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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by foobar View Post
    Yes ...you're so right once again Harry. I bow to your unrivalled objectivity in all Russian/Chinese geopolitical matters.

    NATO would never ever threaten Russia's borders. NATO are a force for good and care very deeply for their Ukrainian cousins while Russia are just being aggressive, expansionist, downright undemocratic and unfreedomy right?
    Have you ever wondered for even a glimmer of a nanosecond why countries in Europe want to be members of NATO?

    Do you know what Article 5 does?

    Do you think Putin would have invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea if it had been a NATO member?

  2. #27
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    Russian X35 anti-ship missiles are apparently on their way to Crimea, and Russia will deploy S400 missile defence systems there soon, by the end of the year apparently.


    https://www.rt.com/russia/445015-rus...issiles-kerch/
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-uk...-idUKKCN1NX0KM

    signature

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Russian X35 anti-ship missiles are apparently on their way to Crimea, and Russia will deploy S400 missile defence systems there soon, by the end of the year apparently.


    https://www.rt.com/russia/445015-rus...issiles-kerch/
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-uk...-idUKKCN1NX0KM


    Nooooooooooooooooo. They simple tourist come visit Crimea beautiful seaside.

  4. #29
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    Big zoom lenses they're bringing this time.

  5. #30
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    Don't they bring a BUK like the one few years ago?

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by reddog View Post
    Putin builds a bridge over the Kerch strait to control the movement of ships to the Sea of Azov then he owns the sea,no more
    Ukraine ships allowed to go to Ukraine ports and stuff right of navigation,win win for Russia.
    You may wish to investigate the bilateral treaty and the agreed operations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    ideal opportunity for the European Army to flex their muscles...
    WTF do you think NATO has been doing for the past 5years?



    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Ukraine has NATO supporting it's right to navigate the waters
    NATO will not support shit. ameristan will, but they believe Russia will only attack Europe and not ameristan.

    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Council of Europe Secretary General Thorbjorn Jagland said free passage of the Kerch Strait was guaranteed by the 2003 treaty signed by Russia and Ukraine.
    Read the treaty and operating conditions and quote the clause, in English or Russian.

    Quote Originally Posted by reddog View Post
    it is no wonder Putin is flexing his power and does not give a stuff what West thinks.
    Russia has laws on it's side, Ukraine does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    I am puzzled, how can a martial law inside the country help to calm the conflict on the high sea?
    I have read that one of the articles of the Martial Law bill will allow for the dismissal of treaties with foreign countries. Which would allow Ukraine to possibly win more support from those peace loving countries ameristan and UK.

    From what appears to be a Ukraine official press office site.

    Parliament green-lights martial law in Ukraine: 30-day period in certain districts

    "What does martial law in Ukraine mean?

    "The law allows to:

    - Introduce labor service for the sake of defenses, elimination of natural and man-made emergencies, and socially useful work;

    - Use the capacity and labor resources of enterprises and organizations of all forms of ownership for the sake of defenses, change their mode of operation and working conditions;

    - Withdraw for temporary use the required property of ministries, central and local executive authorities, territorial communities, enterprises and citizens, including vehicles, structures, cars, machinery, equipment and other facilities related to the maintenance of transport, issuing documents of the established sample;

    - Set up protection of important facilities of the national economy of Ukraine;

    - Impose a curfew and establish a special blackout mode;

    - Establish a special mode of border crossing, restrict the freedom of movement of citizens, foreigners and stateless persons, as well as traffic;

    - Check IDs of citizens, and if necessary, inspect belongings, vehicles, luggage and cargo, office space and citizens' homes;

    - Raise the issue of banning political parties, public organizations if they threaten the sovereignty, national security of Ukraine, its independence and territorial integrity, as well as the lives of citizens;

    - Monitor the work of telecoms enterprises, printing companies, publishing houses, television and radio organizations, cultural institutions and organizations, use local radio stations, television centers and printing presses for military needs and explanatory work among the troops and the public, regulate the work of amateur receiving and transmitting radio stations, transmitting information through computer networks;

    - Seize from citizens their firearms and ammunition, cold arms, as well as from enterprises, institutions and organizations

    – training and military equipment explosives, radioactive substances and materials, potent chemicals and toxic substances;

    - Prohibit conscripts and reservists from changing their place of residence without notifying the military command;

    - Establish for individuals and legal entities the obligation to house military personnel and military units, subdivisions and institutions;

    - Establish the procedure for the use of shelters, structures and other facilities to protect the population, as well as meet the needs of defense;

    - Carry out the evacuation of the population, enterprises, institutions, organizations and material values;

    - Introduce standardized provision of the population with basic food and non-food goods, medicines;

    - Forcibly withdraw and seize property from legal entities and individuals for defense purposes.

    https://www.unian.info/politics/1035...districts.html

    I'm sure 'arry, MK, ..... will think these are all useful for the good of the local citizen.

    My advice if your in Ukraine, is to get out now.

    If you can.
    Last edited by OhOh; 28-11-2018 at 11:08 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Do you think Putin would have invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea if it had been a NATO member?
    In that case everybody would be happy, like they were happy in the case of Kosovo...

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Have you ever wondered for even a glimmer of a nanosecond why countries in Europe want to be members of NATO?
    .....is it because they see what happens to countries that insist on absolute sovereignty and refuse to have a US military base deployed within their borders

    You know countries like Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, China, Russia etc

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by foobar View Post
    .....is it because they see what happens to countries that insist on absolute sovereignty and refuse to have a US military base deployed within their borders

    You know countries like Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, China, Russia etc
    No....

    It's because they don't want Putin invading them like he did Georgia, Chechnya and Ukraine.

    None of the above (your list) were NATO actions.

    Good effort though, at least you're trying.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    I have read that one of the articles of the Martial Law bill will allow for the dismissal of treaties with foreign countries.
    And then posted a link that shows that none of the articles says that.

    Putin has violated a treaty though, I think you can safely say that one's flushed down the gary glitter.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    None of the above (your list) were NATO actions.
    Different stickers, but same military hardware, personnel and countries...therefore one in the same.

    Last edited by foobar; 28-11-2018 at 11:24 PM.

  12. #37
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    Ukraine's population in the time of Soviet collapse was 52 M, now 42. And that's including the ones who works abroad and returning with the money back home (est. 4 M, most of them in UK, Germany, Czechia).

    Wiki:
    Ukraine is a developing country and ranks 84th on the Human Development Index. As of 2018, Ukraine has the lowest personal income[18] and the second lowest GDP per capita in Europe. It also suffers from a very high poverty rate and severe corruption.[19] However, because of its extensive fertile farmlands, Ukraine is one of the world's largest grain exporters.[20][21] Ukraine also maintains the second-largest military in Europe after that of Russia.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Putin has violated a treaty though, I think you can safely say that one's flushed down the gary glitter.
    Title, Clause, Section of your treaty?

    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    And then posted a link that shows that none of the articles says that.
    Last section, see above.

    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    - Forcibly withdraw and seize property from legal entities and individuals for defense purposes.
    Item 1.

    Word: withdraw

    Definition: She had to withdraw from the ........... because she had .......

    Item 2.

    Words: legal entities

    Definition: A company or organization that has legal rights and responsibilities, for example the right to make contracts and the responsibility to paydebts

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/withdraw

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...legal+entities


    Or is your knowledge of the English Language limited to puerilities.
    Last edited by OhOh; 28-11-2018 at 11:41 PM.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    They simple tourist come visit Crimea beautiful seaside.
    Part of the tourist trail.

    The defensive systems have been in sunny Crimea for years. Just along the coast.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by foobar View Post
    Different stickers, but same military hardware, personnel and countries...therefore one in the same.


    The Iraqi government asked NATO to come in and train their soldiers. In 2004. Probably because, you know, NATO are quite good at that military shit.

    and no, you can't go inventing imaginary wars.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    The Iraqi government asked NATO to come in and train their soldiers. In 2004.
    Right ...so NATO were "invited" by the puppet Iraq government who were installed by the US shortly after they turned Iraq into a car park?

    You might just qualify as the most gullible person on the internet Harry.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Title, Clause, Section of your treaty?
    I would love to share it with you. Unfortunately it seems Vladimir has not only decided to violate it but remove it from the Kremlin website altogether.


    http://archive.kremlin.ru/text/docs/2003/01/30632.shtml

    "Ошибка 404"



  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by foobar View Post
    Right ...so NATO were "invited" by the puppet Iraq government who were installed by the US shortly after they turned Iraq into a car park?

    You might just qualify as the most gullible person on the internet Harry.

    Whether or not you like the Iraqi Interim government it was nonetheless slightly more inclusive than the "friends and family" alternative that preceded it.

    The point being that NATO were not part of the invasion no matter how much you're peeing your pants trying to pretend that they were.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    I would love to share it with you. Unfortunately it seems Vladimir has not only decided to violate it but remove it from the Kremlin website altogether.


    http://archive.kremlin.ru/text/docs/2003/01/30632.shtml

    "Ошибка 404"
    No evidence to support any of what you "search for whatever 30632 is or was. As usual straw dogs, all hat and no cattle, sad.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1. Try a different search engine.


    2. Try this link, seems to work last week, this week, today:

    ??????? ????? ?????????? ?????????? ?[at]???????? ?[at]?????????????? ?[at]????????????? ????????? ???? ?[at]??????????? ??????? ? ????????? ??????

    In Russian, I am presuming there would be a Ukraine copy, hopefully identical.

    Here is a machine translation into English:

    "Treaty between the Russian Federation and Ukraine on cooperation in the use of the Azov Sea and the Kerch Strait
    December 24, 2003



    The Russian Federation and Ukraine, hereinafter referred to as the Parties, guided by the relations of friendship and cooperation between the peoples of Russia and Ukraine, historically fraternal bonds between them;

    guided by the provisions of the Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Partnership between the Russian Federation and Ukraine of May 31, 1997, as well as the Treaty between the Russian Federation and Ukraine on the Russian-Ukrainian state border of January 28, 2003;

    noting the importance of the Sea of ​​Azov and the Kerch Strait for the economic development of Russia and Ukraine;

    Convinced that all issues relating to the Sea of ​​Azov and the Kerch Strait should be resolved only by peaceful means together or with the consent of Russia and Ukraine;

    based on the need to preserve the Azov-Kerch water area as an integral economic and natural complex used in the interests of Russia and Ukraine:

    agreed on the following:

    Article 1

    The Sea of ​​Azov and the Kerch Strait are historically the inland waters of the Russian Federation and Ukraine.

    The Sea of ​​Azov is delimited by the state border line in accordance with the agreement between the Parties.

    Settlement of issues relating to the water area of ​​the Kerch Strait, is carried out by agreement between the Parties.

    Article 2

    1. Commercial vessels and warships, as well as other state vessels flying the flag of the Russian Federation or Ukraine, operated for non-commercial purposes, enjoy freedom of navigation in the Sea of ​​Azov and the Kerch Strait.

    2. Trade vessels under the flags of third countries may enter the Sea of ​​Azov and pass through the Kerch Strait if they are sent to or returned from the Russian or Ukrainian port.

    3. Warships and other state vessels of third countries, operated for non-commercial purposes, may enter the Sea of ​​Azov and pass through the Kerch Strait if they are sent on a visit or business call to the port of one of the Parties at its invitation with permission agreed with the other the side.

    Article 3

    Russian-Ukrainian cooperation, including joint activities in the field of shipping, including its regulation and navigation and hydrographic support, fisheries, protection of the marine environment, environmental safety, as well as search and rescue in the Sea of ​​Azov and the Kerch Strait, are provided as the implementation of existing agreements and the conclusion, in appropriate cases, of new arrangements.

    Article 4

    Disputes between the Parties relating to the interpretation and application of this Agreement shall be resolved through consultation and negotiation, as well as other peaceful means, at the option of the Parties.

    Article 5

    This Treaty is subject to ratification and shall enter into force on the date of the exchange of instruments of ratification of the Parties.

    Changes and additions to this Agreement are drawn up in separate protocols, which enter into force in accordance with the procedure described in paragraph 1 of this Article.

    Done in Kerch on December 24, 2003, in duplicate, each in Russian and Ukrainian, both texts being equally authentic."

    There will of course be additions/new arrangements as specified in article 3 above. Especially since the completion of the bridge across the straight, from Russian mainland to the Crimea island province of Russia.

    Probably under the general heading of "Russian National Security", Health and safety, Protection of Human Rights/Environment/Fish etc.

    As many countries seem to do these days.

    I hope it helps you.

    Last edited by OhOh; 29-11-2018 at 07:44 PM.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by foobar View Post
    Right ...so NATO were "invited" by the puppet Iraq government who were installed by the US shortly after they turned Iraq into a car park?

    You might just qualify as the most gullible person on the internet Harry.
    he is, he is a fooking muppet

  21. #46
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    As a matter of fact, the title of the OP reads like a joke: "NATO calls calm..." when it is clear that the conflict was originally planned by NATO's intention to hold military games in Sea of Azov - as known from before (I mentioned that few threads above):
    https://uawire.org/lavrov-russia-wil...he-sea-of-azov

    The Ukraine would hardly undertake any dangerous action without advice of a big Brother, won't they?

  22. #47
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    Anytime you see NATO calling for calm it usually means they've pushed one of their pawns too far into the danger zone and people are about to die.

  23. #48
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    Or the pawns acted without prior authorisation from the You Ess of Ay.

  24. #49
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    It's very simple: NATO's whole raison d'etre is to protect its members from aggression.

    Putin has invaded three countries since he's been in power, which is why everyone else is either queuing up to join or, if members already, queuing up to get some extra protection in.

    If fucknuts stayed within his borders, this would not be the case.

  25. #50
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    That's no way to talk about Trump.

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