Thread: Egypt Air flight from Paris to Cairo

Well done, Yanks. Three life terms plus 110 years without possibility of parole.

Of course, I'm not sure if that means much to a suicide bomber, albeit a failed one.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Well done, Yanks. Three life terms plus 110 years without possibility of parole.

Of course, I'm not sure if that means much to a suicide bomber, albeit a failed one.

Well the good thing about supermax's is that they can slap the fucker around a bit and no-one will know.

Or care...

Photos of wreckage were posted on the official Facebook page for the military spokesman of the Egyptian Armed Forces





EgyptAir: Smoke detected inside cabin before crash - BBC News

It's noticeable that no terrorist group has claimed responsibility for it (as far as I know).

give it a couple of days.

Be warned,that's what happens when you smoke in the toilet.

^ I am not sure the problem was that simple, but we will have to wait and see. I thought aircraft toilets were fitted with automatic extinguishers following previous accidents (e.g. Air Canada 797) Certainly fire detector would have gone off before the fire got out of hand...unless all the cabin crew were asleep at the time.

Of course, you can't put it past one of the ME gents brewing up on a gas stove as per Saudi Flt 163.....

EgyptAir crash: Flight data seems to 'point towards a bomb' as first images of debris emerge

Data from the final moments before EgyptAir flight MS804 crashed into the Mediterranean suggest an "internal explosion" tore through the right side of the aircraft, a pilot said last night.

Investigators trying to determine whether the A320 was brought down by terrorism or a technical fault are poring over a series of warnings indicating smoke filled the cabin shortly before it disappeared from radar.

French authorities confirmed that smoke detectors went off aboard the flight a few minutes before it crashed but said it was not clear what caused the smoke or fire.

A commercial pilot with a major European airline told The Telegraph that other parts of the data log suggested that windows in the right side of the cockpit were blown out by an explosion inside the aircraft.

"It looks like the right front and side window were blown out, most probably from inside out," said the pilot, who flies an A330 similar to the crashed A320 and spoke on condition of anonymity.

The data was taken from the plane's Acars system, which sends short transmissions from the aircraft to receivers on the ground.

Until investigators find the aircraft's black boxes, which are still missing in the Mediterannean, the Acars offers the best sens on what was happening aboard.

Three different warnings showed there were faults in the windows next to the co-pilot, suggesting they could have been blasted outwards by an onboard bomb. That does not mean the explosion came from the cockpit but indicates the right side of the plane was more badly damaged than the left.

The pilot suggested the smoke detectors may have been triggered not fire but by fog which filled the cabin as it lost air pressure in the moments after the explosion.
EgyptAir crash: Flight data seems to 'point towards a bomb' as first images of debris emerge

^ BBC this morning indicated that the fire started in the toilet behind the cockpit.

Terminal Cornucopia by Evan Booth

Evan Booth bought all of the stuff he needed to make this "shotgun" / bomb in the shops in departures after he had gone through airport security. It could be scaled up, but even as it is, it could penetrate the walls of an airplane.

Ominous graffiti was scribbled on the bottom of the crashed EgyptAir flight

Ominous graffiti reading "We will bring this plane down" in Arabic was written underneath the EgyptAir jet that crashed en route from Paris to Cairo on Thursday morning, The New York Times reported on Saturday.

The note — which, at this point, is nothing more than a coincidence — is believed to have been written about two years ago by aviation workers at Cairo Airport who were sympathetic to the Muslim brotherhood, according to three Egyptian officials.

The workers also wrote "traitor" and "murderer" in reference to Egypt’s president, the Times reported, "playing on the phonetic similarity between the last two letters in the plane’s registration, SU-GCC, and the surname of Egypt’s president, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi."

The officials did not specify who found the graffiti, which was evidently documented by the airline after it was discovered in 2014.

Three in-flight security officers, Walid Ouda, Mohammed Farag, and Mahmoud el Sayed, were on flight MS804 when it crashed, according to The Times, but they had no criminal history or record of suspicious behavior.

Officials said it is protocol to have two security personnel on every EgyptAir flight. Previous statements from aviation authorities indicate that the third guard onboard flight MS804 was a trainee.

Flights over Egypt have encountered trouble on several occasions in the past year, prompting aviation authorities to instruct pilots to fly above 26,000 feet in the region.

In October 2015, a Russian airliner crashed in northern Egypt, killing all 224 people on board, and an EgyptAir flight was hijacked and forced to land in Cyprus in March, prompting an hours long standoff. No one was harmed in that incident.

In 2002, an EgyptAir Boeing 737 went down near Tunis-Carthage International Airport, killing 14.

In 1999, an EgyptAir flight from Los Angeles to Cairo, with a stop in New York, crashed into the Atlantic Ocean, 60 miles off Nantucket Island, killing the 217 people on board.

Greece's civil-aviation department said that while it was in contact with the pilot, 36-year-old Capt. Mohamed Shoukair, he seemed "in good spirits and thanked the controller in Greek," after he was cleared to exit Greek airspace. Shoukair had logged more than 6,000 flying hours, and his copilot, 24-year-old Mohamed Mamdouh Assem, had logged just over 2,000 flying hours.

Greek investigators said they found body parts, debris, and personal belongings of passengers in the Mediterranean on Friday, 140 miles north of Alexandria on Egypt's coast. French investigators confirmed on Saturday that smoke was detected in "multiple places" on board the doomed jetliner in the minutes before it crashed, likely indicating "the start of a fire."

Reports have also emerged that search crews have found the black boxes from the plane, though that has yet to be confirmed.

New York Times: Ominous graffiti was scribbled on the bottom of the crashed EgyptAir flight - Business Insider

"It looks like the right front and side window were blown out, most probably from inside out," said the pilot, who flies an A330 similar to the crashed A320 and spoke on condition of anonymity.

Yes, I'll bet he spoke on condition of anonymity.

The rubbish coming from so called "experts" in this is almost as appalling as the quality of journalism.

^ Like the ^^"ominous graffiti".....discovered two years ago.

French investigators confirmed on Saturday that smoke was detected in "multiple places" on board the doomed jetliner in the minutes before it crashed, likely indicating "the start of a fire."

If it was in "multiple places" I'd suggest that it "likely indicated" the "middle of a fire".

Evan Booth bought all of the stuff he needed to make this "shotgun" / bomb in the shops in departures after he had gone through airport security. It could be scaled up, but even as it is, it could penetrate the walls of an airplane.

you dont even need that.

a bottle of duty free vodka, a rag and a cigarette lighter and you have a molotov cocktail.

or just break the bottle and you have shards of glass as dangerous as any knife.

eau de cologne, often found in the toilets along with the after shave, is extremely inflammable too.

Fears Mount Over European Air Security

ROME—
Security at European airports is coming under urgent scrutiny as mystery continues to surround the cause of the EgyptAir crash. While it isn’t clear what caused Flight 804 to drop out of the sky and smash into the Mediterranean, the history of security lapses at all the airports the plane visited that day is heightening suspicions terrorism was behind the crash.

Aviation experts also note there was no distress broadcast by the pilot while the plane was twisting and veering, which is adding to the suspicions of a terrorist plot just two months after deadly attacks at Belgium’s Zaventem airport.

The Zaventem attacks were carried out on the ground, in a passenger terminal, but if Flight 804 was brought down by a bomb, aviation experts and government officials say the most likely explanation is that a device was put on board by a worker at one of the four airports the plane visited that day.

Terrorism is not the only possible cause for the crash. Aviation experts caution that a catastrophic mechanical failure or pilot error could have brought down the airliner.

While there can be no definitive explanation of what happened until the cockpit voice-recorder is recovered from the Mediterranean Sea — and that could take weeks, or even months — European security officials are not wasting time.

At Paris Charles de Gaulle airport, where the Airbus 320 took off for its final journey, security arrangements are already under review with attention being focused on the nearly 90,000 airport staff, including baggage handlers and aircraft ground crew.

The EgyptAir jet was on its fifth flight of the day. Before departing for Cairo, it had already flown from Asmara in Eritrea to Egypt and from Cairo to Tunis and back before its final, fateful takeoff from Paris. Investigators are reviewing security arrangements at the stops made by the plane in the hours before the disaster.

Aviation security analyst Chaim Koppel of International Security Defense Systems in Dallas, Texas, says nowadays it would be easier for airport employees to get a bomb on board a commercial jet than to use passengers, who go through far more stringent checks when entering departure lounges. “The most vulnerable part of our aviation security system is the screening of employees. Physical screening of employees, that’s where emphasis and money should go,” he argues.

Charles de Gaulle, the busiest airport in continental Europe, already routinely re-screens its employees. France’s transport minister, Alain Vidalies, insisted Friday that security was already tight before this week's disaster in the air.

Since January 2015, more than 60 staff have had their access to secure areas at Paris’ two main international airports revoked, because of possible “links to Islamic extremism.” The thought that Charles de Gaulle could have been the place where an explosive device was smuggled aboard a plane is a nightmare scenario for aviation experts.

Parallels are bringing drawn with last October’s downing of a Russian Metrojet Airbus by jihadists shortly after it took off from Egypt’s Sharm el-Sheikh airport, where tourists complained security was lax. The Islamic State group claimed it placed explosives disguised as a soft-drink can on the jet, and most experts believe the terrorists used ground crew to sneak the device on board.

After that attack, aviation security expert Philip Baum said, “Identifying ‘bad eggs’ is no easy task,” especially since airport employees often are “low-paid, transient workers.”

“A perfect system does not exist,” said Sylvain Prevost, trainer in air transport security for the ASTC (Aviation Security Training Center). “The question today is: if something did happen at Charles de Gaulle, then there must have been people colluding in it, because now it’s extremely difficult to penetrate airport security.”

British travel writer Simon Calder says, if it turns out that an explosive device was smuggled abioard EgyptAir's A320 Airbus in Paris, “Airline passengers' faith in global aviation would be shaken.”

Some European security officials admit privately that they are hoping, if the downing of the EgyptAir plane was caused by an act of terrorism, it involved a device smuggled on board while the airliner was at airports in North Africa or the Horn of Africa, and not Paris, an airport that is meant to be one of the most secure in the world.

That would be no consolation for the relatives of the 66 killed, nor would it lessen the security challenges facing the global aviation industry. It would mean the terrorists had confidence that a sophisticated timing mechanism could detonate explosives after multiple takeoffs and landings - in this case, after the jet's final flight toward Cairo.

Questions would turn also to how security can be improved in Africa and what new procedures should be introduced for checking passenger jets on the ground after they have flown in from other countries, European or otherwise. Flight and cabin crews are meant to check their aircraft visually between flights, but that may have to change to a system of more stringent inspections.

That would have ripple effects for airlines, especially the low-cost carriers that cut costs and fares by arranging fast airport turnarounds for their planes.

Fears Mount Over European Air Security

Originally Posted by Neverna

It's noticeable that no terrorist group has claimed responsibility for it (as far as I know).

And its quite noticeable too which Religious group is suspected of having a hand in it .

Friggin' evangelists, Piwanoi...those were my thoughts exactly...

If indeed "vetted" airline employees had a hand in this it would be a rueful day indeed for the industry.
(I'm leaning this direction if not a mechanical or hydraulic malfunction.)

I'm sincerely hoping it wasn't another pilot with a distraught psychological dilemma.

RIP to those on board.

EgyptAir flight MS804 pilot spoke with air traffic control 'for several minutes before crash'


Account directly contradicts the official claim that there was no distress call
The pilot of the doomed EgyptAir flight spoke to air traffic control in Egypt for several minutes just before the plane crashed, a French television station has claimed.

M6 said that the pilot told Cairo control about the smoke which had engulfed parts of the aircraft and decided to make an emergency descent to try to clear the fumes.

M6’s story, quoting unnamed French aviation officials, was not confirmed by the French air accident investigation agency, the BEA.
No such information had been passed by the Egyptian authorities to three BEA investigators who had flown to Cairo to take part in the official inquiry, the agency said.

M6 said that the pilot of the Egyptair A320 had "a conversation several minutes long" with Cairo air traffic control after the plane ran into difficulties in the early hours of Thursday morning.

As a result of the conversation, the pilot decided to make an “emergency descent”, depressurising the cabin, in an attempt to clear smoke fumes which had invaded the front of the aircraft.



Just after the Paris-Cairo flight vanished on Thursday, there were contradictory claims about distress calls or signals. An airline spokesman initially said that there had been a distress call from the airbus. This statement was denied by the Egyptian military and withdrawn by EgyptAir.
The claims follow reports of leaked flight data showing trouble in the cockpit and smoke in a plane lavatory just before the plane crashed.

Officials have cautioned it's still too early to say what happened to the aircraft, but mounting evidence points to a sudden, dramatic catastrophe that led to its crash into the eastern Mediterranean.

"If they lost the aircraft within three minutes that's very, very quick," said aviation security expert Philip Baum. "They were dealing with an extremely serious incident."

Authorities say the plane lurched left, then right, spun all the way around and plummeted 38,000 feet (11,582 meters) into the sea — never issuing a distress call.



Flight 804 left from Paris' Charles de Gaulle Airport on Wednesday night en route to Cairo with 66 people aboard. The first available audio fro, m the doomed flight indicates that all was routine as the pilot checked in with air traffic controllers in Zurich, Switzerland, around midnight before being handed over to Italian air traffic controllers in Padua (Padova): Pilot — "This is 0-7-2-5 Padova control. (Unintelligible) 8-0-4. Thank you so much. Good day er good night."

The communication, taken from liveatc.net which provides live air traffic control broadcasts from around the world, occurred about 2 hours before Greek air traffic controllers lost contact with the plane.

Greek officials say at 2:24 a.m. local time the flight entered the Athens sector of Greek airspace. Twenty-four minutes later, controllers chatted with the pilot, who appeared to be in good spirits.
In Greek, the pilot quipped: "Thank you."

At 3:12 a.m., the plane passed over the Greek island of Kasos before heading into the eastern Mediterranean, according to flight data maintained by FlightRadar24.

Less than 15 minutes later, about midway between Greece and Egypt, a sensor detected smoke in a lavatory and a fault in two of the plane's cockpit windows, according to leaked flight data published by The Aviation Herald.

Messages like these "generally mean the start of a fire," said Sebastien Barthe, a spokesman for France's air accident investigation agency. But he warned against inferring too much more from the reading. "Everything else is pure conjecture."

At 3:27 a.m. Greek time, air traffic controllers in Athens attempted to contact the plane to hand over monitoring of the flight from Greek to Egyptian authorities, according to Greek officials. There was no response from the plane despite repeated calls, including on the emergency frequency. At the same time, a sensor detected that smoke had reached the aircraft's avionics, the network of computers and wires that control the plane, according to the leaked flight data.
EgyptAir flight MS804 pilot spoke with air traffic control 'for several minutes before crash' | Africa | News | The Independent

The Egyptian Tourist trade was already on its knee's before as a result of Islamic terrorism , whoever is deemed responsible at the end of the day ,the end result will be the same ,Egyptian tourism sinking deeper in the mire .The link ,one of many says it all http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=75170

Originally Posted by ENT

An airline spokesman initially said that there had been a distress call from the airbus. This statement was denied by the Egyptian military and withdrawn by EgyptAir.
The claims follow reports of leaked flight data showing trouble in the cockpit and smoke in a plane lavatory just before the plane crashed.

^^ The Egyptian Government seems about as reliable and truthful as the Malaysians were, Egypt still denies the 1999 Egyptair crash was a pilot suicide.

Mid-eastern and other, South and SE Asian 'cultures' have lying down to a fine art, with published guidelines on how and when to lie, so the truth of the matter mustn't be expected to surface in a hurry.