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  1. #101
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HermantheGerman
    I think Germany has all rights to claim back the land and sea that our Emperor/Kaiser once had.
    I believe that Germany signed away any claims following their surrender after WWII. You know after slaughtering millions of people.
    For what reasons did you have to mention "slaughtering millions of people" ???
    If you do, then you should mention that your beloved leader Mao Zedong, founder of the People's Republic of China, qualifies as the greatest mass murderer in world history killing over 45million and STILL counting

    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Currently does the German constitution allow for any foreign military action? Do the German people want to go to war again?
    Yes ! Yes !

    ...anymore dumb questions ?

  2. #102
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    When a baby is born on these new chinese islands ,is it a chinese citizen?

  3. #103
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    ^
    It surely depends on the citizenship status of the parents?

  4. #104
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Hanoi Lodges Protests Over Beijing's Deployments in the South China Sea


    Hanoi formally protested China’s reported decision to put an antiaircraft battery on a disputed island in the Paracel chain in the South China Sea telling Beijing that the move threatens “regional peace and security: and violates Vietnam’s sovereignty.

    “These actions seriously infringe Viet Nam's sovereignty over the Paracel Archipelago, threaten the regional peace and stability as well as security, safety and freedom of navigation and overflight in the East Sea,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh said in a statement Friday using Vietnam’s term for the sea.

    “Viet Nam asks China to immediately stop such erroneous actions,” he added.

    The statement said diplomatic notes had been issued to China's embassy in Hanoi and to United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon to protest at Beijing's activities

    Tensions between China and its neighbors have been on the rise since China began building up islands in the waterway with artificial harbors and airport facilities capable of handling military aircraft.

    The Chinese government has offered few details in response to the missile claim, while accusing Western media of "hyping up" the story and saying China has a legitimate right to military facilities on territory it views as its own.

    While many nations have claims to the South China Sea with its busy shipping lanes, teaming fisheries and the likelihood of vast petroleum reserves, the dispute is especially intense between Vietnam and China.

    Woody Island, the largest of the Paracel Islands has been under the control of Beijing since 1956. Although Woody Island is also claimed by Taiwan and Vietnam, in 1974, the then South Vietnamese government suffered a naval loss to China in a battle over the Paracels.

    While reports of the missile battery on Woody Island grabbed international attention China has also constructed a military helicopter base on Duncan Island. Both issues were mentioned in Vietnam’s formal protest.

    Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull also urged claimants to refrain from island-building and militarization in the South China Sea.

    "We urge all claimants in the South China Sea to refrain from any building of islands, any militarization of islands, any land reclamation," Turnbull told reports during a press conference with his New Zealand counterpart John Key in Sydney, according to The Straits Times

    Turnbull said both Australia and New Zealand wanted to see a lowering of tensions as he urged Chinese President Xi Jinping to resolve all disputes in the seas through legal means.

    The Philippines also expressed grave concerns about the reports of missiles being deployed on Woody Island.

    "These developments further erode trust and confidence and aggravate the already tense situation," its Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

    Beijing has been angered by air and sea patrols the United States has conducted near islands China claims. Those have included one by two B-52 strategic bombers in November and by a U.S. Navy destroyer that sailed within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island in the Paracels last month.

    “The deployment of a very sophisticated and lethal air defense system is no doubt in response to US aerial activities and the recent freedom of navigation operational patrol near Triton Island,” said Carl Thayer, a professor at the University of New South Wales in Australia and an expert on the region.

    “China's actions raise the stakes and risks for future US maritime reconnaissance patrols in waters surrounding the Paracels,” he said. “The [Chinese air defense] system could also threaten carrier based planes coming to the assistance of a US Navy warship that was confronted by China during a future freedom of navigation exercise in the Paracels.”

    Hanoi Lodges Protests Over Beijing's Deployments in the South China Sea

  5. #105
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Satellite imagery analysis by geopolitical intelligence firm Stratfor shows probable surface-to-air launcher batteries and associated radar by China on Woody Island in the South China Sea. (Courtesy of Stratfor)


    SEOUL—
    Five years after U.S. President Barack Obama committed to a strategic rebalance to Asia, shifting diplomatic and military resources to the globe’s economic engine, critics say the move was oversold and, so far, it has under delivered.

    At a time when Beijing’s assertive moves to claim territory in the South China Sea draw headlines and worried responses from regional countries, some say China appears to be outmaneuvering its rivals in the race to assert claims over the vast strategic sea.

    “As somebody sitting in the Asia Pacific region and observing the U.S. presence in the Asia Pacific, we’ve only seen glimmers of the rebalance,” said William Choong, a Shangri-La Dialogue senior fellow for Asia-Pacific Security in Singapore.

    For decades, the U.S. Navy has protected key shipping routes in the Pacific.

    The U.S. Navy is still the supreme ocean power, but China has moved to enforce its claims and expand its presence in the South China Sea – without putting its official military forces in the foreground.

    more here Obama?s Asia Pivot Increases US Influence But Fails to Stop China

  6. #106
    Valve Master Latindancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post

    China has moved to enforce its claims and expand its presence in the South China Sea without putting its official military forces in the foreground.
    Cunning devils, these Orientals.

  7. #107
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Beijing Accuses US for Militarizing South China Sea

    BEIJING – China’s Foreign Ministry has accused the US of militarizing the South China Sea, just days after it was revealed that Beijing had deployed surface-to-air missiles on an island in the hotly disputed area.

    Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei told reporters that patrols by US military aircraft and Navy vessels, along with joint exercises involving regional partners were the true reason why concerns were growing over peace and stability.

    “The above actions have escalated tensions in the South China Sea, and that’s the real militarization of the South China Sea,” Hong said.

    US and Taiwanese officials this week confirmed commercial satellite images showing the missiles placed on Woody Island in the disputed Paracel chain.

    China has not denied the appearance of the missiles, but says it is entitled to defend its territory and points to the construction of lighthouses, weather stations and other infrastructure undertaken to provide more “public goods and services to the international community.”

    The deployment follows China’s building of new islands by piling sand atop reefs and then adding airstrips and military installations. The buildup is seen as part of Beijing’s efforts to claim virtually the entire disputed sea and its resources.

    Vietnam, which along with Taiwan also claims the Paracels, issued a diplomatic note to the Chinese Embassy in Hanoi on Friday to demand a stop to what it called “China’s infringement of Vietnam’s sovereignty” over the islands.

    China’s action “have also threatened peace and stability in the region as well as security, safety, and freedom of navigation and aviation,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh told reporters.

    The Philippines, which claims waters and features east of Woody island, on Friday said it was “gravely concerned” by reports of the missile deployments.

    “Such actions negate China’s earlier commitment not to militarize the South China Sea,” the Department of Foreign Affairs said in a statement.

    Although not one of the six governments with claims in the South China Sea, the US says it has a national interest in the region’s stability and freedom of navigation and overflight in and above what are some of the world’s busiest sea lanes.

    Secretary of State John Kerry has suggested that the positioning of missiles and other signs of increasing militarization contradicted a public assurance from Chinese President Xi Jinping when he visited the White House last September.

    Hong’s comments represent China’s attempt to turn that accusation back on Washington, a cause to which it has rallied its entirely state-controlled media outlets.

    China’s “defensive deployment on Yongxing targets external military threats,” the Communist Party newspaper Global Times said in an editorial, using China’s name for Woody Island. “The US is bold about imposing pressure on China, and China must make an appropriate response.”

    Beijing Accuses US for Militarizing South China Sea | Chiang Rai Times English Language Newspaper

  8. #108
    MrG
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit
    BEIJING – China’s Foreign Ministry has accused the US of militarizing the South China Sea, just days after it was revealed that Beijing had deployed surface-to-air missiles on an island in the hotly disputed area.
    That takes some cheek.

  9. #109
    Member Baas Babelaas's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Looper;3210570]
    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh
    In whose court? Who will enforce the decision?
    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh
    Global politics is who has the might, financially and militarily to enforce or bribe it's vasals
    What an utter cock-brain you are.

    The ability to possibly get away with some greedy self-serving territorial shenanigans by taking a calculated risk that maybe no-one will try to stop you militarily does not make it OK to do it.

    Building islands 1000km away from your mainland and 100km offshore from another nation in order to fabricate a spurious claim to maritime territorial control is utter bollix as everyone including you well knows.

    Get your head out of your arse.[/QUOTE

    Hear hear!

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by HermantheGerman
    that your beloved leader Mao Zedong
    No friend of mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by HermantheGerman
    Yes ! Yes !
    Because as you proclaim to be German I suspected you knew the answers. I was hoping for some facts, do you have any links to backup your claims?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrG
    That takes some cheek.
    Which countries government introduced weapons to the area first ? Which country has used either force or the projection of offensive force so far?
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  11. #111
    MrG
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh
    Which countries government introduced weapons to the area first ? Which country has used either force or the projection of offensive force so far?
    China.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh
    Which countries government introduced weapons to the area first ? Which country has used either force or the projection of offensive force so far?
    China.
    When and where?

  13. #113
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    They put up similar photo's from Iraq, then after the attack, said they were phony,
    ??????????????

  14. #114
    MrG
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh
    Which countries government introduced weapons to the area first ? Which country has used either force or the projection of offensive force so far?
    China.
    When and where?
    The moment they started building islands and warned everybody to keep away.
    Read the news. Don't be such a coy little jerk.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrG
    The moment they started building islands and warned everybody to keep away.
    An island made of sand is an offensive weapon? They even put a lighthouse on it, to warn ships of the underlying reef - which was always there. Seems like a service to all seamen.

    As you haven't quoted any previous installation of offensive weapons on islands in the South China Sea, by China, I conclude that the introduction of Ameristani armed aircraft and warships, was another example of them playing pigeon chess, were the first occurrences of offensive weapons into the area.

    "The pigeon knocks over all the pieces, craps on the board, then struts around like it won the game"

    (Scott D. Weitzenhoffer 2005)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mozzbie47
    They put up similar photo's from Iraq, then after the attack, said they were phony, ??????????????
    It's amazing what these satellites can photograph, unless that is it's the Russian army's invasion of Ukraine.

  16. #116
    Totemic Lust User
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh
    An island made of sand is an offensive weapon? They even put a lighthouse on it, to warn ships of the underlying reef - which was always there. Seems like a service to all seamen.
    Are you really this foking dumb you spakker or are you trolling?

    They are using the island to make a spurious claim to territorial control of the waters which are 1000km away from the Chinese mainland and clearly much nearer other nations' coastlines. They are warning other nations to stay away from their 'island' and saying that coming too close is provocation for military conflict.

    Do you think this is reasonable civilised 21st century behaviour for an economic top tier nation?

    Do you support any nation building artificial islands anywhere the like in order to make territorial claims over waterways?

  17. #117
    Valve Master Latindancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post

    Do you think this is reasonable civilised 21st century behaviour for an economic top tier nation?
    It's just par for the course for cvnts like them, who invaded Tibet for the mineral wealth and territory, killing a couple of million people in the process, whilst claiming they had liberated the place.

    What a bunch of atrocious, hypocrital, soulless, self-righteous jerks the Mainland Chinese turned out to be. The stories coming out of that place horrify and utterly anger me.

  18. #118
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    South China Sea: US admiral Joseph Aucoin urges Australia to launch 'freedom of navigation' operation

    One of the most powerful figures in the United States military has called on Australia to follow America's lead by launching "freedom of navigation" naval operationswithin 12 nautical miles of contested islands in the South China Sea.

    The Commander of the US Seventh Fleet, Vice Admiral Joseph P Aucoin, is visiting Australia for high-level talks with defence leaders, with whom he has discussed growing concerns with Beijing's military expansion in the region.
    Speaking to reporters in Sydney, Admiral Aucoin said it would be in the region's "best interests" if Australia and other nations sent warshipswithin 12 nautical miles of disputed territory in the South China Sea.

    Before and after: South China Sea




    See how China is converting reefs to military facilities by building artificial islands in the South China Sea.

    Since October 2015, the US has conducted two freedom of navigation operations in the disputed territory, the most recent involving the guided missile destroyer USS Curtis Wilbur, which came within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island in January.

    "We haven't changed what we're doing, we're pretty much doing what we've done for decades and decades; ensuring that these sea lines of communication remain open," Admiral Aucoin said.

    "And so we've done it, but I really wish it wasn't portrayed as US versus China.

    "Really what we're trying to ensure here is that we're exercising our rights and freedoms under the law of the sea.

    "This shouldn't seem provocative.
    "What we're trying to ensure is that all countries, no matter size or strength, can pursue their interests based on the law of the sea and not have that endangered by some of these actions."


    Photo: Satellite image shows a Chinese missile set-up on the South China Sea's Woody Island. (Supplied: ImageSat International)

    Admiral Aucoin agreed it would be "valuable" for Australia and other nations to conduct operations similar to the US.

    "It's up to those countries, but I think it's in our best interests to make sure that those sea lines remain open, I'll leave it at that," he said.

    Last week Labor's defence spokesman Stephen Conroy also called for the Royal Australian Navy to test Beijing's claims in the South China Sea by going within 12 nautical miles of contested islands.

    Defence Minister Marise Payne would not comment publicly on the specific details of ADF activities, but said Australia supported each country's rights to freedom of navigation.

    "As Vice Admiral Joseph Aucoin said, freedom of navigation exercises are a matter for each individual country," the statement said.

    "The Australian Government supports the rights of all states to exercise freedom of navigation and freedom of overflight under international law.
    "As we do now, and have done for many years, Australian vessels and aircraft will continue to exercise rights under international law to freedom of navigation and freedom of overflight, including in the South China Sea.

    Vietnam, China, Malaysia have eyes on the prize

    Explore the conflicting territorial claims in the South China Sea





    South China Sea: US admiral Joseph Aucoin urges Australia to launch 'freedom of navigation' operation - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    Good idea. Get it right up these cheeky chinky conts.

    But where are Vietnam, Phils, Malaysia and the rest of them?

    We need to do weekly sails past and anchor up and do a spot of fishing, but don't just leave it up the west as usual. Everybody needs to get involved.

    These chink coonts need a rocket up their cheeky monkey arses.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    They are using the island to make a spurious claim
    You really do need to look at the information again and stop repeating shit.

    The Chinese have "claimed" the South China Sea for centuries as well as receiving tribute from the surrounding countries, but were not able to do anything about them recently . Unfortunately they were promised, by the "Great Powers" in various legal documents/declaration of peace etc. their return, but the promises from the "Great Powers" were as usual smoke and mirrors.

    They are not "using the islands" to back their claim, they are using their claim to develop their islands.

    As China does, it waits for the aggressor nation to weaken, which they have. It is now able to project and defend it's territorial claims.



    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    saying that coming too close is provocation for military conflict.
    You have obviously never approached the shore line, by sea or air, of a foreign country without gaining permission, you have obviously never approached a warship either at sea or in a port.

    Try it and see the reaction of the country or warship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    this is reasonable civilised 21st century behaviour
    There is a lot of barbaric "21st century behavior" that "civilised" countries leaders use around the world today. I would suggest developing an Island, legally owned by China, does not fit into the barbaric category.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    Do you support any nation building artificial islands
    Many countries build islands all around the world, some even within, what China claims, as it's sovereign territory. Has China gone to war with these countries, have they placed sanctions on them, have they "bombed them back to the stone age" No they have turned a blind eye to an insignificant pin prick and continue to invest and trade with them.

    However the Ameristan government has decided to "raise the temperature" in yet another land 1,000s of miles from it's shores and try and enlist some vassals to engage the enemy. These vassals should look at how Ameristan treats it's vassals, whenever they become irrelevant, e.g terrorist groups,Turkey and Saudi in the Syrian war for one current
    example.

    One should inquire as to why Ameristan needs to be at war around the world CONTINUOUSLY(since 1684 or whenever it was formed).
    Last edited by OhOh; 23-02-2016 at 10:26 AM.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh
    They are not "using the islands" to back their claim, they are using their claim to develop their islands.
    You are the most cretinous cock-brain ever to try and argue a political case.

    There is no legitimate basis for its territorial claims. They controlled the sea many centuries ago. For many centuries they have not controlled the sea. In relatively recent times we have developed maritime laws that determine what sea lies within a country's control. China has no legitimate claim to this sea under those laws. They are manufacturing 'islands' in order to fabricate the claim. That is the wrong way round. You can only manufacture island's in sea that you already have legitimate control over.

    Either you already knew that and you are trolling or you are an utter bell-end brain.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    Quote: Originally Posted by OhOh They are not "using the islands" to back their claim, they are using their claim to develop their islands. You are the most cretinous cock-brain ever to try and argue a political case. There is no legitimate basis for its territorial claims. They controlled the sea many centuries ago. For many centuries they have not controlled the sea. In relatively recent times we have developed maritime laws that determine what sea lies within a country's control. China has no legitimate claim to this sea under those laws. They are manufacturing 'islands' in order to fabricate the claim. That is the wrong way round. You can only manufacture island's in sea that you already have legitimate control over. Either you already knew that and you are trolling or you are an utter bell-end brain.
    see #123
    Last edited by OhOh; 23-02-2016 at 12:03 PM.

  22. #122
    MrG
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh
    The legitimate claim is in the books look it up.
    Since you already have, you say, please provide a link. (Be specific, not something liek the Complete Set Of Maritime Laws Throughout History like I've seen some do here.)

  23. #123
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    Edited to amend please ignore post #121


    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh
    They are not "using the islands" to back their claim, they are using their claim to develop their islands.
    You are the most cretinous cock-brain ever to try and argue a political case.

    There is no legitimate basis for its territorial claims. They controlled the sea many centuries ago. For many centuries they have not controlled the sea. In relatively recent times we have developed maritime laws that determine what sea lies within a country's control. China has no legitimate claim to this sea under those laws. They are manufacturing 'islands' in order to fabricate the claim. That is the wrong way round. You can only manufacture island's in sea that you already have legitimate control over.

    Either you already knew that and you are trolling or you are an utter bell-end brain.
    The legitimate claim is in the books look it up.

    Does the law, of ownership of assets, cease to exist because of time? One instance of island ownership was Hong Kong. The UK "owned" it, in reality, for 99 years, unfortunately it was under a legal lease agreement. Do you really believe the UK would have honoured that law if they believed they could have got away with it?

    Some countries have yes agreed to International Law, in this case UNCLOS, others including Ameristan have not and rely on their "exceptional" status, not the law, UNCLOS, which they have failed to ratify and as such ignore it at their whim.

    China has legitimate claims and as such, as you say, are able to develop them at will.

    One recent example of a dispute concerning maritime law was the Falklands war. The Falklands Islands are some thousands of miles from the "legal" owner, the United Kingdom. They have this claim by removing all that disagreed from the Islands. Establishing their claims by force initially and recently. The Argentinians claimed the islands, they invaded and they were subsequently thrown off, by force. The islands remain, currently, under UK guard.

    Adjacent, relatively, are some other islands, South Georgia and South Sandwich, both "legally" owned by the UK. Does anybody live there? No, but it's still considered to be owned by the UK. Why, because the British "found" them or should I say "put them on their map".

    The legal basis is longstanding ownership, the position of the islands has nothing to do with it's legal ownership. One could also highlight other "legal" claims of far away islands, Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean for one. One could also raise the Vassal states owned lock, stock and barrel by some "exceptional" countries against the will of their population.

    But you don't want to talk of logic and law, just bash on about some new "fear" conjured up by your "leaders".

    Do not start name calling it ruins too many threads and illustrates the futility of your argument.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrG
    Since you already have, you say, please provide a link.
    Here is a Chinese rebuttal of a document outlining and giving references to China's claims. (August 2014)

    http://www.rsis.edu.sg/wp-content/up...08/CO14165.pdf


    Others from the last 70+ years, I hope not to "historical" for Looper?

    "The Cairo Declaration (1943)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration



    "The Three Great Allies are fighting this war to restrain and punish the aggression of Japan. They covet no gain for themselves and have no thought of territorial expansion. It is their purpose that Japan shall be stripped of all the islands in the Pacific which she has seized or occupied since the beginning of the first World War in 1914, and that all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese, such as Manchuria, Formosa, and The Pescadores, shall be restored to the Republic of China"


    The Potsdam Declaration

    "On July 26, 1945, United States President Harry S. Truman, United Kingdom Prime Minister Winston Churchill, and Chairman of the Nationalist Government of China Chiang Kai-shek issued the document, which outlined the terms of surrender for the Empire of Japan as agreed upon at the Potsdam Conference."



    A picture of a Potsdam Conference session including Clement Attlee, Ernest Bevin, Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Molotov, Joseph Stalin, William D. Leahy, Joseph E. Davies, James F. Byrnes, and Harry S. Truman.

    http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/Hi.../Potsdam.shtml

    "The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine."
    Last edited by OhOh; 23-02-2016 at 12:35 PM.

  25. #125
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    ^ Nice try but that doesn't apply to the islands in the South China Sea and there are other nations with claims on them then just Japan.

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