If you were to attend such a meeting you may discover that most of the time is taken with discussion what to place in the final statement.Originally Posted by misskit
Sometimes a consensus is found, by skilful diplomacy or bribery. You are clearly an innocent if you believe that China, is the only country in the world, to either accept or offer bribes to influence the wording of the final statement. But hey you are not alone.
If one was to look at a Guy Fawkes rocket invented centuries ago, one could wish to build a larger one, to take you to the moon, say.Originally Posted by Cujo
Somebody looked at it and decided that given a more powerful fuel it might do it. Others looked at what fuel was available and improved them. Others started from the unguided rocket and looked at how to improve their control the. Ad Infinitum.
All the small or massive improvements now allow rockets to be sent, if they are cheap enough, to anywhere. Technology has improved, making them cheaper through miniaturisation or better software or an Eureka moment. But as we know it's generally a slow grinding process to "Improve" what one has, This innovation has made this example achievable.
For many having an alternative choice rather than to only have one source as in an Ameristani controlled world, is superior.
One wonder what NASA would be able to do if they could reduce costs or rocket weight by 90%.Originally Posted by Looper
It's nothing to do with the Chinese, it's to do with having alternative options. It's to do with trying to understand a different perspective. It's trying to find alternative information sources. As has been shown historically many countries politicians lie to their voters, many financial organisations lie to their investors to the benefit of the top xxx% and their paid lackys the politicians.Originally Posted by Looper
You and some others here seem to suck up every drop of koolaid sent to you by your masters. I don't expect you will change your mind but some, may just pause for a moment, to consider whether or not, their racist comments are entirely justified.
You are ignorant of the facts one again. Try doing due diligence, prior to making a fool of yourself.Originally Posted by Cujo
Siemens, along with other world class trains and systems makers, were invited to bid to sell some train-sets to China. The Siemens negotiating team in China were in negotiations in China and decided, themselves, to refuse the offered contract, due to Chinese clauses in the contracts. Probably handing over technology, IP, ......... Because of this the Siemens team walked away and told head office of the reasons.
Head office overruled them and told them to sign the deal. These things sometimes happen in a global company, if you've worked for one you might understand the frustrations along with enjoying the benefits.
Why, short term profits to bump up the share price as it was close to the end of the quarter and hence quarterly bonuses , maybe, political pressure to the German government maybe, blackmail maybe, bribery maybe, threats to bomb them back to the stone age maybe.
Fear or avarice take your pick.
Sign they did, China got a world class system which it now builds and sells throughout the world. Siemens has another company selling their products, manufactured and possibly "improved" in China, do they get a %, who knows.
But China did not steal anything. Just standard world class business practice as demonstrated by some unexceptional countries business leaders and elected representatives.
You have probably answered your own question yourself, "Chinese who can afford it" many poor fools with more money than sense purchase foreign trophy cars. I did it myself, I had Ferrari for some years. Why because I could. Did I enjoy it, yes. Emphasis on "I", a purely selfish act. As one gets older and wiser one sometimes also gets selfish. One day you may realise this. Fuck who builds it, does it fit my ego/status does it get me the required result?Originally Posted by Cujo
You Thai/component suppliers have never copied or produced fake "branded" items? I thought only sophisticated western countries could invent and produce pukka products. Good to hear Thailand has received the global stamp of approval.Originally Posted by Ratchaburi
Now if they could only stop using cheap slave labour from other Asian countries that makes them profitable, they might be eligible for another ISO award. If the Thais would only stop using banned chemicals ...........
It's a wonder who around the globe actually buys any Chinese products, it surely cant be just suppliers try to con their customers with cheap inferior products.
Last edited by OhOh; 26-07-2016 at 10:20 AM.
A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.
Right, so you agree it's Siemens technology. Not brilliant Chinese innivation inventing the trainSo once again you agree that FOREIGN brands are percieved by the Chinese as superior to Chinese brands.
You have probably answered your own question yourself, "Chinese who can afford it" many poor fools with more money than sense purchase foreign trophy cars. I did it myself, I had Ferrari for some years. Why because I could. Did I enjoy it, yes. Emphasis on "I", a purely selfish act. As one gets older and wiser one sometimes also gets selfish. One day you may realise this. Fuck who builds it, does it fit my ego/status does it get me the required result?Originally Posted by Cujo
I really don't know where you get your ideas from.
Poorer people in other countries are buying Chinese products because they are cheap.
Better off people will always avoid Chinese brands and for a reason.
Oh gee a tech bubble recently popped? What world do you live in?Originally Posted by OhOh
Originally Posted by OhOh
The Chinese accepted an offer of an established world leader in a field of business, yes.Originally Posted by Cujo
The contents of the contract are not known by me or you.
The "improvements" to the product made by China are not know to either me or you.
So no I don't agree that China has not innovated and improved the original Siemens product, do you?
The current offering of the Siemens is available from Siemens directly if one chooses. Unfortunately for some reason Chinese train companies are taking contracts from the Siemens of this world - today. If it's the exact technology why? If it Chinese fake components/software they will be found out. Currently the Chinese systems seem to be working well. Whether that is the original Siemens products I don't know, do you? Whether it's a "brilliant Chinese innovative" offering I don't know, do you.
Maybe China is buying the market to exterminate all competition, it won't be the first country thats used financial muscle to eliminate a foreign competitor.
Of course SOME Chinese, as in every part of the world, desire to appear to be superior. Whether by buying a foreign status symbol and being able to pay, as in Thailand 2 or 3 times the European price, plus the servicing costs. I have no problem with anybody buying what they want from what ever source. Do you?Originally Posted by Cujo
That China now has an indigenous motor industry capable of providing transportation to the masses, as well as the rich, to me is a good thing for the Chinese people or would you prefer them all to be still using rickshaws?
One wonders who the people around the world, those discerning foreigners, are and upon what basis they make their decisions. Quality or price. One wonders who the largest share of Chinese exports are, the developed (rich and educated) or the undeveloped (poor and uneducated)Originally Posted by Cujo
Oh look, it seems the winner of who buys Chinese products is discerning, wealthy and educated people of AMERISTAN!!!!!!!
China Exports | 1983-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast | News
Exports to North America 37,900,586.00 USD THO
Exports to United States 35,250,064.00 USD THO
Exports to European Union 35,169,695.00 USD THO
Exports to ASEAN 26,649,444.00 USD THO
Riiiiight. Not all Americans are discerning, wealthy and educated. Been to Walmart lately.
https://www.google.com/search?q=peop...w=1366&bih=677
They and stores like it sell a lot of Chinese crap.
Doesn't mean to say it's good quality. In fact if I'm looking for quality products Walmart is NOT the place I go.
You really know nothing about the manufacturing industry in China do you.
Ever been to China?
From first hand experience I could give you a list of common practices that occur in Chinese factories that contribute to poor quality, but most of all it's building to price, poor attention to detail and the fact that they couldn't really give a fuck about quality. It's a mindset.
Last edited by Cujo; 26-07-2016 at 03:07 PM.
[QUOTE=OhOh;3316689]Not sure what you're getting at there. Do you mean the Chinese train manufacturers are taking orders from Siemens?Originally Posted by CujoWell if it's Chinese product it's obviously NOT original Siemens product. It's copied from the original Siemens product.Currently the Chinese systems seem to be working well. Whether that is the original Siemens products I don't know,That's right, you don't know so stop talking like you do.do you? Whether it's a "brilliant Chinese innovative" offering I don't know, do you.
Do you know that in china it's possible to buy copies of Siemens, ABB, Schneider etc products built in Chinese factories by Chinese companies and labeled Siemens, ABB, Schneider etc?
The quality of these copy products is atrocious. But how can that be? why would they need to copy products and fake label considering Chinese are such innovative designers and brilliants craftsmen?
Oh that's right, they're not. They're just looking for the shortcuts.
Yes many times, meeting clients with our Chinese office manager and sales team. Seemed decent people. Gave me lots of Trinkets as presents. They bought a lot of our software. The software was dongled/software key protected. No news of rampant copying, not like NATO/US Navy. Polite and wanting better tools to do their job. No different to any other western or Asian client in my book. Just profit for my company, leading, referable companies in China, to help further sales and of course GOLD for me.Originally Posted by Cujo
Most manufacturers know the cost of every operation and can price a job easily. If the machinists etc. try a different approach and takes longer they don't last long, in Birmingham, Bolton or Beijing.Originally Posted by Cujo
Detail and accuracy depends on the operator or NCR control. bad training leads to bad work, good work is encouraged by a bonus system. Easy to implement and monitor.
Of course if the customer has no QA system, buys blind or ignores problems. You know doesn't give a shit because his customers don't know any better, all will take advantage.
It's not nationality it's media hype, when will you admit it?
Admit what?
That Chinese are innovative and build high quality products and the only reason I think otherwise is the nasty western media has misled me??
Hilarious.
Name me a Chinese developed product. One that is in common use. Invented by the Chinese (not 'improved')
What was the last high quality Chinese product you bought?
Compass, gun powder, papermaking, printing, and metal casting. All centuries ahead of Europe.Originally Posted by Cujo
Granted, for various, reasons China has not been inventive in recent times but don't underestimate them. Investment in science and technology is now greater than the entire EU and second only to the US.
Some very bright people plus the investment will yield some amazing results in science and technology. Just a matter of time.
Look at the list by Norton. Aside that, rarely anything is "new" nowadays. It is improvements.Originally Posted by Cujo
I reckon the chinese do have the potential to be world-beaters in industry and innovation. The Japanese were dismissed as masters of the cheap copy until the 70s. 'Made in Japan' was a joke when I was at school. The chinks are regular maths geniuses at school academic level so they are not dim.
But they need to get with the program when it comes to how they conduct themselves on the world stage. Stamping their feet and acting like the regional bully big fish in a small pond (The South China Sea) and making outrageous territorial demands and then ignoring the will of the ICJ is just not good enough and they must be made to pay a high price which should involve some humiliation in front of the rest of the world watching their recent petulant antics.
Necessity the mother of invention.
Labour saving devices have run the gauntlet.
Matie got 2 very nice lamps for his living room, accompanied by a remote.
Think mostly they can only improve what we already have.
Any news about the head transplant ?
How would I know. My last purchase was a Toyota Pickup, any idea as to what components are purchased by Toyota from China? Steel, electronic components, tyres, paint, castings, machined components, wire, paper, plastic mouldings, glass .......... or was it just the plastic stickers which indicate which model it is?Originally Posted by Cujo
Prior to that I bought some tires, made in China, still turning around, gripping the road etc., 1/3 the price of "western tyres", will they last as long, who knows. I did buy some Christmas Tree lights which worked well over last Christmas. I then put them outside under the eaves for our disco nights and a few of the bulbs have gone. Was it the poor manufacturing, the humidity, the sprayed beer, the high speaker volume or the Thai songs? What do you expect for a hundred THB?
Thank you. As in all countries there are bright and there are dumb people. The Chinese have, a selection of both types of people, the time, the financial resources, a plan and plenty of friends. One should read the tea leaves and act accordingly or keep ones head in the sand and hope nobody buggers one senseless.Originally Posted by Norton
It has been the same since the neolithic age. Small improvements meant you survived, then as now.Originally Posted by Takeovers
Hallelujah, a convert to the enlightened few. Thank you, it does take a few moments to out yourself. If they improve at their present rate and don't exclude the many from their plans, life just might get better, for all of the worlds citizens.Originally Posted by Looper
Let's hope the plan is successful.
Which programe would you prefer, words and stamping of feet, i.e. a civilised approach or bombing back to the stone age, the current "I've a bigger club than you and if you don't join my team my buddies will hurt you" the Neanderthal approach?Originally Posted by Looper
We are reaping the reward of the latter now. Maybe it's time to try the other tack.
The ICJ is a non entity, the UN have made a statement saying they have no connection with it, the "judges" were hand picked by a known anti Chinese chairman. It appears to have been another Ameristani attempt at a stitch-up, which failed.
Care to list the countries agreeing with the judgement and those disagreeing?
As for the "humiliation in front of the rest of the world", I see Ameristan has that position locked down already and just cannot seem to rid itself of it.
More good news .
US agrees it's time to 'turn the page' - People's Daily Online
"Both Wang and Kerry attended a range of multilateral meetings of the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations from Sunday to Tuesday.
Kerry told a news conference on Tuesday that "we don't take a position, as I said earlier, on the claimants" in the South China Sea issue. He said the US "would like to see a process of dialogue" between Beijing and Manila.
"I will be leaving to the Philippines this afternoon, meeting with President (Rodrigo) Duterte tomorrow, and I would encourage President Duterte to engage in dialogue and in negotiation," he said."
The royal we and the insignificant words of the "I" speaker.
Good words but, as we know, what Kerry says is inevitably contradicted by other Ameristani "unknown experts/corrupt political appointees/Presidentail Announcement POTUSE" or illegal military actions authorised by them.
I await the announcement by the Philippine and Chinese Presidents of the bilaterally, negotiated, agreement being signed.
Last edited by OhOh; 27-07-2016 at 09:40 AM.
The neanderthal approach is exactly what the chinks are pursuing. Taking part in a mediation process is the civilised way to do it, not grabbing the disputed land by force and ignoring the mediation process. They obvious reason they did not take part in negotiation is that they know as well as everybody else on the planet that their claim is utter bollix and hot air.Originally Posted by OhOh
What brainwashed deranged fuck-muppet you are. You must be on some kind of medication to rant so obsessively and irrationally on this issue page after page.
^^
And anything from the peoples daily propaganda sheet needs to be read through a filter of skepticism.
If you really want an insight into the Chinese mind read their online forum.
NATO , personal involvement. Subject to Official Secrets Act.
US Navy:
US Navy facing $600 million lawsuit for pirating 3D virtual reality software » TechWorm
"US Navy and Piracy! you would never assume the world’s biggest navy to be using a pirated software but apparently, it does. According to a suit filed by German firm Bitmanagement, the US Navy has been allegedly using its 3D virtual reality software on a large number of devices without having sufficient licenses. The software-maker is now suing the government agency for a whopping $600 million."
Naivete your middle name?
Is this acceptable to you, (second paragraph from the bottom):Originally Posted by Cujo
http://www.state.gov/secretary/remar.../07/260475.htm
I'm not suggesting you only view one source of evidence at all, be free look around them all. But please don't restrict yourself to what you are comfortable with.
Step out from your comfort zone and fee the chill wind blowing. Sometimes it awakes the brain.
Past medication:Originally Posted by Looper
Can't remember, bit of a blur.
Current medication:
Nicotine, Caffeine.
Every post is 5g AU, every reply is 1g AU. It all adds up.
Keep your so informative posts coming.
Last edited by OhOh; 27-07-2016 at 11:24 AM.
Let me guess.Originally Posted by OhOh
Lysergic acid diethylamide?
From the recent ASEAN and China meeting held this week in Laos.
"The ASEAN and Chinese Foreign minister statement issued yesterday regarding
THE FULL AND EFFECTIVE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE DECLARATION ON THE CONDUCT OFPARTIES IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA.
http://asean.org/storage/2016/07/Joi...-DOC-FINAL.pdf
REAFFIRMING that the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) is a milestone document that embodies the collective commitment of the Parties to promote peace, stability, mutual trust and confidence in the region,
in accordance with the UN Charter and universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) ;
FINAL
1
JOINT STATEMENT OF THE FOREIGN MINISTERS OF ASEAN MEMBER STATES AND CHINA ON THE FULL AND EFFECTIVE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE DECLARATION ON THE CONDUCT OF PARTIES IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA
We, the Foreign Ministers of ASEAN Member States and the People’s Republic
of China met in Vientiane, Lao People’s Democratic Republic, on 25 July
2016.
RECOGNISING that maintaining peace and stability in the South China Sea
region serves the fundamental interests of ASEAN Member States and China
(“the Parties”) as well as the international community;
REAFFIRMING that the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South
China Sea (DOC) is a milestone document that embodies the collective
commitment of the Parties to promote peace, stability, mutual trust and
confidence in the region, in accordance with the UN Charter and
universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 United Nations
Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS);
REAFFIRMING the importance and role of the DOC in maintaining peace and
stability in the region;
COMMITTED to the full and effective implementation of the DOC in its entirety and
working substantively towards the early adoption of a Code of Conduct in the South China Sea (COC) based on consensus;
RECALLING the Joint Statement of the 15 th ASEAN - China Summit on the 10 th
Anniversary of the DOC adopted in 2012;
HEREBY state the following:
1. The Parties reaffirm their respect for and commitment to the freedom of
navigation in and overflight above the South China Sea is provided for by
the universally recognised principles of international law, including the 1982
UNCLOS.
2. The Parties concerned undertake to resolve their territorial and jurisdictional disputes by peaceful means, without resorting to the threat or use of force, through friendly consultations and negotiations by sovereign states directly concerned, in accordance with universally recognised principles of international law, including the 1982 UNCLOS;
It appears that the ASEAN and China have agreed to solve all the South China Seas by peaceful means, .............., through friendly consultations and negotiations by the directly involved states. In accordance with the universally recognised principles of International law, including 1982 UNCLOS."
A win for China and embarrassing, some might use humiliating defeat for all others. One only hopes they all understood and agree on the meaning of the words "universally recognised principles".
And building airbases on islands short sighted sure to cause legal disputes among countries who claim or have shared economic zone interests. If China was smart for about 10 billion a copy they should build a dozen super carriers which can go anywhere they want. All legal like.Originally Posted by Looper
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