Thread: Airline News

  1. #2726
    Thailand Expat klong toey's Avatar
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    Thai might give up one of their LHR slots if they do decide to fly up North not sure they will find much demand though unless they keep prices low. Emirates and other airlines service that route pretty well with a short layover.

  2. #2727
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    is the expensive oztralian still in charge or has he been turfed ?

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    Southwest Passenger Kicked Off Flight for Making Vodka Joke

    A Southwest Airlines passenger was removed from a flight at Sacramento International Airport last week after jokingly asking a flight attendant if the water being handed out was vodka.

    According to KTXL, the May 8 flight from Sacramento, California to Austin, Texas by way of Los Angeles had been delayed for several hours because of a maintenance light and the subsequent need to refuel when flight attendants began to pass out water to passengers.

    "He said something [like], 'They should be passing out vodka because we’ve been waiting so long,'" passenger Peter Uzelac told KTXL, referring to the unidentified man's witty remark.

    Uzelac said the flight attendant, who he described as young, was not amused.

    "She came by and was like, 'I don’t think that and I didn’t like your joke.' Then my wife tried to butt-in there and say, 'Look it, we’ve been on this plane for hours.' And she says, 'Well, so have I, so get used to it,'" added Uzelac. "Then all of a sudden, I see her on the telephone up in front."

    Uzelac said fellow passengers came to the man's defense after the plane turned back to the gate and several Sacramento County sheriff's deputies came on board to escort him off.

    "And people started yelling then. In fact, people stood up. I stood up. People were saying this man didn’t do anything," he told KTXL.

    The man wasn't charged with any crime but the incident prompted Uzelac to file a complaint with Southwest against the flight attendant. "If they have this in their records, you know, maybe it will prevent this from happening again," he said.

    "I have been flying for decades and I’ve never ever seen anything like this."

    Southwest stopped short of apologizing in a statement but said it would share the report with its customer relations team.

    "We regret any less-than-positive experience a customer has onboard our aircraft. We welcome over 100 million customers each year and we aim to maintain the comfort of all while '

    delivering Southwest hospitality. We will share this report with our Customer Relations Team," the airline said.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...oke/ar-AABlHLp

  4. #2729
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    ^Best to keep ones head down and make way to all "uniformed citizens", re anything about a certain ultra sensitive country.

  5. #2730
    Excommunicated baldrick's Avatar
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    ^ if he had been in business class he would have gotten vodka

  6. #2731
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    ^ if he had been in business class he would have gotten vodka
    It sickens me when they board the great unwashed at the front door, and you are then exposed to a succession of slovenly dressed soap dodgers glaring at you while you sip your first champagne of the morning.

    They really should just board them at the back.

  7. #2732
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    They really should just board them at the back
    if their dads had boarded their mums at the back there would be a lot more space on the plane

  8. #2733
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    So despite it being public knowledge that Boeing and the FAA certified a death trap and kept vital information from airlines and pilots, the head of the Fucking Awful Administration decided to blame foreign pilots for the crashes.

    He also suggested throughout the hearing that the inexperience and actions by the flight crews in both accidents might have contributed to the crashes.


    “They never controlled the airspeeds,” he said.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/15/u...-congress.html
    If any foreign airline was in a quandary about choosing Boeing or Airbus, I think that might assist in their decision.

    There's a WP article that elaborates on his insults, but I'm not a subscriber so I can't post it.

  9. #2734
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    ^ Not letting Boeing off the hook for a bad frigging of the rigging, I think there was an element of poor airmanship that contributed to both accidents. How much of a contribution remains to be seen.

  10. #2735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    ^ Not letting Boeing off the hook for a bad frigging of the rigging, I think there was an element of poor airmanship that contributed to both accidents. How much of a contribution remains to be seen.
    ... which is an attempt at letting Boeing off the hook.

    They made an unsafe plane and sneaked it past a weak regulator, end of.

    Frankly they should be fined out of existence.

  11. #2736
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    ^ I don't subscribe to the single source, single blame culture. I think both accidents were avoidable and the second more so, following the additional procedures provided by Boeing. Contributory factors are always of benefit when considering accidents and preventing future ones.

    I recall, back in the early 90's, chatting with a Delta Airlines 737 chief line pilot in Atlanta about the challenges of old school captains who have excellent airmanship having to compete against the up and coming talent of "button pushers". He used to fail all the automatics and make them fly the aircraft for at least one of their 4 hour slots just to drill the basics and sort the men from the boys. That type of training is rare with many of the budget airlines of today. At the time I was the developer of the controls for level-d sims on 737-3,4,5 series and knew the primary controls and stab trim inside out.

    Someone who has a stick-shaker who then removes his high lift devices (flaps up) and then engages autopilot, without understanding why the stick shaker has happened, should lose his captaincy and type rating.

    That does not mean I think Boeing are innocent. They screwed up big time and were ultimately responsible for the accidents. However, it's time crews spent more time training, like they used to. Bean counters have reduced that training to unsafe limits imho and this is also a contributory factor.
    Last edited by Troy; 18-05-2019 at 01:17 AM.

  12. #2737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    ^ I don't subscribe to the single source, single blame culture. I think both accidents were avoidable and the second more so, following the additional procedures provided by Boeing. Contributory factors are always of benefit when considering accidents and preventing future ones.

    I recall, back in the early 90's, chatting with a Delta Airlines 737 chief line pilot in Atlanta about the challenges of old school captains who have excellent airmanship having to compete against the up and coming talent of "button pushers". He used to fail all the automatics and make them fly the aircraft for at least one of their 4 hour slots just to drill the basics and sort the men from the boys. That type of training is rare with many of the budget airlines of today. At the time I was the developer of the controls for level-d sims on 737-3,4,5 series and knew the primary controls and stab trim inside out.

    Someone who has a stick-shaker who then removes his high lift devices (flaps up) and then engages autopilot, without understanding why the stick shaker has happened, should lose his captaincy and type rating.

    That does not mean I think Boeing are innocent. They screwed up big time and were ultimately responsible for the accidents. However, it's time crews spent more time training, like they used to. Bean counters have reduced that training to unsafe limits imho and this is also a contributory factor.
    We have a phrase you might be familiar with called RTFM.

    Well in this case, it wasn't in the fucking manual.

    Boeing are killers, and the FAA are accomplices.

  13. #2738
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    ^An industry which keeps some alive, has been and will always be, above the law due to it's essential " state security status".

    As you have posted. Fear of losing to a foreign competitor influenced the Boeing, FAA and government decision makers. A nod and a wink allowed the delivery of a now proven, ballistic missile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    I think there was an element of poor airmanship that contributed to both accidents.
    The pilots had thousands of hours on 737s. Unfortunately they were not made aware or received any training on the new "improved" 737 MAX deadly systems. "They don't need no stinking, expensive and time consuming training" was in the reasons to buy column 1 A.

    If you as a car driver jumped into a shiny new car where the go pedal and stop pedal swapped actions, intermittently, when approaching a red light you may have similar problems. Along with 300 screaming passengers behind you just before you hit the petrol tanker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    However, it's time crews spent more time training, like they used to.
    I believe an app was made available. No mandatory pass mark required prior to taking command when loaded with 250 sheep and 12 rams in 1st.

    Although allegedly the app "help" button linked to to an AI, 24/7 cloud server, requiring subscription, which was planned to be operational in 2021 and included a fully detailed and illustrated 200 page pdf file, will become available in 4th Q, 2020.
    Questions regarding in-flight emergency usage were dismissed, as the pilots, "Don't need to know the "safety feature" exists.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  14. #2739
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Unfortunately they were not made aware
    you mean the lion air crash was not big enough to get their attention ?

    there can be a fair amount f arrogance in these taxi drivers who might well have said - we don't need no stinkin training on a 737

  15. #2740
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    Wonder how long it will be before insurance companies want to know what plane your flying in.

  16. #2741
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    there can be a fair amount f arrogance in these taxi drivers who might well have said - we don't need no stinkin training on a 737
    It is their employer who should make sure they got the needed training but in this case both Boing and FAA said that it wasn't needed, basically said that the 737MAX is the same as the old 737.

  17. #2742
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    ^ from my pilot mate, obviously flies Boeing

    Airline News-xbhkgkf-jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Airline News-xbhkgkf-jpg  

  18. #2743
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    ^ handshaking and cock touching - very apt

    when you shake a mans hand you are touching the same hand he uses to hold his cock

    so basically you are touching his cock

  19. #2744
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    you mean the lion air crash was not big enough to get their attention ?

    there can be a fair amount f arrogance in these taxi drivers who might well have said - we don't need no stinkin training on a 737
    They were made aware through service bulletin tbc-19 following the lion air incident. Whether this was made available to all line pilots, I don't know.

    Comparing this fault to pedal swap in a car is ludicrous.

  20. #2745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    They were made aware through service bulletin tbc-19 following the lion air incident. Whether this was made available to all line pilots, I don't know.

    Comparing this fault to pedal swap in a car is ludicrous.
    But it seems the Ethiopian Air pilots followed the correct procedure and disabled the electric trim control, but by then the plane was in such a mess because of MCAS that they were unable to manually correct the dive, and in desperation turned it back on.

    HoHo is correct in that Boeing considered a few minutes on a fucking iPad to be sufficient training.

    The actual problem is that the fucking thing shouldn't even have been turned on in the first place, it was designed for unsafe conditions and they were on a routine flight with no problems.

    I hope Boeing take it right up the arse in the courts, and I hope them and FAA people do hard labour.

  21. #2746
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    It sickens me when they board the great unwashed at the front door, and you are then exposed to a succession of slovenly dressed soap dodgers glaring at you while you sip your first champagne of the morning.

    They really should just board them at the back.
    I'd rather sit at the back. Have you ever heard of a plane backing into a mountain? LOL

  22. #2747
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    I'd rather sit at the back. Have you ever heard of a plane backing into a mountain? LOL
    I've already used Chubby Brown's joke, and properly credited it rather than attempting to pass it off as my own.

  23. #2748
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    I've already used Chubby Brown's joke, and properly credited it rather than attempting to pass it off as my own.
    You are clearly a better man than me.
    Who the heck is Chubby Brown ? and how chubby is he?

  24. #2749
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    But it seems the Ethiopian Air pilots followed the correct procedure and disabled the electric trim control, but by then the plane was in such a mess because of MCAS that they were unable to manually correct the dive, and in desperation turned it back on.

    HoHo is correct in that Boeing considered a few minutes on a fucking iPad to be sufficient training.

    The actual problem is that the fucking thing shouldn't even have been turned on in the first place, it was designed for unsafe conditions and they were on a routine flight with no problems.

    I hope Boeing take it right up the arse in the courts, and I hope them and FAA people do hard labour.
    I think you may have lost the plot on the Ethiopian accident. They had a stall warning via stick-shaker shortly after take-off. The Ethiopian AIB confirmed this in their prelim report. The correct procedure was to check configuration, power and lack of stall, finding why the stall warning occurred ( IAS disagree) and carrying out that procedure. An IAS disagree is a nasty problem that has led to crashes in the past if it isn't spotted. This has to be a contributory factor. Training for this is carried out in a sim not on an ipad.

    MCAS is nasty and contributed to both accidents but was not the only factor. One thing I did hate was all the warnings going off at once though. It makes it hard to think straight and makes you learn where the CBs are.

  25. #2750
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    ^An industry which keeps some alive, has been and will always be, above the law due to it's essential " state security status".

    As you have posted. Fear of losing to a foreign competitor influenced the Boeing, FAA and government decision makers. A nod and a wink allowed the delivery of a now proven, ballistic missile.



    The pilots had thousands of hours on 737s. Unfortunately they were not made aware or received any training on the new "improved" 737 MAX deadly systems. "They don't need no stinking, expensive and time consuming training" was in the reasons to buy column 1 A.

    If you as a car driver jumped into a shiny new car where the go pedal and stop pedal swapped actions, intermittently, when approaching a red light you may have similar problems. Along with 300 screaming passengers behind you just before you hit the petrol tanker.



    I believe an app was made available. No mandatory pass mark required prior to taking command when loaded with 250 sheep and 12 rams in 1st.

    Although allegedly the app "help" button linked to to an AI, 24/7 cloud server, requiring subscription, which was planned to be operational in 2021 and included a fully detailed and illustrated 200 page pdf file, will become available in 4th Q, 2020.
    Questions regarding in-flight emergency usage were dismissed, as the pilots, "Don't need to know the "safety feature" exists.
    The captain had 1417 hours on the 737 and 103 on the max. The FO had 207 hours on 737 and 53 on max. That is not the thousands of hours experience you are giving them credit for.

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