Thread: Catalonia referendum: Spanish police target Catalan government

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Don't you know what ETA is then Begbie?

The Spanish equivalent of all those pikey "Scots".

Go and read up on ETA before you come on here slavering pish and making a James Hunt of yourself.

Originally Posted by Scottish Gary

Catalonia is the wealthiest part of Spain. There is no way the fascists in Madrid will let it go.

And Catalonians are not going to roll over either. A potential powder keg if not resolved with some sort of political compromise from Madrid.

Originally Posted by Scottish Gary

Catalonia is the wealthiest part of Spain. There is no way the fascists in Madrid will let it go.

Such a contrast to Scotland, where it's an economic liability ruled by fascists desperate to tear it off and pin all their hopes Venezuela-style on oil, and drive the nation into a Greek tragedy-styled ajockalypse.

Absolutely - Stoneybridge Town Council (Olympic Bid) - Video Dailymotion

Originally Posted by Norton

And Catalonians are not going to roll over either. A potential powder keg if not resolved with some sort of political compromise from Madrid.

I hope they dont roll over the way too many Scots did when we had our independence referendum. We were like the blind leading the blind going into ours and the animosity towards the central government in London wasn't there but the Catalans seem more determined and they have the momentum to see this through. Also the hatred they seem to have towards Madrid will spur them on. Dont forget they were still getting brutally oppressed in the 70s.

Originally Posted by Scottish Gary

I hope they dont roll over the way too many Scots did when we had our independence referendum.

They didn't "roll over", they got out and outvoted you because they want to be British AND Scottish.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

Such a contrast to Scotland, where it's an economic liability ruled by fascists desperate to tear it off and pin all their hopes Venezuela-style on oil, and drive the nation into a Greek tragedy-styled ajockalypse.

Absolutely - Stoneybridge Town Council (Olympic Bid) - Video Dailymotion

We actually pin our hopes on tourism, technology and whisky exports. Any money we make from the oil is just a bonus.

If Catalonia goes, the Basques may feel encouraged to seek independence, then the folks in Andalucia: Spain may end up a balkanized mess of hyper-sensitive "tribes with flags"...all to appease parochial politicians...of course, in some countries, secession might be a positive: Texas leaps to mind...

Originally Posted by Scottish Gary

We actually pin our hopes on tourism, technology and whisky exports. Any money we make from the oil is just a bonus.

Thus confiming that slimey salmond fucked up royally because he'd pinned Scotland's budget on the oil price staying in three figures.

Which everyone knew was shite except the silly SNP.

^Stick to your bathtub gin Harry and leave off trolling about things of which you know nothing.

Originally Posted by Begbie

^Stick to your bathtub gin Harry and leave off trolling about things of which you know nothing.

Stroo tho innit.

Truth hurts eh?

Scotland's oil revenue is running dry

Back in 2014, the SNP made a big noise about just how well an independent Scotland could perform on the world stage. Central to this thesis was the amount of money the country could make from North Sea oil.
Estimates as to just how much revenue could be produced from North Sea oil varied significantly depending on who you asked - but the price of oil itself seemed to be relatively stable at between $90 and $110 per barrel.
In September 2014 - the month of the referendum - crude oil prices were ticking along at $91 per barrel.

Of course if you cadge enough cash off the rest of Britain, they can build a load of wind farms for you.

Originally Posted by Scottish Gary

We actually pin our hopes on tourism, technology and whisky exports. Any money we make from the oil is just a bonus.

Yes, companies like Wolfson, Clydespace, Brewdog have success that is completely dependent on maintaining the union... where do you think they do the most business?

Huge demonstration against Catalan independence in Barcelona



Huge demonstration against Catalan independence in Barcelona

So, 1,000,000 Catalans march "for" independence last month, https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...onal-day-diada
...then 50,000 Spaniards march "against" independence today, Catalonia referendum: 50,000 pro-Spain protesters gather in Madrid as dozens of smaller demonstrations call for dialogue | The Independent
...and the press condemn the Catalan's quest for self-determination as "selfish"?! https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-spain-protest

So where all the other marches in London they trumpeted about, "selfish" too? Is wanting what you want, now "selfish", until you change your main and want what someone else wants?! This is the mentality of a 5-year-old!

Spain's King condemns 'irresponsible behavior' by Catalan leaders

Published on Oct 4, 2017

In a televised address, Spain's King Felipe VI on Tuesday accused Catalan secessionist leaders of shattering democratic principles and dividing Catalan society, as thousands took to the streets to protest against a violent police crackdown against the banned independence referendum held on Sunday.

Spain's King Felipe VI on Tuesday accused Catalan secessionist leaders of shattering democratic principles and dividing Catalan society, as thousands took to the streets to protest against a violent police crackdown against the banned independence referendum held on Sunday.

The televised speech, a rare intervention by the 49-year-old monarch who is normally silent on politics, was a sign of how deeply Spain has been shaken by the Catalan vote and a police crackdown that injured 900 people.

On Tuesday tens of thousands of Catalans demonstrated in the streets of the northeastern region against action by the police who tried to disrupt Sunday's vote by firing rubber bullets and charging into crowds with truncheons.

Tuesday's protests shut down road traffic, public transport and businesses.

The referendum and its aftermath have plunged Spain into its worst constitutional crisis in decades, and are a political test for Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, a conservative who has taken a hard line stance on the issue.

Late Tuesday Catalonia's leader, Carles Puigdemont, told the BBC that the region will declare independence in a matter of days.

Pro-independence parties who control the regional government staged Sunday's referendum in defiance of the Constitutional Court, which had ruled that the vote violated Spain's 1978 constitution which states the country is indivisible.

Catalonia, Spain's richest region, has its own language and culture and a political movement for secession that has strengthened in recent years.

Those who participated in Sunday's ballot voted overwhelmingly for independence, a result that was expected since residents who favour remaining part of Spain mainly boycotted the referendum. Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont has said the result is valid and must be implemented.

Outside of Catalonia, Spaniards mostly hold strong views against its independence drive. In his televised address, the king said the "irresponsible behaviour" of the Catalan leaders had undermined social harmony in the region.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...-idUSKCN1C80UK

Originally Posted by Wilsonandson

Spaniards mostly hold strong views against its independence drive.

Which country whole population will be happy when its strongest portion wants to part? (perhaps UK when Scotland goes?)

Originally Posted by Begbie

Slightly O.T. some historical background. Unfortunately from Wikipedia.


Lluís Companys i Jover (21 June 1882 – 15 October 1940) was the President of Catalonia , from 1934 and during the Spanish Civil War

He was a lawyer and leader of the Republican Left of Catalonia (ERC) political party. Exiled after the war, he was captured and handed over by the Nazi secret police, the Gestapo, to the Spanish dictatorship of Francisco Franco, who had him executed by firing squad in 1940. Companys is the only incumbent democratically elected president in European history to have been executed, and seventy-five years later the council of war which sentenced him is still in force.

Jail and execution: Madrid makes veiled threat to Catalan leader by raising predecessor’s fate
Published time: 10 Oct, 2017

Just ahead of a highly anticipated speech in which the Catalan leader is expected to declare the region’s independence from Spain, the Spanish ruling party has resorted to making threatening allusions to a previous independence bid.
“History should not be repeated. Let’s hope that nothing is declared tomorrow because perhaps the one who declares it will end up like the one declared it 83 years ago,” spokesman for Spain’s ruling People's Party (PP) Pablo Casado said on Monday. The statement came less than 24 hours ahead of Carles Puigdemont’s address to the Catalan parliament, where he is widely expected to defy the Madrid authorities and declare the region’s secession from Spain.

Casado was apparently referring to Lluis Companys, president of Catalonia in the 1930s who proclaimed a ‘Catalan State within the Spanish Federal Republic’ in 1934. Companys had to flee after the Spanish Civil War to France, where he was later captured by the Nazis and handed over to Franco's regime. In 1940, Companys was tried for military rebellion and executed.

https://www.rt.com/news/406202-madrid-threatens-catalan-leader/

(sorry, I haven't found a mentioning about it in a "recognized" media, as e.g. Daily Mail.... )

Originally Posted by Klondyke

www.rt.com

Originally Posted by Klondyke

sorry, I haven't found a mentioning about it in a "recognized" media

check Breitbart...

https://www.ft.com/content/ae1fca4c-...9-abaa44b1e130

The risk of a corralito sealed the deal

I'm sure that's the proverbial lead balloon....


Protests planned as Catalan separatists held behind bars

Two senior pro-independence activists are being detained on sedition charges, with protests breaking out in Barcelona.


A Spanish court has ordered the leaders of two powerful separatist organisations in Catalonia to be detained - a move that could cause tensions to worsen further.
Jordi Cuixart and Jordi Sanchez - presidents of the pro-independence groups Omnium Cultural and the Catalan National Assembly - are being kept in jail on sedition charges.
Protests broke out in Barcelona on Monday as news of their imprisonment spread.
They are accused of stirring up major demonstrations in the run-up to the controversial independence referendum on 1 October.
About 40% of 7.5 million Catalans voted in the referendum, with 90% of those backing independence from Spain.
"The state is playing at provocation," said Catalan government spokesman Jordi Turull after the National Court ruling.
Secretary general of Omnium Cultural, Jordi Bosch, said: "I'm calling for Catalan society to peacefully protest."

The Catalan National Assembly has called for protests across the region, with a strike planned for Tuesday.
Calls for demonstrations also spread on social media, with some planned in Catalonia and beyond, including London.
Hundreds of independence supporters gathered outside Catalan government offices, singing the region's hymn and holding signs that read "freedom for political prisoners".
A video recorded by Cuixart before his detention was sent out overnight, in which he said: "If you're watching this video, it's because the state has decided to deny me my freedom."
The activist added that his organisation would work "underground" and peacefully to further their cause.


The latest detentions came as the Spanish High Court ruled that Catalan police chief Josep Lluis Trapero would not be held in custody while an investigation continues.
He had also been arrested on charges of sedition.
Prosecutors allege he failed to rescue officers from the Civil Guard, the national police force, who were trapped by protesters inside a Catalan government building in September.


On Monday, Catalan President Carles Puigdemont failed to provide a yes or no answer on whether he would declare independence.
Madrid wanted an answer by 10am on Monday, but instead Mr Puigdemont wrote a letter to Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy calling for a meeting "as soon as possible".
Mr Rajoy had warned that Madrid will suspend Catalonia's autonomy if independence was declared.
"You still have time to answer clearly and simply," Mr Rajoy told Mr Puigdemont, warning that weeks of instability were damaging the Spanish economy.
Spain has now given him until 10am local time on Thursday to clarify his position.


Posted in:

• CATALONIA
• SPAINhttp://news.sky.com/story/protests-planned-as-catalan-separatists-held-behind-bars-11084663

Putin on Catalonia: EU triggered rise of separatism by supporting Kosovo independence
19 Oct, 2017

EU countries bolstered separatist sentiment in Europe when they bowed to US pressure and supported Kosovo breaking away from Serbia. They now face such consequences as the Catalan crisis, Russia’s President Vladimir Putin says.

“As for the situation with Catalonia, we have seen a unanimous condemnation of the independence supporters by the EU and a number of other states,” Putin said. “Regarding that, I have to say – you should have thought about it earlier.”

“Did they not know about centuries-old contradictions of this nature in Europe? They knew, didn’t they? But at the time they de facto welcomed the disintegration of a number of states in Europe, with undisguised relish,” he added.

The EU’s “unanimous support of Kosovo’s secession” has proved a turning point, and Europe now faces the repercussions of short-sighted policies aimed at “pleasing the bigger brother from Washington,” Putin believes.

Putin mentioned the 2014 Crimean referendum, which led to the region’s secession from Ukraine and ultimately its reunification with Russia, as a development that was “disliked by many.”

“And now, there you have it – Catalonia, Kurdistan in another region, and the list might be far from complete,” he added.

“It turns out that in the eyes of some of our colleagues, there are legitimate fighters for independence and freedom, and then there are separatists, who cannot defend their rights even through democratic procedures. Those like us say all the time that such double standards – and it’s a glaring example of double standards – are a serious threat to the stable development of Europe and other continents, to the implementation of integration processes worldwide,” Putin said.

https://www.rt.com/news/407203-eu-se...timent-kosovo/

He kind of has a point...



It's funny how EU-ists criticise nationalist seperatist movements within EU states, and of EU states, in lieu of what is effectively EU-nationalism from remainiacs and others - who behave as though the EU is a state, and treat seperatists from it like Spain does Catalonia... as though some form of "patriotism" towards "Europe" as a contrived country is OK, but it's not OK when applied to actual countries and ethnic nations - but there's the rub...

...the EU abhors ethnocentrism and the expression of ethnicity by Europeans (but not by non-Europeans, of course, because that would be "racist") - it wants everyone to year zero their intrinsic identity (Pol Pot style) and accept their extrinsic EU identity - a civil one that allows for people to be treated not like homogenous ethnic familial units with ancient ties to and roots in a particular place, but like exploitable economic units, rather like people in the USA...

It's curious subset of globalisation and rather Orwellian, and that's not ironic at all given that Orwell played some part in the conflict in Spain in the 1930s, and Catalonia opposed Spanish regime then too.

Putin, has a point... the EU's policy of "subsidiarity" is very selective... stand by and do nothing whilst civil war tears part of Europe apart, and simulatenously proclaim that the EU has prevented wars in Europe!

I guess the Caucasus is bit too dusky to be considered Europe to the EU archons too?