Thread: Turkey says journalist was murdered in Saudi consulate

Bad people with nothing Amerika wants = bad people
Bad people with something Amerika wants = people who have done wrong but have expressed remorse or buck-passing and are therefore still good ol' boys.

Game over for the new prince ?

looks like the CIA owes a few favors to the old Saudi guards

Jamal Khashoggi: CIA 'blames Saudi prince for murder'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-46245167

Sources close to the agency said it had assessed the evidence in detail.

It is understood there is no "smoking gun" but US officials think such an operation would need the prince's approval.

Saudi Arabia has called the claim false and insisted that the crown prince knew nothing of plans for the killing.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

The CIA's conclusion vs Jarred's and Don Snr's love of the Prince.

that's the rub, isn't it?

trump needs KSA to offset the impact of the absurd iran sanctions on oil......and kushner needs them for his israel/palestine 'plan'.

will be interesting to see what happens in the senate...some republicans have been making noise about sanctions.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

It will be interesting to see Trump's reaction.

Trump has already forgotten anything ever happened. If reminded, I think there will be some thoughts and prayers for the family.

Remind me again - who was on the first flights after 9/11 ?
People with a ‘special relationship’ to the USA USA USA USA USA ?

the national security council official responsible for american policy toward KSA resigned last night....

The exact circumstances of her departure are murky, and it is unclear whether her advocacy for a hawkish response to the killing angered some in the White House. When she returned to Washington, according to the two people, she had a dispute with her bosses at the National Security Council, where she had served as the director for the Persian Gulf region.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/17/u...di-arabia.html

Missed this from 3 days ago.

Saudi Arabia now admits Khashoggi was dismembered.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.80a28487531b


Saudi Arabia’s public prosecutor released the findings of a long-awaited investigation of the death of journalist Jamal Khashoggi on Thursday, saying that a team of Saudi agents dispatched to Istanbul with orders to bring him home alive had instead killed the journalist and dismembered his body.

Saudi Arabia’s crown prince had no knowledge of the operation, Shaalan al-Shaalan, a spokesman for the prosecutor, said at a news conference in Riyadh, the Saudi capital.

He said that 11 suspects have been indicted and that authorities are seeking the death penalty for five of them. None of the suspects were named. The order to kill Khashoggi, who had criticized the Saudi monarchy over the past year, came from one of the leaders of the Saudi team in Istanbul, Shaalan said.

Prosecutor Saud al-Mojeb’s conclusion — that the killing was authorized by relatively low-level officials who disobeyed orders and acted on the fly — contradicted assertions by Turkish investigators, who have said it was a meticulously planned operation, with elaborate preparations to cover up the crime that included scouting locations where Khashoggi’s body could be disposed of in secret.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the slaying was premeditated and the orders came from “the highest levels of the Saudi government,” without specifying exactly who was responsible.

On Thursday, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said that some of the latest Saudi statements about the killing were not “satisfactory.”

“This is not something that happens instantaneously,” he said. “People and tools were brought to dismember the body.”

“The investigation concluded that the crime was carried out after a physical altercation with the victim where he was forcibly restrained and injected with a large amount of a drug resulting in an overdose that led to his death, may Allah bless his soul,” the statement said.

Khashoggi’s body was dismembered and then taken by one of the Saudi agents to the “local collaborator,” according to the prosecutor, who said a sketch of the collaborator has been produced.

Turkish officials have complained repeatedly about Saudi Arabia’s refusal to identify the collaborator and said they suspect that such a person does not exist. They have also demanded that the Saudis reveal the whereabouts of Khashoggi’s remains.

Turkey’s prosecutor said late last month that Khashoggi was strangled or suffocated as soon as he entered the consulate, in line with “premeditated plans.”

As it was a premeditated murder, an 'altercation' if there was one is irrelevant. Any 'drug overdose' would have been either premeditated or a standby measure against resistance if he declined the invite to die gracefully. Not sure about the Allah bit, sounds like a sneaky way of saying see we're the good guys now can we please join Europe, and forget the pieces if they still exist the Saudis won't be handing them over.

Bullsquirts about low level officials first making such a decision, and then following through with meticulous planning of every step from prep to execution and disposal, without the nod from high. But having confessed it was a clusterfcuk which even the most fervent Saudi royalist knows by now, next is to present v86.16.2 with hand on heart as before, follow through by convicting and summary execution of a few death row inmates from some rural town before they reveal where the meat parcels are, and hope it's plausible enough for western mindsets desperately looking for a less uncomfortable way out.

...all the Saudis have to do is wait for headlines to disappear...and let the defense companies/banks take care of the PR...as time goes by, even Erdogan will pull in his horns...money is quite a healer...

I don't think western mindsets [sic] are looking for a less uncomfortable way out. It's pretty clear what happened and who sanctioned it, and pretty clear that the US, UK and others are not going to labour the point because of $$$.

Originally Posted by Neverna

He said that 11 suspects have been indicted and that authorities are seeking the death penalty for five of them.

I wonder how many members of the Saudi security team, from the top to the bottom, are now considering other careers. Being thrown under the bus by your leader does not incite much loyalty.

Originally Posted by tomcat

...au contraire: they're safely stowed away from any foreign press bus: I predict there'll be a show trial (held in secret, of course) to save the Prince's blood-spattered public image (in the West, anyway) while all involved in the Khashoggi murder will be comfortably retired away from the public eye: no foreign or local press interviews or public presence of any kind: they will all be safe and financially secure within the bowels of the Kingdom...the local "press" will, of course, insist that all have been severely punished and jailed in accordance with Shariah law...thus endeth the lesson amid the rush for Saudi cash...

Yes, thta's a possibility. The fact that the 12th member of the team is already dead under mysterious circumstances makes me a bit leery. Keep in mind, at least one member of the team has direct knowledge of from where the order came. He has to be dead man walking.

...a) there's no verifiable evidence that the 12th member actually died and b) any Saudi with direct knowledge will know what to do under the circumstances: shut up and spend his generous retirement bonuses lavishly...and locally...

Originally Posted by tomcat

any Saudi with direct knowledge will know what to do under the circumstances: shut up and spend his generous retirement bonuses lavishly...and locally...

You're possibly underestimating the ruthlessness and high need of whoever made the order. Generous of you, but perhaps naive.

...possibly, but those who will be needed for future operations of such nature will hesitate if any harm comes to those on this operation...a more likely outcome is that the murderous team members will be quietly regarded as heroes for satisfying the wishes of their Prince...what other way of thinking would a Saudi indoctrinated from birth in tribal ways and loyalty to his Emir have? Utterly saturated by a devotion to Islam that encourages such feeling and lacking exposure to any ethical teaching other than one that is locally drilled into him, your average Saudi will attempt to beat the current how-high mark when the Prince says jump...not naivete: an opinion based on years in the dunes...

Originally Posted by tomcat

your average Saudi will attempt to beat the current how-high mark when the Prince says jump...not naivete: an opinion based on years in the dunes...

All accepted by me, including your experience. But I wonder if you have taken into account how selfishly ruthless the Prince can be? It has become an international incident, so the stakes on the Prince's reputation are higher than with normal domestic issues.

I'll leave it at that. I take your experience and opinion and certainly agree it's a possibility, but nonetheless I'll continue to think the other scenario is a bit more likely.

Originally Posted by tomcat

...possibly, but those who will be needed for future operations of such nature will hesitate if any harm comes to those on this operation...a more likely outcome is that the murderous team members will be quietly regarded as heroes for satisfying the wishes of their Prince...what other way of thinking would a Saudi indoctrinated from birth in tribal ways and loyalty to his Emir have?...

I don't think anyone lower than the highest would 'hesitate' to execute a command, or request. They hold those positions precisely because of their commitment, generally proven, which are reinforced by the occasional disappearance of those falling short of expectations. The rest as you say has to do with a generous retirement, while the tribal issues are also relevant.

I am reading the tickers:

"Rand Paul says US should stop the arms supplies".
That's telling to terrorists (former anarchists) that a spectacular assassination is more outrageous for "international community" than a boring daily bombarding of population of thousands.

"Trump says US will determine within 2 days, no need to hear the terrible tapes".
OK, lets await the "determining".

However, important are the jobs... (Ploughshares into swords)

...^irrelevant...anything on RT?...

Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman started a tour of Arab countries, his first foreign trip since last month’s murder of columnist Jamal Khashoggi triggered an international outcry and roiled the kingdom’s ties with Western powers.

The prince is expected to visit a number of countries, according to the official Saudi Press Agency, in a trip that is probably designed to show he is not isolated in the region despite the backlash over Khashoggi’s death. It follows recent public tours at home with his father, King Salman, a signal he also remains secure within Saudi.

Prince Mohammed arrived in the neighboring United Arab Emirates on Thursday, where he was met by Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Zayed, one of his staunchest allies in the region.

“Delighted to welcome our state guest, brother Mohammed Bin Salman,” Sheikh Mohammed said on Twitter, accompanied by pictures of the two at an airport. “We’re proud of our deep rooted ties.”

The prince also plans to attend the Group of 20 summit in Argentina later this month, according to the Saudi-owned Al Arabiya television. President Donald Trump said he’d meet Prince Mohammed at the event, which will also be attended by Turkish President Recep Erdogan.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...hoggi-s-murder

CIA has recording of MBS saying ‘silence Jamal Khashoggi’: report

The CIA has a recording of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman giving instructions to “silence Jamal Khashoggi as soon as possible” — the strongest proof yet that the ruling royal [at]orchestrated the journalist’s murder, a Turkish newspaper reported Thursday.

​The “smoking gun” phone call from the prince to his brother, Khaled bin Salman, Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to the United States, was captured on a CIA wiretap, the Hürriyet Daily News reported.

The newspaper said CIA Director Gina Haspel, who traveled to Ankara as part of the investigation into Khashoggi’s murder at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul on Oct. 2, signaled to Turkish officials that the agency has a recording of the call.

https://nypost.com/2018/11/22/cia-ha...shoggi-report/

It's always good to keep a close watch on our best friends and allies who give us the wonderful contracts.

Wondering whether such close watch is kept also on the others who are not our best friends and allies?
(who needs wikileaks?)