Thread: US Troops to Arrive in Europe in January to Reassure Allies

Originally Posted by OhOh

Your post have been full of holes which have been highlighted. Or are you just trying to make the rotting compost heap higher with your additional bullshit?

At least all my posts are factual, and not based on irrational anger and hatred.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Who you appear to adore and publicly support, which places you somewhat deeper in the shit.

Yet further proof that a) You have not read my posts or b) You have chosen to imbue them with what you think I said.
That's okay, people who lack the ability to critically analyse do it all the time.

Originally Posted by chassamui

That's okay, people who lack the ability to critically analyse do it all the time.

I hope you are including yourself when you say "people"

Simply put, more US troops in Europe do not reduce tensions- they increase them. There are way too many US troops in Europe already- if they want to deploy some elsewhere, why don't they just shift some from the over fattened, useless US/Nato bases in West Germany and send them further east? It's just useless, inane sabre rattling for the sake of it- designed to do nothing more than harm Europe and Russia's best interests. That is what Nato has become.

^ Yep.

^ and another reason they give is that old eastern block countries are nervous that Russia will invade them as they have done in the Ukraine.
That's so simplistic the public will buy it.

Having lived through the entire cold war I certainly remember it and the role NATO played in containing Soviet expansion. Putin is an opportunist and will, given the opportunity, exploit military or economic weakness in nations neighboring Russia.

My argument against NATO as it has become is the US continues to fund it far beyond any Euopean country threatened by Russian aggression. A stable Europe is in the interest of the US but certainly more in the interests of Europe. The US can play a part but it's time Europe took the lead and the bulk of the cost for defending itself. Weather done via a restructure of NATO, an EU military force or a new European mutual defense agreement is irrelevant as long as Europe leads and provides the funding.

Originally Posted by chassamui

What short memories you all have. The presence of Nato forces in Europe led to the Fall of the Wall. On November 9, 1989, as the Cold War began to thaw across Eastern Europe.
Does anyone believe that Putin is less of a threat than his predecessors? How desperate does the Russian economy need to be, for Putin to attempt another land grab, just to distract his own peopl from their financial woes at home.
The popularity of far right politics in Europe will give him nothing but encouragement.

Care to tell us about the desperate Russian economy.

Balance of trade surplus.

Russia Balance of Trade | 1997-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

Debt to GDP ratio 17.7%

Russia Government Debt to GDP | 1999-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar

Heading towards food self sufficiency.

Russia to be self-sufficient in food by 2023 | Russia & India Report

Self sufficient in fuel and energy.

Russia - Energy

Fuel and energy exporter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia..._energy_sector

Worlds 6th highest gold reserves.

Top 10 Countries with Largest Gold Reserves - U.S. Global Investors

Europe needs Russia more than Russia needs Europe for both energy imports and food exports.

https://euobserver.com/economic/130121

For your own enlightenment compare those numbers with the USA or Europe, country by country if you like, then tell us who's economy is in desperate trouble.

Originally Posted by birding

For your own enlightenment compare those numbers with the USA or Europe, country by country if you like, then tell us who's economy is in desperate trouble.

Interesting sources. Most info drawn from a pro Russian news agency. A bit like the Thai Tourism Authority patting itself on the back.
All the positive points you make fail to mention that the country relies heavily on natural resources (oil and gas). Not only are these finite resources, but they rely on Soviet equipment and methodology which is extremely wasteful. The production cost for Russian oil and gas is twice that of western producers, and failing or absent equipment and infrastructure, along with centralised controls
will keep energy in the doldrums.
I really did like your energy link. A historical Library of Congress site that pretty much undermines everything you say. But then again, it does finish in the 1990s.
Unlike you. Putin is not stupid, so he does use research properly, and has hedged his bets with massive gold reserves.
The Russian economy is an anachronism based largely on expensive energy, to drive old style, centralised heavy industry.

Originally Posted by Norton

Having lived through the entire cold war I certainly remember it and the role NATO played in containing Soviet expansion. Putin is an opportunist and will, given the opportunity, exploit military or economic weakness in nations neighboring Russia.

My argument against NATO as it has become is the US continues to fund it far beyond any Euopean country threatened by Russian aggression. A stable Europe is in the interest of the US but certainly more in the interests of Europe. The US can play a part but it's time Europe took the lead and the bulk of the cost for defending itself. Weather done via a restructure of NATO, an EU military force or a new European mutual defense agreement is irrelevant as long as Europe leads and provides the funding.

The EU will never be in a position to raise any kind of military alliance on the scale of Nato.
The most sensible option would be for existing alliances to gradually accept more responsibility for the region. Current Anglo French and Scandinavian cooperation agreements would be a good start, allowing the US to taper most of its involvement.
Fortunately that plan does not depend on membership of the EU, which I believe will fail as a federal project in the long term.

Originally Posted by chassamui

The most sensible option would be for existing alliances to gradually accept more responsibility for the region

Works for me.

that's why we need a strong leader in one EU country to forge a new military alliance with Russians at the center of procurement for military equipment and men

anyway if we don't work with the Russians, they might do it on their own

Originally Posted by chassamui

Originally Posted by birding

For your own enlightenment compare those numbers with the USA or Europe, country by country if you like, then tell us who's economy is in desperate trouble.

Interesting sources. Most info drawn from a pro Russian news agency. A bit like the Thai Tourism Authority patting itself on the back.
All the positive points you make fail to mention that the country relies heavily on natural resources (oil and gas). Not only are these finite resources, but they rely on Soviet equipment and methodology which is extremely wasteful. The production cost for Russian oil and gas is twice that of western producers, and failing or absent equipment and infrastructure, along with centralised controls
will keep energy in the doldrums.
I really did like your energy link. A historical Library of Congress site that pretty much undermines everything you say. But then again, it does finish in the 1990s.
Unlike you. Putin is not stupid, so he does use research properly, and has hedged his bets with massive gold reserves.
The Russian economy is an anachronism based largely on expensive energy, to drive old style, centralised heavy industry.

So you have no links to back up your belief in the anti Russian propaganda and of course the same stupid assertion that all the links I have provided are to use your words 'from a pro Russian news agency'. You dont want to know the truth.

And dd you do a comparison, no way, heck you dont even have to do that with the US just look at the topics on here on US pensions and their economy.

Oh and tell us what does Europe have that Russia would want to start a war over, Muslin immigrants possible, na Russia has more sense than to accept millions of them.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

that's why we need a strong leader in one EU country to forge a new military alliance with Russians at the center of procurement for military equipment and men

anyway if we don't work with the Russians, they might do it on their own

You would like Europe to procure Russian men for you now? Are their ladyboys not up to it.

Originally Posted by birding

Originally Posted by chassamui

Originally Posted by birding

For your own enlightenment compare those numbers with the USA or Europe, country by country if you like, then tell us who's economy is in desperate trouble.

Interesting sources. Most info drawn from a pro Russian news agency. A bit like the Thai Tourism Authority patting itself on the back.
All the positive points you make fail to mention that the country relies heavily on natural resources (oil and gas). Not only are these finite resources, but they rely on Soviet equipment and methodology which is extremely wasteful. The production cost for Russian oil and gas is twice that of western producers, and failing or absent equipment and infrastructure, along with centralised controls
will keep energy in the doldrums.
I really did like your energy link. A historical Library of Congress site that pretty much undermines everything you say. But then again, it does finish in the 1990s.
Unlike you. Putin is not stupid, so he does use research properly, and has hedged his bets with massive gold reserves.
The Russian economy is an anachronism based largely on expensive energy, to drive old style, centralised heavy industry.

So you have no links to back up your belief in the anti Russian propaganda and of course the same stupid assertion that all the links I have provided are to use your words 'from a pro Russian news agency'. You dont want to know the truth.

And dd you do a comparison, no way, heck you dont even have to do that with the US just look at the topics on here on US pensions and their economy.

Oh and tell us what does Europe have that Russia would want to start a war over, Muslin immigrants possible, na Russia has more sense than to accept millions of them.

Try paying attention to something other than the sound of your own voice for a change. Your links are poor quality and if you took the trouble to read and research them properly, you might understand that.
At least butterfly is amusing.

Originally Posted by chassamui

Originally Posted by birding

Originally Posted by chassamui

Originally Posted by birding

For your own enlightenment compare those numbers with the USA or Europe, country by country if you like, then tell us who's economy is in desperate trouble.

Interesting sources. Most info drawn from a pro Russian news agency. A bit like the Thai Tourism Authority patting itself on the back.
All the positive points you make fail to mention that the country relies heavily on natural resources (oil and gas). Not only are these finite resources, but they rely on Soviet equipment and methodology which is extremely wasteful. The production cost for Russian oil and gas is twice that of western producers, and failing or absent equipment and infrastructure, along with centralised controls
will keep energy in the doldrums.
I really did like your energy link. A historical Library of Congress site that pretty much undermines everything you say. But then again, it does finish in the 1990s.
Unlike you. Putin is not stupid, so he does use research properly, and has hedged his bets with massive gold reserves.
The Russian economy is an anachronism based largely on expensive energy, to drive old style, centralised heavy industry.

So you have no links to back up your belief in the anti Russian propaganda and of course the same stupid assertion that all the links I have provided are to use your words 'from a pro Russian news agency'. You dont want to know the truth.

And dd you do a comparison, no way, heck you dont even have to do that with the US just look at the topics on here on US pensions and their economy.

Oh and tell us what does Europe have that Russia would want to start a war over, Muslin immigrants possible, na Russia has more sense than to accept millions of them.

Try paying attention to something other than the sound of your own voice for a change. Your links are poor quality and if you took the trouble to read and research them properly, you might understand that.
At least butterfly is amusing.

Still nothing to back up your own bias opinion I see.

All the links I have posted I have read and all are backed up by others but I suppose you would consider them all to be pro Russian as I suspect you would anything that is not pro US.

Originally Posted by birding

Still nothing to back up your own bias opinion I see.

All the links I have posted I have read and all are backed up by others but I suppose you would consider them all to be pro Russian as I suspect you would anything that is not pro US.

Your conspiracy theories are very sad. You probably believe in god and I'm sure you are convinced you can prove it. Keep listening to those voices in your head.

Originally Posted by OhOh

The NATO agreement is only for defense of an armed attack, on NATO member countries, not European, in the North Atlantic area. Read the NATO agreement for your education not the fake, illegal utterances of a failing empire and it's vassals.

I'm very familiar with the agreement. If your point is I failed to specify "member" European countries in my post, although pedantic nit picking fixed below.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by Norton
My argument against NATO as it has become is the US continues to fund it far beyond any Euopean member country threatened by Russian aggression

My point is simple. The defense of European countries, be they members of NATO or not, is a European issue and as such the US contribution as compared to European countries is excessive and needs to stop.

Dying empires always export their internal problems in the form of war. This is nothing new. I just hope the US would split up already, but those pussies in Texas are all talk I reckon, and I have even less faith in California pulling the thumb out.

There are those who know .... those who don't know .... but the most annoying , outspoken and dangerous are ....

... those who don't know they don't know .​

Originally Posted by chassamui

Originally Posted by birding

Still nothing to back up your own bias opinion I see.

All the links I have posted I have read and all are backed up by others but I suppose you would consider them all to be pro Russian as I suspect you would anything that is not pro US.

Your conspiracy theories are very sad. You probably believe in god and I'm sure you are convinced you can prove it. Keep listening to those voices in your head.

You prove by your posts that you have nothing to offer in rebuttal to any of the FACTS I have posted.

If you want to be taken seriously then prove that what I have posted is wrong :

1/ Russia has a balance of payments surplus.
2/ Russian debt levels are low at 17.7% of GDP.
3/ Russia is self sufficient in energy.
4/ Russia exports energy to EU countries.
5/ US and several EU countries economies are in a worse state than the Russian economy.

Your insults are a sure sign that you know you are wrong but refuse to admit it.