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  1. #1
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Shaken by Trump’s Criticism of NATO, Europe Mulls Building Own Military Force

    LONDON —
    European leaders were left shaken following U.S. President Donald Trump’s recent comments that NATO is "obsolete". The organization has formed the bedrock of Europe’s security since World War II, but some EU leaders say Europe must now take responsibility for its own defense. The continent would face a huge deficit in military capability if the NATO alliance broke down.

    German troops are making final preparations for their deployment to Lithuania, part of NATO’s 4,000 troop reinforcement in the Baltic States and Poland.

    The deployment is meant to reassure frontline states. But U.S. President Donald Trump’s recent comments that NATO is "obsolete" have shaken European allies.

    Wolfgang Ischinger is head of the Munich Security Conference, an annual global summit on defense due to take place next month.

    “In addition to the crises we had last year, Ukraine, Syria, the South China Sea, North Korea etc., now we appear to have almost panic in the trans-Atlantic space," said Ischinger. "Is NATO obsolete or not? Is the European Union something which the U.S. can or should ignore or is the EU America's most important partner?”

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said Europe now has its fate in its own hands. But Jonathan Eyal of Britain's Royal United Services Institute says it will take a dramatic shift in EU policy to make up for any rupture in the U.S. alliance.

    “While there is a lot of discussion about closer cooperation in the European Union, there simply is no substitute for American military power," said Eyal. "Up to 75 percent of all the military assets in NATO belong to the United States.”

    Currently Germany, along with several other European NATO allies, spend far less on defense than the two percent of GDP (Gross Domestic Product) they pledged to spend in 2014.

    “There is a commitment in Germany to increase defense expenditure, but we are far off, and especially in an election year in Germany we will remain far off, any chance of a major boost in defense expenditure," said Eyal.

    Core members including France, Germany, Spain and Italy want closer EU military and intelligence cooperation, a move backed by the bloc’s foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini.

    "First of all it means that Europeans are started to take seriously their security," said Mogherini. "We have started to do this ... well before the UK referendum, well before the U.S. elections because security is a priority for Europeans.”

    Britain has blocked efforts towards building an EU military alliance, fearing it could undermine NATO.

    But with Britain set to leave the bloc within the next few years, the calls for a European Union military force could grow louder.

    Shaken by Trump?s Criticism of NATO, Europe Mulls Building Own Military Force

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    If Europeans can't defend themselves by themselves, there's something wrong with being European. I note that many continental nations are dependent on Russian gas and, to a lesser extent, oil. Why is this still the case after the Crimea and other intimidating Russian military adventures? That Putin is an unabashed throwback to Czarist days should be apparent even to the most sanguine of European leaders (yes, Angela, I'm looking at you).
    Last edited by tomcat; 26-01-2017 at 11:37 AM.
    Majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd

  3. #3
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    So Trumpie has finally rattled the Euro cages and they have started to shake off their lethargy. It's about time. 75% of NATO assets are American...?? The empire building Eurocrats have been quite happy to live under the US umbrella for far too long.....now they are in a flap because somebody is telling them to pay for their own defense for a change.
    I blame the Americans......and Thaksin.

  4. #4
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    In dollar terms the Americans spend approx 3 times the whole of Europe which is ridiculous and you can see why USA wants the rest of Nato to contribute more. Of the approx 25% that Europe contributes the UK contributes the next largest amount approx 6%. (the Brexit bashers in the EU would do well to remember that).
    Its time Europe weened themselves off the American teat and started handling their fair share. It is unrealistic to expect the US to spend more than some countries GDP on defending Europe. The USA needs to start defunding Nato and get Europe to pick up the slack. some of those Nato countries are paying an absolute pittance.

  5. #5
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    German troops off to Poland...well, well, well.

    Europe just keeps repeating itself ...on and. On...

    Can't see this ending well

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyCap
    German troops off to Poland...well, well, well.
    German troops train in the UK, or used to. I don't see any problems with Poland.

  7. #7
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    A European Nato style alliance would be impossible. The nations see it as expensive and would never be able to agree on any deployment, due to vested interests. It's similar to the impending collapse of federalism in the EU. A talking shop wasting money and prevaricating.

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    If Europeans can't defend themselves by themselves, there's something wrong with being European. I note that many continental nations are dependent on Russian gas and, to a lesser extent, oil. Why is this still the case after the Crimea and other intimidating Russian military adventures? That Putin is an unabashed throwback to Czarist days should be apparent even to the most sanguine of European leaders (yes, Angela, I'm looking at you).

    Angela has to stop wasting money on shithole countries. Development Assistance to those countries is like throwing pearls before swines.
    Not counting the money wasted on refugees coming from these shithole countries

    The Crimea ? Who gives a flying fuc* . The Ukraine is so corrupt that it could qualify for one of those invested religious shithole countries.
    Putin...go for it, and keep the gas flowing to Europe.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman
    It's about time. 75% of NATO assets are American...??
    Because they want it that way.

  10. #10
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    The EU have secretly wanted their own army for years but always deny it publicly. Good luck getting those East European forces to fight under a German commander.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    So Trumpie has finally rattled the Euro cages and they have started to shake off their lethargy. It's about time. 75% of NATO assets are American...?? The empire building Eurocrats have been quite happy to live under the US umbrella for far too long.....now they are in a flap because somebody is telling them to pay for their own defense for a change.
    indeed, about fucking time

    DeGaulles would be proud,

    Vive le Trump, Vive la France

  12. #12
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    We should actually unite with Putin by creating a European Alliance with him

    The French and German would be on board,

    and the silly Brits can fuck off back to their little island, the silly fuckers

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    We should actually unite with Putin by creating a European Alliance with him

    The French and German would be on board,

    and the silly Brits can fuck off back to their little island, the silly fuckers
    Did a Brit chick/dude once break your heart?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly
    its can fuck off back to their little island, the silly fuckers
    Now now....they are only one of two countries in the EU that has anything like a real military force left. It's not quite what it was back in the day, but at least they still have one or maybe two good fighting brigades, and of course a significant nuclear force, even if it's aging a bit.

    If you leave out the UK and France.....the rest of the EU could barely form a decent regiment, and the idea that all these countries could integrate their meager military resources into a credible unified defense force. is highly questionable; so they better get their asses in gear now that Trumpie has given them notice.....

    Gotta spend a few Euros to get a real army, navy and air force. I suppose they could hire Brits as mercenaries .....if unemployment rises a lot, after they Brexit.....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman
    they are only one of two countries in the EU that has anything like a real military force left. It's not quite what it was back in the day, but at least they still have one or maybe two good fighting brigades, and of course a significant nuclear force, even if it's aging a bit.
    they have a good force but don't have the budget to maintain properly, and after Brexit this will get worse

    and their generals are worthless, so good troops with pointless command chain is worthless

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    We should actually unite with Putin by creating a European Alliance with him

    The French and German would be on board,

    and the silly Brits can fuck off back to their little island, the silly fuckers
    Did a Brit chick/dude once break your heart?
    Brits are a lot of fun and love the culture,

    I do have a problem with your silly politics and your worthless coward politicians like Nigel and Cameron

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman
    Gotta spend a few Euros to get a real army, navy and air force. I suppose they could hire Brits as mercenaries .....if unemployment rises a lot, after they Brexit.....
    not a bad idea, could have the best of their troops under unified French/German command

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    We should actually unite with Putin by creating a European Alliance with him

    The French and German would be on board,

    and the silly Brits can fuck off back to their little island, the silly fuckers
    Did a Brit chick/dude once break your heart?
    Brits are a lot of fun and love the culture,

    I do have a problem with your silly politics and your worthless coward politicians like Nigel and Cameron
    I agree Cameron is a coward as he clearly said that in the event of a Brexit vote he would remain PM and implement the will of the people and trigger article 50 the next day but he quit Parliament to go and enrich himself. Nigel isn't a coward he hasn't run from anything, has his radio show on LBC taking calls from all comers and will carry on holding the government to account. The man should be knighted as without him there would have been no referendum and no Brexit.

  19. #19
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    The Eurovision Song Contest is being held in the Ukraine this weekend.

  20. #20
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    Finally. It took way too long for Europe to admit this. Let's see if they actually follow through and do something.

  21. #21
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    Good Europe's been shaken up by the plucky Brits leading the way along with Trump.
    Things can only get better.

  22. #22
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi
    Things can only get better.
    well, more entertaining anyway...

  23. #23
    Thailand Expat cyrille's Avatar
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    "First of all it means that Europeans are started to take seriously their security," said Mogherini. "We have started to do this ... well before the UK referendum, well before the U.S. elections because security is a priority for Europeans.”
    ^ Bolded for the hard of thinking.


    Read the op properly and you'll see precisely nothing that is actually in direct response to Trump's recent comments.


    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers
    Finally.

  24. #24
    Fresh Seaman CaptainNemo's Avatar
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    The EU is bust.

    Only about a dozen of NATO members pay their membership fees.

    Can you imagine how terrifying a united EU military force would be?



    We've seen how effective the EU nations were(n't) during the collapse of Yugoslavia.

    As if the UK would want to be involved... we have joint projects exclusively between ourselves and the Anglosphere: USA & Commonwealth.

    Putin must be chuckling, and writing Obama a thank you note.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1F2i0rYMj8

    we are all figments of our own imagination.

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