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  1. #26
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    ^^ Very well then. I still think that Trump will wind up being exposed as an even bigger traitor.
    Fair enough. We shall see.

    There are many that have daggers waiting for him, including the GOP establishment that would like Pence.

    I see a move to quash him.

  2. #27
    Balls to Monty
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    So why has her sentence been commuted? None of the articles I have read give an explanation. Surely not out of special consideration because Manning has become a transexual and a high profile member of the special treatment LGBTQIetc. community?

    What kind of message is this sending to other young members of the intelligence community and forces who might be tempted in the future to elevate their anonymous existence to one of fame and notoriety by cynically betraying their country in a similar way?

  3. #28
    Philippine Expat Davis Knowlton's Avatar
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    ^Excellent questions to which absolutely no answers nor explanations have been given.

  4. #29
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Pizza
    They state that he put lives at risk.
    Altough no one was killed, publishing a list of informants in Afganistan certianly put their lives at risk.
    Publishing a video showing US military knowingly killing civilians would not.

    Both Manning and Snowden were convicted of violating the 1917 Espionage Act. The act that is used anytime information is published by folks working in or for the US government and have taken an oath of non disclosure. In this regard there is no wistle blower protection. The prescribed process is to reporting what one believes is an illegal action through the chain of command. Generally a waste of time with the risk of reprisal.

    Bottom line, publicizing anything, no matter how illegal, will result in jail time. Needs to be some sort of process where military folks can disclose illegal actions with no reprisals and assurance the allegation is investigated.

  5. #30
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    Excellent questions to which absolutely no answers nor explanations have been given
    Nor are any required: all pardons and commutations are at the discretion of the President...folks can speculate, of course, but who cares? What's done is done.

  6. #31
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    Continued expansion of the empire...

  7. #32
    Philippine Expat Davis Knowlton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post

    who cares? What's done is done.
    I suspect quite a few people care that a precedent for granting pardons to convicted traitors has been set. I also think quite a few people would like to know why. Maybe you don't care, and that is your right, but many others do.

  8. #33
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    Maybe you don't care, and that is your right, but many others do
    ...and they are free to speculate.

  9. #34
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    So why has her sentence been commuted?
    Obama pardon or commuted 254 folks. Why not ask why the other 253 were pardoned?

    Then again hardly the catchy breaking news headline cummuting a transgender traitor.

  10. #35
    Balls to Monty
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat
    ...and they are free to speculate.
    And that is what we are doing. If you are not interested then the games room is over here

    The Games Room - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Norton
    Obama pardon or commuted 254 folks. Why not ask why the other 253 were pardoned?
    Because this a thread about Chelsea Manning.

  11. #36
    Philippine Expat Davis Knowlton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Obama pardon or commuted 254 folks. Why not ask why the other 253 were pardoned?
    Most were drug cases with people serving long sentences imposed at the height of the so-called war on drugs. In the case of Manning, Obama went against the strong recommendation of his Secretary of Defense and other senior members of the government for reasons that he may explain one day....or not..

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    ^^ & ^: One was a member of the US military, the other worked in classified USG facilities. Both swore an oath to protect classified information to which they had access in the course of their jobs. Both knowingly violated that trust. In my book, that makes them traitors.
    I understand you are the kind of guy that "I was just following orders" type but being "civilized" and "human" is also an intrinsic oath, and the duty of a whistleblower goes far beyond those of the military. War crimes were committed by American troops, and being exposed is not a traitor act, but more like the act of a courageous patriot who believe in greater things. Those who witnessed war crimes act and do nothing, are as guilty as those who committed them. There is a limit to blindness and being military "stupid".

    I don't expect you to understand that because you weren't probably exposed to "greater things" principles in your education. Different people, different education, different opinions on what matters.

  13. #38
    Balls to Monty
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    ^so why not just expose the relevant crime that worries your conscience rather than dump the entire portfolio of hard-won intelligence in the lap of 'wikileaks'

  14. #39
    Philippine Expat Davis Knowlton's Avatar
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    ^Don't bother. It's like arguing with your goldfish.

  15. #40
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    for reasons that he may explain one day....or not..
    Patience. 10 minutes after Trump is inaugurated he will start writing a new book. All will be explained.

  16. #41
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    Because this a thread about Chelsea Manning.
    Fair nuff but he pardoned Gen James "Hoss" Cartwright too. Where is the outrage?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi
    He had to do it because Trump would have pardoned Manning anyway
    Clueless lemming. Have you ever been to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    other than to allow you to derail the thread to pursue your own political agenda.
    I have no agenda. WTF? Odd you would claim so as I am clearly opposed to the status quo. Trump is is in Putins back pocket if you can not see that your are lost.

  18. #43
    Philippine Expat Davis Knowlton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post

    Fair nuff but he pardoned Gen James "Hoss" Cartwright too. Where is the outrage?
    Not a very well known case.

  19. #44
    Philippine Expat Davis Knowlton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi
    He had to do it because Trump would have pardoned Manning anyway
    Clueless lemming. Have you ever been to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    other than to allow you to derail the thread to pursue your own political agenda.
    I have no agenda. WTF? Odd you would claim so as I am clearly opposed to the status quo. Trump is is in Putins back pocket if you can not see that your are lost.
    None of which has a thing to do with this thread.

  20. #45
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    ^^ It should be...

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton View Post
    ^Don't bother. It's like arguing with your goldfish.
    in my book, you are the gold fish.

    You would kill women and children if asked to by following your military logic. You are what we call an "ordinary" authoritarian, like it is for most who join the military or follow a religious cult

    nothing wrong with that, like police force and firefighters, you are what we call a "useful gold fish"

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi
    He had to do it because Trump would have pardoned Manning anyway
    Clueless lemming. Have you ever been to the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    other than to allow you to derail the thread to pursue your own political agenda.
    I have no agenda. WTF? Odd you would claim so as I am clearly opposed to the status quo. Trump is is in Putins back pocket if you can not see that your are lost.
    Still getting all your info from fake news sites I see, Trump in Putins back pocket.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    None of which has a thing to do with this thread.
    OK.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    ^so why not just expose the relevant crime that worries your conscience rather than dump the entire portfolio of hard-won intelligence in the lap of 'wikileaks'
    because you need evidence to make your case, like it was for the Pentagon files with the war crimes on the Vietnam War,

    these days, mainstream media are all cowardice, they don't touch hot dossier or they will be banned from the WH press corp (soon to happen to CNN)

    next stop: Internet blogosphere and wikileaks

    these alternatives are there for a reason, because it's the only "information valve" we have for now

  25. #50
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    Not a very well known case.
    And that's my point. Not worth mention as a media headline. If I had power to pardon I would have let Petreaus out.

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