Thread: First US Air Combat Victory of the Millenium

The shooting-down of a Syrian jet by the United States is believed to be the first air-to-air kill by a manned US aircraft since 1999.



Despite Hollywood blockbusters showcasing aerial dogfights, they have almost vanished from modern warfare.

In the 20th Century, skilled pilots who clocked up kills were often referred to as aces.

The US considers a pilot with at least five confirmed kills to be an ace - but no serving pilot holds the title.
What was the lesson of the Gulf wars?

A report published by the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments (CSBA) in 2015 found just 59 kills since the 1990s - the large majority of which were in the First Gulf War.

Later that year, when Turkey shot down a Russian Su-24 plane along the Syrian border in a rare conflict, it sparked an international diplomatic row.
Media captionThis video shows a plane falling to the ground on the Syrian border with Turkey

"The era of dogfighting is largely over," says Justin Bronk, a research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, specialising in combat airpower.

"After the totally lopsided kill-to-loss ratio attained by the US Air Force and US Navy during the First Gulf War, it is a very rare thing for regimes under attack by the US and its allies to send fighters up in defence - since they know how it will end."

In that war in early 1991, Iraq lost 33 planes to coalition forces in air-to-air combat. In return, its planes shot down just one coalition F-18, according to the CSBA database.

That lesson led many countries to abandon competition with the US and its allies.

"Even in the latter stages of the First Gulf War, many Iraqi pilots chose to fly their aircraft to Iran to escape certain destruction - no light decision, soon after the brutal Iran-Iraq war," Bronk says.

During the Second Gulf War, Saddam Hussein "had most of his remaining air force buried underground to escape destruction rather than send fighters up".

And when Nato intervened in Libya in 2011 to aid the rebellion against Col Muammar Gaddafi, the country's air force did nothing to defend its airspace.
Why is the US so dominant?

Early air combat during World War One involved lining up an enemy aircraft in the plane's sights and firing machine guns at propeller-powered aircraft flying at relatively low speeds.

Despite technological advancements, the basic principle remained the same for half a century.

But in the modern era, the human eye was quickly replaced. From 1965-1969, guns accounted for 65% of air-to-air kills, the CSBA says.

But between 1990 and 2002, they accounted for just 5% of kills - with the rest carried out by some kind of missile.

"Modern air combat is almost entirely decided by situational awareness [from radar and other sensors] and missile technology," Bronk says. "All recent air-to-air kills between fast jets were one-sided, quick affairs."
Media captionBBC reporter Sharanjit Leyl aboard aircraft carrier USS George Washington

Most kills in the last two decades have been against enemy planes too far away to see with the human eye - which means technology often trumps pilot skill.

That gives the US a clear advantage.

It spends more on military technology than any other nation, has more aircraft carriers and deploys specialist ships with sensor arrays to aid its aerial fleet.

Faced with such a prospect, many air forces choose not to engage a technologically superior force - and leave their planes to conduct patrols or attacks on ground targets.

Syria conflict: Why are air combat kills so rare? - BBC News

Did I miss something, but how is the Syrian pilot?

Air combat victory...

Meanwhile back in the real world.

The shooting-down of a Syrian jet by the United States is believed to be the first air-to-air kill by a manned US aircraft since 1999.

Did the Syrian pilot know it was a dog fight?

typical shyte BBC article, not bothering to give the bare facts just
assuming every fuckers knows all about it

I thought the US was fighting ISIS in Syria.
When did they declare war on Syria?

When they call a government ''the regime'' you know whose side they are on

Originally Posted by Maanaam

When did they declare war on Syria?

there is no Syria to declare war on...only factions, sub-factions, tribes and bureaucrats...all armed to the teeth by various outside groups with political aims of their own...pick the one you like and bomb the bejebus out of the others...

Originally Posted by tomcat

tribes

Yep since forever. Mohamed tried to get them all together and that worked until about 60 years after his death.

Originally Posted by chassamui

Interesting then that they still maintain a defensive capability to use chaff dispensers.

Those are for SAM's as well.

So the US shot down a Syrian plane which had just bombed ISIS in Syrian air space.

The US says it is fighting ISIS and Syria is also fighting ISIS so why is the US attacking Syria.

Yes I know the answer to that, the US is largely responsible for the mess in Syria by supporting, arming and even training a rebel force to attempt to take over the Government of their country by force.
They are now calling these rebels their allies in the fight against ISIS yet the only reason ISIS has been able to get into Syria is because of the rebel insurgency leaving a vacuum to be filled.

Calling the rebels their allies against ISIS gives the US the excuse to continuing to supply them with weapons and 'support' them with air power, bombs and missiles while the main aim of the rebels is still to take over the country regardless of how many die or are displaced in the process.

Here is the cold-war era crate that got shot down. A sukhoi 22/17



Fish...

Barrel...

Taken out by a work-horse super hornet.

Syria war: RAAF temporarily halts missions after US jet shoots down Syrian bomber

Australia has temporarily halted air operations over Syria after the United States downed a Syrian military jet that dropped bombs near US-led Coalition fighters in western Raqqa.



The suspension comes amid increasing tension between the US and Russia, with Russian officials describing the incident as a dangerous escalation.

A Defence spokesman has told the ABC force protection was regularly reviewed and combat missions were continuing over Iraq.

"Australian Defence Force (ADF) personnel are closely monitoring the air situation in Syria and a decision on the resumption of ADF air operations in Syria will be made in due course," a spokesman said.

A written statement from the US coalition in Iraq said a US F-18 Super Hornet shot down a Syrian Government SU-22 after it dropped bombs near soldiers from the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF).

The shoot-down was near Tabqah — a Syrian town in an area that has been a week-long focus of fighting against Islamic State group militants by the SDF, as they surround the city of Raqqa and attempt to retake it.

The US military statement said it acted in "collective self-defence" of its partner forces and the US did not seek a fight with the Syrian Government or its Russian supporters.

Syria war: RAAF temporarily halts missions after US jet shoots down Syrian bomber - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

'downed a Syrian military jet that dropped bombs near US-led Coalition fighters in western Raqqa.'

I did not realise the US had 'boots on the ground' in Syria

F/A-18 looks quite cool with the tiger stripes.

I see the rebels have now become "the Syrian Democratic Forces" wonder how they became democratic, had an election or something.
No matter what fancy name they are given they are still a bunch of rebels attempting to take over the Government of their country by force of arms and should they ever get into power they will turn the country into another Libya with several factions fighting for control.

Not surprised the Ozzies are getting out they were blamed for the last atrocity when Syrian troops were bombed and killed and they wont want any part in this latest escalation.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Enter the coordinates, press the button and home for tea.

Or if you are flying a Russian bomber just open the bomb bay doors somewhere in the vicinity and carpet bomb the fuckers

Originally Posted by OhOh

They only hit the bad guys remember not the brown guys and gals.

Whereas Russian bombing runs are an equal opportunity non-discriminatory affair!

Originally Posted by OhOh

But Loopers gets a hard on and can fly his model planes around with a new missile awaiting.

I will post up my F/A-18 but sadly I don't have any sukhois let alone a 22/17

Originally Posted by OhOh

There is a democratically elected government and President

so, you think the Syria is a democracy then:

Was there actually any "combat"? It seems the Syrian plane was on a bombing mission, so returning empty with only a spud gun for defence. And probably shot from behind, knowing them yanks.

Originally Posted by Looper

I did not realise the US had 'boots on the ground' in Syria

Yes, it's the second such attack they have made on Syria allied forces, with the same excuse given last time.

^The Tomahawk attack was on a Syrian airbase in retaliation for alleged chemical weapons attack against civilians.

This old crate was taken down for dropping bombs 'near a US lead coalition team'. That second detail was the first time I had heard that there were US ground forces in Syria.

Originally Posted by Looper

^The Tomahawk attack was on a Syrian airbase in retaliation for alleged chemical weapons attack against civilians.

This old crate was taken down for dropping bombs 'near a US lead coalition team'. That second detail was the first time I had heard that there were US ground forces in Syria.

I wasn't referring to the Tomahawk attack. I was referring to an attack on ground forces that were allegedly too close to a US lead coalition team or heading in their direction.

Originally Posted by Looper

'near a US lead coalition team'

How near is near? 1Km, 100Km or 10,000Km from ameristani sovereign territory?

The "coalition team" of the now clean shaven, newly uniformed terrorists or maybe the ones flown in on Saturday to lead the parade and fly some "friendly" terrorists flags for the MSM cameras?

It didn't take the "coalition team" long to reconsider the benefit of being a coalition member once the Syrians, Russians and Iranians started shooting, verbally and literally back, did it? AUS and CDN already, others tomorrow no doubt.

Oh how the empire and it's "team" are showing their true cowardly colours.

arguing with Looper on anything to do with politics or war...

And they're making Top Gun with Tom Cruise.


Maybe it will be set during the 1991 Iraq War.