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  1. #1
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    France debates Jewish skullcap after knife attack



    Calls for French Jews to leave their skullcaps at home in the wake of a jihadist attack on a kippa-wearing teacher sparked an emotional debate Wednesday pitting security concerns against a desire to uphold Jewish identity.

    Parents in the southern city of Marseille, where Monday's vicious attack "in the name of Allah" added to a string of anti-Semitic incidents in recent months, have begun urging their sons to wear a baseball cap instead.

    The city's top Jewish leader, Zvi Ammar, had on Tuesday called on Jewish men and boys to stop wearing the kippa "until better days", saying: "Unfortunately for us, we are targeted. As soon as we are identified as Jewish we can be assaulted and even risk death."

    Chillingly, Monday's teenaged assailant, a self-radicalised ethnic Kurd from Turkey, reportedly told police he was "ashamed" that he did not manage to kill his 35-year-old victim, Benjamin Amsellem.

    On Wednesday, government spokesman Stephane Le Foll declined to voice an opinion on the kippa, saying it was a "debate that originated within the Jewish community".

    He stressed however that the state's role is to "provide protection and to denounce anti-Semitic acts."

    Anti-Semitism "unfortunately has gone on for too long and has taken new forms today", he added on French television.

    But several ministers and other politicians spoke out on the issue, with Education Minister Najat Vallaud-Belkacem voicing surprise over Ammar's urging, saying: "It's certainly not the advice I would give, personally."

    Ammar "clearly was well-intentioned, but it's not the sort of message to send, certainly not now," Vallaud-Belkacem told French radio.

    Brice Hortefeux of the centre-right Republicans party agreed with France's chief rabbi Haim Korsiathat that "giving up (the kippa) is giving in". But he said it was impossible "not to modify your behaviour in the face of these unspeakable acts."

    On Tuesday, top national Jewish leaders rejected the call to shun the kippa, decrying a "defeatist attitude" and an offence to the community's identity.

    Korsithat reacted quickly late Tuesday, acknowledging that Ammar's call came from an "understandable emotion", but insisting: "We should not give an inch."

    Joel Mergui, president of France's Israelite Central Consistory, said: "If we have to give up wearing any distinctive sign of our identity, it clearly would raise the question of our future in France."

    Anti-Semitic acts in France have soared in recent years, increasing by 84 percent in the period between January 2015 and May 2015 compared to a year earlier, according to official statistics.

    As a result, emigration from France to Israel has spiked, with a record 7,900 people leaving last year.

    - 'A pit in my stomach' -

    Monday's assault came just days after France marked a year since the attacks that left 17 people dead, including four gunned down in a Jewish supermarket.

    It was just four days after a jihadist attack on a police station in Paris, one year to the day since the massacre at the satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo.

    Marseille is particularly on edge following assaults on three Jews in October, one by a drunken assailant with a knife near a synagogue.

    In November, another Jewish teacher was stabbed by people shouting anti-Semitic obscenities and support for the Islamic State group.

    "When I drop my children off at school, I have a pit in my stomach," a 43-year-old Jewish mother said in Marseille, adding that she had asked her 14-year-old son to take off his kippa.

    Marseille, a city of more than 850,000 people, has France's second largest Jewish community with some 70,000 residents, and one of the country's largest Muslim populations, estimated at 220,000.

    France's overall Jewish community is estimated at between 500,000 and 600,000 people, the largest in Europe and one of the largest in the world.

    France debates Jewish skullcap after knife attack

  2. #2
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    Religion is like masturbation and should be kept secret, anybody who shows his stupid believes must be ready to face the consequences..

  3. #3
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Mann
    have begun urging their sons to wear a baseball cap instead
    eh - then they will likely be mistaken for americans

  4. #4
    Balls to Monty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Mann
    Calls for French Jews to leave their skullcaps at home in the wake of a jihadist attack on a kippa-wearing teacher sparked an emotional debate Wednesday pitting security concerns against a desire to uphold Jewish identity.
    Jewish identity can fuck off.

    Who wants to know whether some cont getting along the street is a jew or not? (well apart from a jihadist with a knife)

    Keep your skullcap in your synagogue locker.

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    It's snowing up here so I will continue to wear my skullcap until my turban comes back from the cleaners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Mann
    Unfortunately for us, we are targeted.
    Yes, unfortunately- but why doesn't the Jewish diaspora become more proactive in sorting out the situation with the occupation of Palestine? For a start, stop financing it.

    Or continue with the Denial ("it's nothing to do with Palestine!" Just antisemitism"). And wear baseball caps (backwards of course), like street punks from American ghetto's.
    probes Aliens

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    Alot these so called spikes in Anti Semitic attacks are proven to be nothing more than negative opinion on Israeli policy against the Palestinians, or overheard whispering in public.
    Zionist Bullshit most of the time. Always the victims, the biggest and the best, nobody suffers more than us bla bla bla..
    Last edited by HarryMaskers; 14-01-2016 at 09:23 PM.

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    Burkas, turbans , white robes, rastafarian tri-colours , rosary beads, orange robes or the Holy Pontiffs skull cap , it really doesn't matter.

    Waiting outside places of worship one can easily figure out another persons religious identity.

    In the States the Crips and the Bloods attacked anyone wearing the opposing colors, whether blue or red. Some real intelligent folks they were.

    Why shouldn't someone be allowed to wear whatever they want or want to identify with ?

    Why shouldn't someone be allowed to practice their belief system if they're not infringing on anyone else's belief or non-belief system ?
    (Heck, there are still some that wear KISS T-shirts and ManU gear , go figure.)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Mann
    Calls for French Jews to leave their skullcaps at home in the wake of a jihadist attack on a kippa-wearing teacher sparked an emotional debate Wednesday pitting security concerns against a desire to uphold Jewish identity.
    Jewish identity can fuck off.

    Who wants to know whether some cont getting along the street is a jew or not? (well apart from a jihadist with a knife)

    Keep your skullcap in your synagogue locker.
    Fuck off you cross dressing nazi

  10. #10
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    ^^ A perfectly reasonable post. But I would no more walk into a mosque wearing a skull cap, than I would into a synagogue wearing a muzzie cap. Or into a Celtic bar, wearing a Rangers T shirt.

    Dumb people get heated up about these things, and violence/ GBH can ensue. Self preservation is the nature of my game.

  11. #11
    Balls to Monty
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
    Why shouldn't someone be allowed to wear whatever they want or want to identify with ?
    Because we are in the business of trying to forge the society of the future and superstitious beliefs such as fairies, witches and religion will ultimately be phased out.

    One of the first steps on that road of progress is getting folk to understand that their religious beliefs are private and should not be advertised in public through clothing or other visual means.

    Society should be conditioned to view religion negatively like smoking.

    If religious clothing were banned in public then it would reduce the social friction caused by the tribalism endemic to the mental illness of religious belief.

  12. #12
    I am in Jail
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    Quote Originally Posted by thailanddogerator View Post
    Religion is like masturbation and should be kept secret, anybody who shows his stupid believes must be ready to face the consequences..
    I guess that justifies violence and disrespect for life.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
    Why shouldn't someone be allowed to wear whatever they want or want to identify with ?
    Because we are in the business of trying to forge the society of the future and superstitious beliefs such as fairies, witches and religion will ultimately be phased out.

    One of the first steps on that road of progress is getting folk to understand that their religious beliefs are private and should not be advertised in public through clothing or other visual means.

    Society should be conditioned to view religion negatively like smoking.

    If religious clothing were banned in public then it would reduce the social friction caused by the tribalism endemic to the mental illness of religious belief.
    Seig hiel Looper.
    No religious holidays, no political affiliations, no nationial football tournaments, competition or flags , no ethnic or cultural displays , et al ...
    might as well while you're out 'n about setting the gold standard for the future generation.

    On this one you've lost me. Make sure you've got blonde hair and blue eyes, Herr Loop.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    the social friction caused by the tribalism endemic
    Sadly we are a tribal species. Most of what is happening in the world is tribal. Racism is tribalism, Sunni/Shia is for the most part tribalism. You only have to watch nature documentaries about Chimps to see what they get up to when bored.

    Humans as a group want to belong ith like minded humans. Whether it is the Fortuner drivers club or the local place of worship or the ubiquitous Man U.

    This being said bonobos are different so maybe there is a glimmer but I doubt it.
    Better to think inside the pub, than outside the box?
    I apologize if any offence was caused. unless it was intended.
    You people, you think I know feck nothing; I tell you: I know feck all
    Those who cannot change their mind, cannot change anything.

  15. #15
    Balls to Monty
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    Quote Originally Posted by VocalNeal
    No religious holidays
    The holidays can stay (especially Krisbo), it is the beliefs that have to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
    no political affiliations, no nationial football tournaments, competition or flags , no ethnic or cultural displays
    What have these got to do with religion?

    Religion occupies a strange position in current progressive societies. It still gets special tax status and we are encouraged to revere religious beliefs as a virtue of the person that holds them and something sacrosanct from criticism.

    Believing in superstition is not morally visrtuous. Treating all our fellow humans in a morally responsible way is morally virtuous. Religion divides humans into tribes that believe they are special and chosen by god and that people outside their religion are doomed in the afterlife and therefore of less concern. This is a dangerous thing to teach people.

    Overt displays of religious belief should be banned until such times as religion no longer poses a threat to the physical safety of the general population from factional friction and fanaticism. We need to proactively pour cold water on religion until we have doused the flames and embers of damaging beliefs in superstitious nonsense. A good place to start would be outlawing public displays of religious affiliation. We should not be pussyfooting around these psychologically damaged individuals and their dangerous beliefs anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by VocalNeal
    Humans as a group want to belong ith like minded humans.
    They do belong to a like minded group. That group is homo sapiens.

  16. #16
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    Looper, all diversity could be construed as causing conflicts of some sort or another.

    I concur that a religious belief system that causes one to attack another or prey on others is a vast, serious issue.

  17. #17
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    Religion is much more pernicious than general diversity.

    It is not just zealots attacking others that is the problem. It is simply holding a belief that you are going to divine afterlife or some higher destiny while other, lesser mortals' fates will be different. It is a diseased frame of mind with which to view humankind.

    It is a mental health hazard and a poisoning of the human spirit in this great age of globalisation.

    The way forward is to accept that morality comes from the nature of the socially evolved human consciousness and that religious frameworks have simply hijacked that morality and twisted it for their own ends.

  18. #18
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    Three questions: If I wore a skull cap into a pizzeria does that give someone the right to attack me ?
    If I wore a "There is no God" tee-shirt into St Marks Cathedral would that give someone the right to knife me ?
    If I hold a "Ban Automatic Weapon Sales" across the street from a shoppe that sells automatic weapons does that give someone the right to shoot me ?

    In the three examples above who has crossed the line between human interaction and hateful vengeance ?

    Off topic inquiry : in your opinion is atheism a belief or non-belief system ?

  19. #19
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Mann
    Unfortunately for us, we are targeted.
    Yes, unfortunately- but why doesn't the Jewish diaspora become more proactive in sorting out the situation with the occupation of Palestine? For a start, stop financing it.

    Or continue with the Denial ("it's nothing to do with Palestine!" Just antisemitism"). And wear baseball caps (backwards of course), like street punks from American ghetto's.

    A racism religion/ideology like Islam has no room in a democratic society.



    This picture speaks more then a thousand words. You can also exchange the woman and put a European man/women in it.

  20. #20
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    So what of the many million Muslims who do live in a democratic society- are the Infidels?

  21. #21
    Balls to Monty
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
    Three questions: If I wore a skull cap into a pizzeria does that give someone the right to attack me ?
    I think it is ignorant and culturally backward to wear symbols of religion in public but it does not give someone the right to physically attack you.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
    If I wore a "There is no God" tee-shirt into St Marks Cathedral would that give someone the right to knife me ?
    It is especially offensive to wear deliberately antagonistic slogans inside a religious place of worship but it does not give someone the right to physically attack you, although your provocation would be a substantial sentencing mitigation if their physical assault did not involve weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
    If I hold a "Ban Automatic Weapon Sales" across the street from a shoppe that sells automatic weapons does that give someone the right to shoot me ?
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
    In the three examples above who has crossed the line between human interaction and hateful vengeance ?
    Only the 2nd example I would say.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
    Off topic inquiry : in your opinion is atheism a belief or non-belief system ?
    Atheism is not a belief system since belief systems are only belief systems because the evidence is set against their possibly being true or their is no evidence to support them. The evidence is in favour of atheism being true or at least there is no evidence to contradict atheism so it is not a belief system.

  22. #22
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    i agree with everything looper has said on this thread

    carry on

  23. #23
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    So what of the many million Muslims who do live in a democratic society- are the Infidels?
    Ticking Time Bombs ?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    Religion occupies a strange position in current progressive societies. It still gets special tax status and we are encouraged to revere religious beliefs as a virtue of the person that holds them and something sacrosanct from criticism.

    Believing in superstition is not morally visrtuous. Treating all our fellow humans in a morally responsible way is morally virtuous. Religion divides humans into tribes that believe they are special and chosen by god and that people outside their religion are doomed in the afterlife and therefore of less concern. This is a dangerous thing to teach people.

    Overt displays of religious belief should be banned until such times as religion no longer poses a threat to the physical safety of the general population from factional friction and fanaticism. We need to proactively pour cold water on religion until we have doused the flames and embers of damaging beliefs in superstitious nonsense. A good place to start would be outlawing public displays of religious affiliation. We should not be pussyfooting around these psychologically damaged individuals and their dangerous beliefs anymore.
    Agree that religions in general are a major problem and pussyfooting around it is not a good idea, but to ban public displays of it will just increase the 'them against us' mindset and result in a further digging in of heels.

    Religion should be tackled by showing no respect for dearly held idiotic beliefs - respect is earned and religion surely didn't earn any. Mockery is a useful tool.

    Why ban the ridiculous? Just laugh it out of the public space. The only reason it is still there is that it was given 'respect'. There's no point 'debating', that's one humongous failure. You cannot debate the irrational. Mockery is the best tool.

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