obviously didn't like or agree with it.
I'm familiar with his material, for his predictable Eurocentric spin is quite available for the masses. Predictable Eurocentric spin!? That says a lot more about your own predjudice than it does about any perspective Diamond may have taken.
Jared Diamond parades himself as curious and unconventional,

Possibly, his areas of research are certainly unconventional, studying the natives of New Guinea or Australian Aboriginals and summarising that they are no less intelligent than ourselves are not the kind of findings that fit neatly with a Western centric educational view.
whereas most get caught up in the spell of social science orthodoxy when it is repeated over and again. Where do you draw the line between cynicism and ignorance?
Nothing special about Mr. Diamond and his circle. Well he's obviously more gifted than you or I, do you think Malcolm Gladwell is just all hype?
If you've bothered at all to do some investigative research, As I've said, I read many books and only suggested this book as another viewpoint to the Rwandan genocide, quite an important point too I think, surely nothing wrong with that?
you'll find that Professor Diamond has far more naysayers and critique thrown his way than praise - Certainly that is highly debatable and quite easily disproven, but tell me any author that does not have critics.
certainly amongst his contemporaries and peers, Darwin?
less the easily hynotised masses. Do you think it's a bad thing that books like Guns, Germs and Steel, The Blind Watchmaker and A Brief History Of Time have made science, philosophy and anthropology accessable for the masses?
Far be it for me to say....But
but Jared Diamond mirrors the orthodoxy that is present throughout Eurocentic bias of Anthropological models. Well I think that is where you need to look at the criticism, which you claim is overwhelming, as most of the neagative criticism comes from established academic circles, perhaps you think because his work is not academic enough in style or perhaps, as I suspect, his books have helped people think outside of the constraints of the established model.
He comes from the same historical background that simply isn't curious. I think his position is clearly diametrically opposite to this.
Nor would he ever explore anything that doesn't promote the ideal of European influence Are you sure we read the same books? The ideal of European influence?

Quote:

Collapse is divided into four parts.
Part One describes the environment of the US state of Montana, focusing on the lives of several individuals in order to put a human face on the interplay between society and the environment.

Part Two describes past societies that have collapsed. Diamond uses a "framework" when considering the collapse of a society, consisting of five "sets of factors" that may affect what happens to a society: environmental damage, climatic change, hostile neighbors, loss of trading partners, and the society's own responses to its environmental problems. The societies Diamond describes are:
The Greenland Norse (climate change, environmental damage, loss of trading partners, hostile neighbors and most unwillingness to adapt in the face of social collapse)

Easter Island (a society that collapsed entirely due to environmental damage)

The Polynesians of Pitcairn Island (environmental damage and loss of trading partners)

The Anasazi of southwestern North America (environmental damage and climate change)

The Maya of Central America (environmental damage, climate change, and hostile neighbours)

Finally, Diamond discusses three past success stories:
The tiny Pacific island of Tikopia

The agricultural success of central New Guinea

The Tokugawa-era forest management in Japan.

Part Three examines modern societies, including:
The collapse into genocide of Rwanda, caused in part by overpopulation

The failure of Haiti compared with the relative success of its neighbour on Hispaniola, the Dominican Republic

The problems facing a developing nation, China

The problems facing a First World nation, Australia

Are you American? I don't mean that in a derogotroy manner BTW but the irony must be clear.
and contribution - which largely, is a myth. A myth? I think you are stretching your credibilty beyond impartialy now.
Before taking on heroes, Did I say hero? I just suggested that he had an interestinjg point of view regarding the subject of the thread.
one must examine all roads.Patronising twat

The book may be aimed at the mainstream, but it's sources and findings are all referrenced for anyone to look further into and his conclusions clearly in realtion to the evidence and not wrapped up in post modernist hyperbole.

As I've said I think he offers a valuable and diferrent perspective, I don't claim that he is without fault or the only worthwhile source on any subject.

Rural Surin · 05-07-2009, 08:08 PM

References, documentation, and sources wrapped solely in predictable and protective orthodoxy and convention. Pathetic.

DrB0b · 06-07-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

References, documentation, and sources wrapped solely in predictable and protective orthodoxy and convention. Pathetic.

Any chance of adding some content to your illiterate whinge? Thanks.

Rural Surin · 06-07-2009, 08:35 PM

....are you stalking me, DrBob?

Rural Surin · 06-07-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

References, documentation, and sources wrapped solely in predictable and protective orthodoxy and convention. Pathetic.

Any chance of adding some content to your illiterate whinge? Thanks.

Critical thought and alternative curiosity are not of your choosing, yes? If the stimulation is repeated over and again, than surely it must represent truth and reality.

02-07-2009, 06:14 PM	#23 (permalink)
ItsRobsLife Dislocated Member Last Online: Today 04:30 PM Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: The thin ice of modern life. Posts: 1,842	^^ Hahaha oh well next time.. if their is one. I can't be bothered with arguing with Jet anymore. I've proven my point with her many times but she can't concede a point or agree to disagree, it's just a waste of keystrokes nowadays. As for Rural Surin well you know he has good days and bad but he can be quite obtuse when he wants to be. I don't claim any affinity to any politiical beliefs or religion, but some find it convenient to place labels on others, I will read anything to get a varied viewpoint and I will reserve my judgement on it's relevance until finished and wouldn't repeat it as fact unless I have been able verify it's findings with other sources, when one deliberately restricts their pool of information in line with their predudices, that person has already stopped thinking. Anyway enough of all this, the sun is shining, we've got a heatwave on the way and I've got better things to do. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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02-07-2009, 05:58 PM	#21 (permalink)
plorf Royal Barges Last Online: Today 06:21 AM Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Switzerland / Chiang Mai / BKK Posts: 956	Damn.. I wanted to red you Rob for wasting that space without bothering to argue... but greened you instead.

04-07-2009, 01:51 AM	#25 (permalink)
Jet Gorgon Jihad Barbie Last Online: Today 04:50 AM Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Near Libbies Posts: 12,470	^ That is terrific. It reminds me of Tito's Yugoslavia. As much of an a*hole as he was, Serbs and Croats lived together quite peacefully back then. Poor robski can't understand these things and can only pout that we don't give a toss about his narrow views.

04-07-2009, 12:01 PM	#28 (permalink)
crippen Thailand Expat Last Online: Today 01:49 PM Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Korat Posts: 1,461	Sterilising the disabled now but the next step,exterminateing is only a little way off???

04-07-2009, 02:31 PM	#30 (permalink)
mrsquirrel Jarvis fellates goats 4 $ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In a rather cold and dark place Posts: 12,159	All we need to do is convince the UK government to take this approach as well.

04-07-2009, 02:39 PM	#31 (permalink)
baldrick BkkAndrw rapes passengers Last Online: Today 05:13 PM Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lord Black Adders gutter Posts: 4,995	maybe compulsory sterilisation for all males on the planet when they reach 12 years of age. later when they make a conscious decision to release the tadpoles they can go and have it reversed.

04-07-2009, 07:16 PM	#35 (permalink)
Rural Surin rough around the edges Last Online: 17-11-2009 10:28 PM Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Portland, OR & Kwao Noi, Surin Posts: 12,843	Handicapped. First, we need to examine what sort of handicap that is perfectly acceptable and in use today.

05-07-2009, 08:08 PM	#37 (permalink)
Rural Surin rough around the edges Last Online: 17-11-2009 10:28 PM Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Portland, OR & Kwao Noi, Surin Posts: 12,843	References, documentation, and sources wrapped solely in predictable and protective orthodoxy and convention. Pathetic.

06-07-2009, 08:35 PM	#39 (permalink)
Rural Surin rough around the edges Last Online: 17-11-2009 10:28 PM Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Portland, OR & Kwao Noi, Surin Posts: 12,843	....are you stalking me, DrBob?

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