Thread: Pope backs smacking of children 'if dignity maintained'

Originally Posted by thaimeme

And what of random pop psychologists?

I laugh at these idiots. Over time you learn who is who and what they are about and without doubt what erks me most is the fact some fools who know fuck all about taking care of young indigenous children are being paid by Australian Tax payers money to do so. Thank fuck I am not part of that system anymore.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

^
I think I said that awhile back on page 1, no?

Yes you did' I was trying to quote you. Blame my lack of computer skills.

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Originally Posted by ENT

I wouldn't call a slap a gentle reminder.

Try it out on your missus or a pal of yours, or anyone else for that matter, and see what happens.

I generally like your responses mate but this is ridiculous.

I am, and most other parents are referring to young children, not adults who should know better already.

Seems I am wasting my time once again on Teakdoor with multi-nilk idiots who are just taking the piss creating a lot of uneducated bollocks to fill cyberspace.

Dunno who the multi-nicks are that you're referring to.

My views arise from practical experience in raising my own kids and teaching communication skills to disturbed kids, between 4 < 15 yrs old, most of them in care homes or institutions.

All the disturbed kids had previously been traumatized by either or both physical and emotional violence, so further trauma was to be avoided, just to start with.

At no time was any kind of corporal punishment handed out, the worst punishment was time out if the kid became disruptive.

The reasoning being, is that smacking kids is similar to bolting the door after the horse has gone, or treating symptoms of a malaise instead of treating the cause.

The child's disruptive behaviour comes from earlier confusing and frustrating incidents that had been passed over as unimportant experiences that would simply fade away, which they don't.

Getting the child to trust adult and group decision making and guidance again was necessary before the disruptive behaviour decreased, over several weeks, some kids showing marked improvement in positive social skills within even 3-6 weeks, others taking longer to adjust to a non-threatening environment.

All the kids responded well to positive behaviour by the staff and eventually eachother.

School bullying simply didn't exist in such an environment.

^ interesting perspective.

^x2...

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

We all know that scripture interpretations vary. Just look at how the Koran in used by the muslims.

And now the Muslims are using the pope's latest foot in mouth episode to justify C Hebdo killings.

A clip around the ear never did anyone any harm.

Originally Posted by ENT

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Originally Posted by ENT

I wouldn't call a slap a gentle reminder.

Try it out on your missus or a pal of yours, or anyone else for that matter, and see what happens.

I generally like your responses mate but this is ridiculous.

I am, and most other parents are referring to young children, not adults who should know better already.

Seems I am wasting my time once again on Teakdoor with multi-nilk idiots who are just taking the piss creating a lot of uneducated bollocks to fill cyberspace.

Dunno who the multi-nicks are that you're referring to.

My views arise from practical experience in raising my own kids and teaching communication skills to disturbed kids, between 4 < 15 yrs old, most of them in care homes or institutions.

All the disturbed kids had previously been traumatized by either or both physical and emotional violence, so further trauma was to be avoided, just to start with.

At no time was any kind of corporal punishment handed out, the worst punishment was time out if the kid became disruptive.

The reasoning being, is that smacking kids is similar to bolting the door after the horse has gone, or treating symptoms of a malaise instead of treating the cause.

The child's disruptive behaviour comes from earlier confusing and frustrating incidents that had been passed over as unimportant experiences that would simply fade away, which they don't.

Getting the child to trust adult and group decision making and guidance again was necessary before the disruptive behaviour decreased, over several weeks, some kids showing marked improvement in positive social skills within even 3-6 weeks, others taking longer to adjust to a non-threatening environment.

All the kids responded well to positive behaviour by the staff and eventually eachother.

School bullying simply didn't exist in such an environment.

I think most of us would understand and agree with this ENT.....but you are talking about "disturbed" kids in an institution here. Kids that have been subjected to violence of various kinds.

Some kids even manage to survive and turn out OK under such circumstances....others crack and become very disturbed and dysfunctional. Again kids are all different with different tolerance levels and ability to cope with their environment.

Others here (myself included) are talking about kids with normal parents living in a normal home without violence or abuse. Now, somebody (usually Jeff) is going to demand an explanation for the word "normal". My pre-emptive response is that if you have to ask, you will probably not understand the answer....

My two youngest (boy and girl) were about as opposite as you could get. The boy was quiet, well behaved and responsive. He never needed a smack that I can remember.

The girl was very mischievous, disobedient, and a real tom-boy. The only way to get HER attention was by using a high voltage cattle probe...(kidding)..

They both turned out excellent scholastic results and are now both doing very well in their respective professions.....civil engineering and medicine.

Despite a few good smacks, my daughter turned out to be a very nice well rounded young woman who now practices internal medicine in a major Vancouver hospital....and we often have a good laugh about her antics and resulting smacks back in her formative years.

This argument could go on forever if people continue to view it as one extreme or the other....ie no smacks ever, versus violent attacks and trashing.

Only bullies and thugs beat their kids up.....normal parents use little slaps to get the attention of a child that will not pay attention; so they can talk to them and explain why they just got smacked....

^ Watch her turn into the female version of......







http://www.oddee.com/item_98674.aspx

^^ The method works for all children, or adults.

The "normal" American family is rated as around 50%+dysfunctional, thus statistically inclined toward unharmonious conflict resolution.

One factor is that 41% of kids are brought up in single mother homes, where positive male role models are infrequent.

Another factor is the drop in numbers of male early childhood teachers, another PC fwk-up, resulting in lack of male role models in education.

If the term "normal" means the norm in society, then normal society is largely dysfunctional, as are most US families.

The same applies to other societies to a greater or lesser degree.

Originally Posted by ENT

School bullying simply didn't exist in such an environment.

Originally Posted by ENT

The method works for all children, or adults.

I could imagine you in a tweed jacket with leather sleeves, a pair of cordruoys and some hush puppies, sat on a stool in the assembly hall with an acoustic guitar singing this at the top of your voice



while some little cnut with ADHD flicks snot at you

You have a wild imagination, kiddo.

Originally Posted by ENT

^^ The method works for all children, or adults.

The "normal" American family is rated as around 50%+dysfunctional, thus statistically inclined toward unharmonious conflict resolution.

One factor is that 41% of kids are brought up in single mother homes, where positive male role models are infrequent.

Another factor is the drop in numbers of male early childhood teachers, another PC fwk-up, resulting in lack of male role models in education.

If the term "normal" means the norm in society, then normal society is largely dysfunctional, as are most US families.

The same applies to other societies to a greater or lesser degree.

Dysfunctional is a word that would fit 100% of all familys. There is no such thing as a totally functional or perfect family. They all have their challenges and to put a percentage on this is silly. Who defines what a functional family is? I am sure there are many who try, but who says they are right and everyone else is wrong?

Putting percentages on what is dysfuntional is dysfuctional in itself.

Hardly, it's only a classification, not an ego challenge.

Ignoring that aspect of most families is avoiding looking at the causes of social disruption and how they're taught to children firstly at home, then outside of the family.

Ambiguity is the main cause of childhood confusion, causing the child to question an event or fact or situation, often repeatedly. If that confusion is enhanced with a short sharp shock of a smack, the child's frustration is going to increase and he/she's none the wiser, just more resentful and still as curious until that curiosity is finally repressed.

Wow ENT, you almost sound like you know what you are talking about. Unfortunately, I do not believe or subscribe to what you are saying. This is a topic that has no answer because there is no real right or wrong in the matter.

A slap will gain the attention of any child,as it will for any adult as well. Once you have someones undivided attention, they are more apt to listen. When you try to only talk your way through things, all you get is a blank stare.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Wow ENT, you almost sound like you know what you are talking about. Unfortunately, I do not believe or subscribe to what you are saying. This is a topic that has no answer because there is no real right or wrong in the matter.

A slap will gain the attention of any child,as it will for any adult as well. Once you have someones undivided attention, they are more apt to listen. When you try to only talk your way through things, all you get is a blank stare.

I get your point re. a slap for attention, it works for that, but focuses the mind on the slap and its associated cause (if perceived by the recalcitrant kid), but explains nothing as to why the cause is undesirable.

It takes time out by the parent to explain the reasoning for the slap for the kid to understand why, something parents increasingly have no time or will for, apparently.

There's an answer for the dilemma of spank or not, it takes patience and an unblinkered attitude to find, but once arrived upon generates dialogue, the first step in consolidating fractious family factors into a cohesive functional family environment,.....yes functional, with no need for emotional blackmail and punishments.

ENT, I have three sons, two grown and one still being raised by myself and my Thai wife. The two grown sons did receive a slap to gain their attention from time to time and they already knew the reason for the slap. They were not listening or paying attention to what I said. I assure you they did listen after the slap and whether they hate me today for this, I do not know sense they never have said one way or another. Neither spent a night in jail, unlike their father, and both turned out to be productive US citizens. One has his own software company and the other is a mechanical engineer for a large US firm.

The half Thai son is a little different since he is still learning to speak fluent English. I do very little discipline and leave it all to my Thai wife. Does he get smacked by her from time to time? Yes, and he comes crying to me and all I say is that he needs to listen to his mother. He knows from my tone of voice whether he is in trouble or not. Much different than with my other two boys, but if he grows up to own his own business or becomes a professional without winding up in jail, I will be happy.

^ You've raised some great kids.

The child's earliest social interaction is with its mother who inadvertently fwks over the child's mind to her way of thinking and responding as soon as it's born and instinctively heads for the pulse of its mother's heart beat[B] asap,[/B,...] then the tit.

The first maternal reactions as neonate slimes its way across big belly to,

Mama; (wow!!!..boy or girl...= same same me ;;;girl ,....= same same me but different.)............has it got the right number of toes arms legs etc?.......OK....My mm.bblbnmmphhh...or whatever,....and so a child is born, reportedly.

Neonate; " WTF?!!??^&#)!suck, suck,....yahooooo!!"

Mama "That feels good"

Carry on........


What happens after depends on neonate's initial nurturing experience and how the mother deals with it.

Without support, a single mum can't fulfill the total nurturance a child requires to become a competent member of society.

Frustration and inappropriate guidelines ensue as the single mother/parent tries to fulfill both male and female nurturer roles, an impossibility leading to defeatism and a laisez fair attitude towards offsprings' behaviour, resulting sugar intakes ADHD and the rest of it fed by supplements of vid adrenalin booster crap.

The developing kid is subject to maternal guidelines first, then in this day and age in western society, a decline in positive male role modelling across the board, at home, in education and in government and religion.

Dysfunctinalism in society will persist if a better male/female social balance is not harmonized, and it's based on security and survival factors.

A fully functional family unit (usually) comprises of two adults, male and female and a number of offspring, all in a bonded social harmony designed for both individual and group well being.

Once competitiveness for diminishing resources overcomes cooperative self/group sustenance, barter and bargain, enticement, subterfuge arise,....and ensuing conflict.

So too with parent-child conflict, it's one of diminishing resources, as the snapper first learns, along with the mother,...on the tit.

^
So how do children of a same sex marriage turn out?

Children with two male figures as parents?

Children with two female figures as parents?

Feck off your eminence.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

^
So how do children of a same sex marriage turn out?

Children with two male figures as parents?

Children with two female figures as parents?

Not very well.

I would think not.

Anyone know what is the holy fathers opinion on spanking the monkey? Still going to hell, yes.

If he can spank his male secretary for insulting his mother, the pope can spank any ol' monkey he pleases, as can his followers, it seems.