Thread: America Arizona - Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

and that they had not advised him of his rights.

Don't know why... but that really made me laugh.

The child must be evil, pure evil. Life without parole in a basement cell is the only suitable outcome.

Ah, the right to bear arms is about as stupid as the right to arm bears

Originally Posted by Chairman Mao

The child must be evil, pure evil.

A pretty crass statement Mao, I'm surprised.

I don't think an 8 year old can be labeled as this. Unless you think the Omen movies were true. Er, they weren't by the way.

It's a little 8 year old kid. There's more to the story than we've seen so far.

^ WTF has this to do with the OP? And why Happy Girls comment to LT at the bottom.

Yobs target firefighters as they battle to save baby

Thursday, August 28, 2008, 08:00


Teenage yobs tried to break into fire engines in Bristol while crews saved five children – including a four-day-old baby – from a burning house.
Firefighters arrived at the house in Charfield Road, Southmead, after an oven caught fire.
But as they evacuated mother-of-five Tamsin Vining and her children and started to fight the fire at her terrace council home, two teenagers tried to break into the appliances parked outside. The attempted theft has been condemned as "disgusting" by Miss Vining and "despicable" by a fire union official.
Miss Vining and her children needed hospital treatment for smoke inhalation after the fire, which broke out at around 7.15pm on Monday.
She and her baby son were kept overnight at Frenchay Hospital for observation after being given oxygen.


The 28-year-old is outraged that, while crews from Patchway and Southmead fire stations fought to extinguish the flames, one of their vehicles was targeted by yobs from a large gang, who tried to break into it.
Miss Vining, who works for sandwich shop chain Subway, said: "I think it's disgusting that they did that.
"If the situation was different and those firemen had needed to get equipment to save us, we could be dead.
"It makes my blood boil just thinking about it.
"I heard a fireman call for the police. He said loads of young people had been trying to break into the truck.
"There was loads of them there – I guess kids aged about five to 15-years-old.
"I'd say there was about 20 of them – some were on bikes."
She said she did not know how her oven, which she was pre-heating before doing some cooking, had caught fire as she was "meticulous" about checking it.
Miss Vining suffered smoke inhalation as she tried to deal with the fire and was still in the house when firefighters arrived.
She said: "I wasn't frightened at first but when we got into the fire engine, I was shaking."
An Avon Fire and Rescue Service spokeswoman confirmed that, during the incident, youths had attempted to break into the appliances.
Pictures of those responsible are believed to have been captured by a camera on one of the fire engines.
Police were called and are investigating the incident.
Two firefighters put out the blaze using carbon dioxide extinguishers.
Kevin Herniman , a regional official of the Fire Brigades Union, said the attempted theft was "despicable".
He said: "Unreported attacks on firefighters are on the increase. Recent figures show there are about 40 a week.
"If people try to break in, it can sometimes end in an altercation if our firemen try to stop them.
"There have been incidents in the past where thieves have tried to steal from fire engines while firefighters are doing their best to help the community.
"Unfortunately you do sometimes get these mindless vandals stealing things they're probably just going to flog on the internet."
Miss Vining's neighbour Emma Souch, 28, said: "The firemen knocked on my door and asked if I had any blankets for the baby because they didn't want her to go back inside. We get a lot of trouble round here. Kids pinching cars – things like that."
Passer-by Douglas Chinn, 58, from Henleaze, Bristol, who took photographs of the aftermath of the incident, said: "The kids who tried to break in were on bikes so they disappeared before they got caught. I don't know what they were trying to do. I can't imagine there's anything worth stealing from a fire engine."

What's his point? He's not an American. What's his interest in childhood delinquency in America? This is just some stuff from over in the UK that shows how horrible kids can be anywhere.

To whom do you refer?

Originally Posted by dirtydog

"Who would think an eight-year-old kid could kill two adults?" said St Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick on Friday.

Evil little motherfucker, thats why.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Ah, the right to bear arms is about as stupid as the right to arm bears

Why would you say a stupid thing like that, 2nd ammendment had nothing to do with it, even the cops said it was the kid,, evil little bastard.

I was being sarcastic J.

America is the only western country to sentence juveniles to life without parole...

Saw an interesting doco on it a few months back. They use a legal loophole that under 18s can only be sentenced to LWOP in extreme cases.

here's quick 2 minute google on it.

Estimates have placed the number of individuals serving life without parole sentences for crimes committed before the age of 18 approaching 2,500 — a disproportionate number being children of color. Sadly, this is a uniquely American practice. Until February of this year, Human Rights Watch found juveniles serving life without parole sentences in only one other country — Israel (which had a total of seven individuals serving such sentences). However, Israeli officials have confirmed that the seven individuals serving these life without parole sentences are now entitled to parole review, leaving the U.S., with its nearly 2,500 cases, all alone in the world.

Originally Posted by Chairman Mao

America is the only western country to sentence juveniles to life without parole...

Yes, maybe under 18, but over 17 when crime was commited and had to be a bad one.
I see nothing wrong with it, but I believe life without parole should be cvapitol as why keep them alive and support them for all them years.

Don't you think yopu knew right from wrong at 17? I damn sure did, so why keep alive a brain damaged punk, or turn them loose on the public.

I'm absolutely confident that a quick google will give hundreds of cases of 15 and 16 year olds sentenced to LWOP...

Most represented by legal aid...

In December, the United Nations took up a resolution calling for the abolition of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for children and young teenagers. The vote was 185 to 1, with the United States the lone dissenter.


there are 73 Americans serving such sentences for crimes they committed at 13 or 14.

Here's a 14 year old being sentenced to LWOP in Arizona.

That's very lovely .

This little boy is 8.

Read it again ..............8


8 fuckin years old .


Do you understand


8

8

8

Years old.

just sad for all involved.

gun shoulda been locked away.

or not owned at all.

Originally Posted by November Rain

^ And he got hold of a gun & killed 2 people.

And you blame an 8 year old. ?????

I don't know what I think. The news report is too vague.

I do find it disconcerting that the two victims were in different places - unlikely to be an accident.

Originally Posted by jandajoy

And you blame an 8 year old. ?????

Bear in mind that these two were 10 when they did what they did to a 3 year old...

Jon Venables and Robert Thompson were truanting from school on 12 February 1993. They were in their final year of primary school at Walton St Mary Church of England Primary School.[3]
That day, in the New Strand Shopping Centre, Bootle, they attempted to walk off with a young child. They had succeeded in luring a two-year-old boy from his mother, and were taking him out of the shopping centre when she noticed him missing, ran outside, and called him back. For this, the boys were charged with attempted abduction; the charge was dropped when the jury failed to reach a verdict.

CCTV footage of James Bulger being kidnapped by Venables and Thompson (above Bulger), recorded on shopping centre CCTV


That afternoon, James Bulger (often mentioned as "Jamie Bulger" in press reports, he was never called Jamie" by his family), from nearby Kirkby, went with his mother Denise to a nearby shopping centre. While there, Mrs Bulger realised her son had disappeared. The two boys had taken him by the hand and led him out of the precinct. This moment was captured on a CCTV camera at 15:39.
The boys took Bulger on a 2½ mile (4 km) walk. They led him to a canal, where he sustained injuries to his head and face, after apparently being dropped to the ground. Later, a witness reported seeing Bulger being kicked in the ribs by one of the boys, to prod him along.
During the walk, the boys were seen by 38 people.[citation needed] Some reported there was bruising on Bulger's face, while others reported that he was laughing, the boys seemingly alternating between hurting and distracting him. A few members challenged the older boys, but they claimed they were looking after their younger brother, or that he was lost and they were taking him to the police station. They led Bulger to a railway line near the disused Walton & Anfield railway station on Walton Lane.
From facts at trial, at this location one of the boys threw blue modelling paint on Bulger's face. They kicked him and hit him with bricks, stones and a 22 lb (10 kg) iron bar. They then placed batteries in his mouth . False reports claiming the batteries were pushed up his anus were spread by a chain letter[4]. The letter also claimed that Bulger's fingers were cut off using scissors; this is also untrue. James suffered skull fractures as a result of the iron bar being struck around his head; this wound is believed to have caused his death.
Before they left him, the boys laid Bulger across the railway tracks and weighted his head down with rubble, in hopes that a train would hit him and make his death appear an accident. Two days later, on 14 February, Bulger was discovered; a forensic pathologist testified that he had died before his body was run over by a train.
As the circumstances surrounding the death became clear, tabloid newspapers compared the killers with Myra Hindley and Ian Brady who had committed the Moors Murders during the 1960s. They denounced the people who had seen Bulger but not realised the trouble he was in as the "Liverpool 38" (see Kitty Genovese, bystander effect). The railway embankment upon which his body had been discovered was flooded with hundreds of bunches of flowers: one of these floral tributes, a single rose, was laid by Thompson. Within days, he and Venables were arrested, after an investigation led by Detective Superintendent Albert Kirby of the Merseyside Police.
Forensics tests confirmed that both boys had the same blue paint on their clothing as on Bulger's body. Both had blood on their shoes; blood on Thompson's shoe was matched to Bulger through DNA tests.
The boys were charged with Bulger's murder on 22 February 1993. They were the youngest people charged with murder in England and Wales during the 20th century.


Murder of James Bulger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There's a big difference between 8 and 10.

^ What difference? At most 2-nearly 3 years. At the least, just over a year.

As I said, I don't know what to think about this one. I don't think it's an accident due to where the bodies were found, but maybe he was being abused or something equally abhorrent.

Whatever was the cause or reasons, he killed 2 people. There are 2 people that will never see another day. Whether he was 8 or 80, I think that's a serious matter.

Sorry, 8 year olds don't shoot people, kill people of their own volition. There's a context and a reason. A programming or a catalyst that causes the action.

You can not condemn an 8 year old.

You must condemn the effects, situation, context, history - all 3 years of it - circumstances and relationships that created the situation.

The 8 year old didn't create any of the above.

He's 8 for foks sake.

Originally Posted by November Rain

What difference? At most 2-nearly 3 years. At the least, just over a year.

Child Psych. 101. The cognitive period.

Kicks in around 6 ish to 8 ish. The time when a child begins to relate to others rather than itself. It's all pretty debatable but the general consensus is that children move from being almost totally self centered to an awareness of others during this period.

see this;

Educational Psychology Interactive: Cognitive Development

I repeat - I don't know what I think, the report is too vague.

Originally Posted by jandajoy

You must condemn the effects, situation, context, history - all 3 years of it

What 3 years? Where is that mentioned in the OP? Or are you talking about my comparison with Venables & Thompson? We don't know if there was 1, 2 or 3 years difference in age.

Originally Posted by jandajoy

You can not condemn an 8 year old.

I'm not condemning anyone. I'm saying I don't know what happened.

Where we differ is, I think 8 year olds could commit murder (maybe without realising what they had done or under extreme duress) & you don't. I'm not saying this 8 year old did.

Could your little bloke kill some one?