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  1. #1
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    International Criminal Court starts investigating Israeli War Crimes

    ICC opens examination of Israeli-Palestinian conflict | Reuters

    ICC opens examination of Israeli-Palestinian conflict

    Palestinians warm themselves by a fire as they sit in a makeshift shelter outside their house, which witnesses said was destroyed by Israeli shelling during a 50-day war last summer, on a stormy day in the east of Gaza City January 8, 2015

    (Reuters) - The International Criminal Court has launched an inquiry into possible war crimes in the Palestinian territories, opening a path to possible charges against Israelis or Palestinians.

    In a statement on Friday, prosecutors said they would examine "in full independence and impartiality" crimes that may have occurred since June 13 last year. This allows the court to delve into the war between Israel and Hamas militants in Gaza in July-August 2014 during which more than 2,100 Palestinians and 73 Israelis were killed.

    The U.S. State Department said it strongly disagreed with the move. The United States has argued that Palestine is not a state and therefore not eligible to join the ICC.

    "We strongly disagree with the ICC prosecutor's action," spokesman Jeff Rathke said in a statement late on Friday. "The place to resolve the differences between the parties is through direct negotiation, not unilateral actions by either side."

    U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has confirmed the Palestinians - whose peace talks with Israel have collapsed - will formally become an ICC member on April 1 at their request, a move strongly opposed by Israel and the United States.

    "The case is now in the hands of the court," said Nabil Abuznaid, head of the Palestinian delegation in The Hague. "It is a legal matter now and we have faith in the court system."

    Prosecutors will assess evidence of alleged crimes and determine if they are of sufficient gravity and scale to warrant charges against individuals on either side.

    The examination was branded as "an outrage" by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

    “Israel completely rejects the ICC prosecutor’s announcement about opening a preliminary examination on the basis of the outrageous request by the Palestinian Authority," he said in a written statement.

    "The Palestinian Authority is not a country and therefore it is not the court’s place, also according to its own rules, to carry out an examination like this.”

    The ICC has been criticised for focusing on atrocities in Africa and being unable to successfully prosecute cases linked to the world's most intractable conflicts.

    An initial inquiry could lead to war crimes charges against Israel, whether relating to the recent Gaza war or its 47-year-long occupation of the West Bank. It also occupied Gaza from 1967-2005. Palestinians seek statehood in the two territories.

    ICC membership also exposes the Palestinians to prosecution, possibly for rocket attacks on Israel by militant groups operating out of Gaza.

    The ICC, the world's first permanent war crimes tribunal, is the court of last resort for its 122 member states, aiming to hold the powerful accountable for the most heinous crimes when national authorities are unable or unwilling to act.

    But the ICC has struggled over its first decade, completing just three cases and securing two convictions. Critics say it has been vulnerable to political pressure and opposition from non-members the United States, China and Russia.
    Dare say they will only file charges against Palestine at the end of the day.

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    International Criminal Court, indeed.

    We know who pulls their strings.
    Going through the motion for the good image.

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    pseudolus, I dare say they won't.
    There is no Hamas leader they can pin the blame on who resides in Gaza whenever attacks were made on their neighbors.

    No worries as it won't be long before IS gets its act together in the Sinai or Turkey pushes through some more RPGs. That kettle is still being kept at boil.

    Very sad situation that really has nothing to do with religious sensitivities. (IMO)

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    When will Palestinians learn?

    The great Robert Fisk.

    Fisky points out the obvious hypocricy being shown by the Israel/US axis, but nothing new there.
    "one might have thought that membership of so august a judicial body would have done a lot to persuade the world that Palestinians were ready to shoulder all the burdens of statehood.... After all, the Palestinians would indeed have to abide by international law and – if the law applied retrospectively – they would have to carry the burden of opprobrium themselves for both Hamas crimes and past PLO murders. The United States, of course – and this fact oddly did not feature in the flurry of news reports on “Palestine’s” request to join – has itself refused to join the International Criminal Court. And with good reason"

    Indeed, but the facts being deliberately created on the ground by Israel with it's illegal military occupation and creeping colonisation of Palestine, foretell a different outcome. A one state solution, or binational greater Israel with Palestinian and Israeli citizens. I won't say the two state solution is necessarily dead in the water- it remains quite achievable- but it is foundering, because the schizoid Israeli population and diaspora (which consistently prefers a two state solution over the combined state), just cannot get their act together. Basically, I think the 'Dream' is all but dead. Of course, then you have the outlandish Dreamers- "drive the Palestinians into the sea" (yeh right), or "Israel will be destroyed in an inferno" (cough). Dream on.



    When will Palestinians learn? Turning to international law isn't the answer — just ask America and Israel


    If Palestine's request is 'entirely counterproductive', what does that make Israel's slaughtering of civilians last summer?



    Throw an old dog a bone and sure enough, he’ll go chasing after it. So it is with “Palestine’s” request to join the International Criminal Court. An obvious attempt by Mahmoud Abbas to try Israel for war crimes in Gaza this year, we are told.

    Or maybe a “two-edged sword” – yawns are permitted for such clichés – which could also put Hamas “in the dock”. Israel was outraged. The US was “strongly opposed” to such a dastardly request by the elderly potentate who thinks he rules a state which doesn’t even exist.

    But hold on a moment. That isn’t the story, is it? Surely the real narrative is totally different. The BBC didn’t get this. Nor CNN. Nor even Al Jazeera. But surely the most significant event of all is that the descendants of the PLO – excoriated only a quarter of a century ago as the most dangerous “terrorist” organisation in the world, its mendacious leader Yasser Arafat branded “our Bin Laden” by Israel’s mendacious leader Ariel Sharon – actually wants TO ABIDE BY INTERNATIONAL LAW!

    Heavens preserve us from such a thought, but these chappies – after all their past calls for Israel’s extinction, after all the suicide bombings and intifadas – are asking to join one of the most prestigious judicial bodies on earth. For years, the Palestinians have demanded justice. They went to the international court in The Hague to have Israel’s apartheid wall dismantled – they even won, and Israel didn’t give a hoot. Any sane Palestinian, you might think, would long ago have turned his or her back on such peaceful initiatives.


    Yet still these wretched Palestinians persist, after this most humiliating of insults, in resorting to international law to resolve their conflict with Israel. Here they go again, dutifully seeking membership of the International Criminal Court. Will these Arabs never learn?

    And of course, the Americans are threatening to punish such effrontery. Stop those millions of dollars in aid to the Palestinians. Stand by Israel’s refusal to accept any such approach to the International Criminal Court by “Palestine”. The EU – especially Britain and France – have gone along with this tosh. Israel has already decided to stop more than £80m in tax owed to the Palestinian authority.


    The US State Department’s spokesman told us that his government is “deeply troubled” by the Palestinian application. It is “entirely counterproductive”, he informed the world. It does “nothing to further the aspirations of the Palestinian people for a sovereign state” – though one might have thought that membership of so august a judicial body would have done a lot to persuade the world that Palestinians were ready to shoulder all the burdens of statehood.


    After all, the Palestinians would indeed have to abide by international law and – if the law applied retrospectively – they would have to carry the burden of opprobrium themselves for both Hamas crimes and past PLO murders. The United States, of course – and this fact oddly did not feature in the flurry of news reports on “Palestine’s” request to join – has itself refused to join the International Criminal Court. And with good reason; because, like the Israelis – although this is not quite how the whole fandango was explained to us – Washington is also worried that its soldiers and government officials will be arraigned for war crimes. Think waterboarding, Abu Ghraib, the report on CIA torture…

    No wonder Jeffrey Rathke, the windbag who speaks for the State Department, says that the Palestinian request “badly damages the atmosphere” with Israel, “undermines trust” and “creates doubts about their (Palestinian) commitment to a negotiated peace”. And remember, Abbas only made his request after America had voted against – it has previously used its veto more than 40 times on Israel’s behalf to reject Palestine’s self-determination since 1975 – a UN Security Council resolution to end Israel’s occupation of Palestinian land by 2017.

    But of course, what this whole kerfuffle is really about is quite simple. The world is tired of witnessing the suffering of Palestinians. Those with an ounce of human sympathy are sickened at being slandered as anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist (whatever that is) every time they express their outrage at Israel’s cruelty towards the Palestinians.
    Killing more than 2,000 Palestinians last summer, hundreds of them children, was a mass slaughter. We’ve watched this grotesquerie so many times now – in Gaza, for the most part – that even our statistics have become spattered with blood.

    Who now recalls the fatalities of the 2008-9 Gaza war? One thousand four hundred and seventeen Palestinians dead, 313 of them children, more than 5,500 wounded. That was the conflict upon which President-elect Obama had no comment to make.

    And who knows what other gory Pandora’s box ICC membership would open? That bomber pilot who in 2002 killed 15 civilians, 11 of them children, in a Gaza apartment block to assassinate a Hamas official, for example? Wouldn’t that constitute a war crime? Don’t these outrages “damage the atmosphere” and “undermine trust”. Were these bloodbaths not “entirely counterproductive”? And the Jewish colonisation of the occupied West Bank?

    Sure, bang up those behind Hamas and Islamic Jihad suicide attacks for war crimes. Get the Palestinian Authority thugs who torture and murder their own prisoners. But that’s not what Israel and the US are worried about. They are concerned that, after months of arguing and rowing and delving through thousands of documents, jurists may decide that Israel – horror of horror – may have to answer for itself before international justice, something which no routine US veto could prevent.

    Now just imagine if Israel and America wanted the Palestinians to sign the Rome document. Conjure the thought – for a split-second only – that Israel and America insisted that the Palestinians must abide by an international treaty and become members of the International Criminal Court to qualify for statehood. Abbas’s refusal to do so would be further proof of his “terrorist” intentions. Yet when Abbas does sign the Rome document, when the Palestinians want to abide by an international treaty, they must be punished – surely a “first” in modern history.

    I can only think of two phrases that fit the bill for this scandal of the West’s politicians. Confound their politics. Frustrate their knavish tricks.

    The impasse in the Middle East in a nutshell

    Apropos of which… Avi Shlaim, among the finest of Israeli historians, has just brought out a new edition of his great work The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World. “The prospect of a real change in American foreign policy looks slim to non-existent,” he writes. “Nor is there at present any evidence to suggest that Israel’s leaders are remotely interested in a genuine two-state solution… They seem oblivious to the damage that the occupation is doing to their society and to the reputation of their country abroad.”That’s it in a nutshell, isn’t it?


    When will Palestinians learn? Turning to international law isn't the answer ? just ask America and Israel - Comment - Voices - The Independent


    One schtate two schtate, schmeckel- it's all the same to me. It's about (finally) achieving Justice and human rights for the Palestinians, and international recognition and first world status for Israel. But Israeli's and the Jewish diaspora are having the 'solution' superimposed over their heads. Of course 'one staters' such as the President of Israel are quite comfortable with the current 'creeping colonisation' situation- it is conspicously working towards their ends, (as are the bigoted Dreamers in the Settler movement/ far Right). By the time the Two staters realise they've been duped, it will be too late.
    Last edited by sabang; 18-01-2015 at 09:07 AM.
    probes Aliens

  5. #5
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    Seriously, what is this "great" Robert Fisk shit? Why don't you just get your cock out and knock one out over one of his columns?

    Meanwhile the ICC can do what it likes because no-one is going to give a toss what it says anyway. Without the backing of the UN security council nothing can happen, and the biggest three permanent members are not signatories.

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    Simple- he is by far the most knowledgeable reporter on the Middle East, and acknowledged as such. He is independent, and doesn't speak bullshit. He has lived in the region for many years too- Lebanon.
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
    knock one out over one of his columns?
    Might just do that- he's been coming out with some good stuff lately.

    Awards and honours

    Fisk has received the British Press Awards' International Journalist of the Year seven times,[35] and twice won its "Reporter of the Year" award.[36] He also received Amnesty International UK Media Awards in 1992 for his report "The Other Side of the Hostage Saga",[citation needed] in 1998 for his reports from Algeria[37] and again in 2000 for his articles on the NATO air campaign against the FRY in 1999.[38]

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    In the past week of the Charlie Hebdo murders and the murder of the shoppers in the supermarket, ISIS was slaughtering hundreds if not thousands, and the Syrian civil war raged on with hundreds dead or injured. And yet not a word from the lefties or the muslim world. Perhaps there was some hand wringing and some tut tuts.

    Last week. in Yemen, 33 young men applying to enroll at the police academy were killed by a car bomb In Iraq, at a wholesale market , a bomb killed five. Later that morning another blast killed three more people in the nearby town of Madian.

    In Lebanon, on the same day, a suicide bomber walked up to the crowded Omran Café in Tripoli and triggered his vest. Bloodied survivors were pulling themselves out of the rubble when a second bomber stepped in amongst them. There were nine dead and 37 injured.
    In Pakistan, as people gathered to celebrate the Prophet’s birthday at a mosque in Rawalpindi, a bomber pushed his way in. The blast shattered all the nearby windows and killed seven.
    In Nigeria, militants wrapped explosives around a 10-year old girl, and forced her to walk into the market. When she detonated 19 were killed.

    All I hear are the sounds of crickets when it comes to real crimes. Not a word from the arm chair socialists. The real criminal is a certain culture who are incapable of living in peace with others.
    Kindness is spaying and neutering one's companion animals.

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    ^ Thanks for bringing in a sense of perspective, Zygote. Even though we know intellectually that far more decent innocents are being killed by barely educated fanatics in the Muslim world itself, and even though we may occasionally see a news report, that kind of news is not in our faces as much as news about the Charlie murders. So I think we all just mentally discount it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Simple- he is by far the most knowledgeable reporter on the Middle East, and acknowledged as such. He is independent, and doesn't speak bullshit. He has lived in the region for many years too- Lebanon.
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
    knock one out over one of his columns?
    Might just do that- he's been coming out with some good stuff lately.

    Awards and honours

    Fisk has received the British Press Awards' International Journalist of the Year seven times,[35] and twice won its "Reporter of the Year" award.[36] He also received Amnesty International UK Media Awards in 1992 for his report "The Other Side of the Hostage Saga",[citation needed] in 1998 for his reports from Algeria[37] and again in 2000 for his articles on the NATO air campaign against the FRY in 1999.[38]

    I've Fisked this bollocks on the other thread. They can give him all the antisemitic brown nosing they like, he's still a c u n t.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    I've Fisked this bollocks on the other thread. They can give him all the antisemitic brown nosing they like, he's still a c u n t.
    I don't often agree with you harry, but on the subject of this hack, Fisk...he's been repudiated so many times over the past, he's nothing but a 'useful idiot' to quote Joe Stalin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    The great Robert Fisk.

    Fisky points out the obvious hypocricy being shown by the Israel/US axis, but nothing new there.
    "one might have thought that membership of so august a judicial body would have done a lot to persuade the world that Palestinians were ready to shoulder all the burdens of statehood.... After all, the Palestinians would indeed have to abide by international law and – if the law applied retrospectively – they would have to carry the burden of opprobrium themselves for both Hamas crimes and past PLO murders. The United States, of course – and this fact oddly did not feature in the flurry of news reports on “Palestine’s” request to join – has itself refused to join the International Criminal Court. And with good reason"

    Indeed, but the facts being deliberately created on the ground by Israel with it's illegal military occupation and creeping colonisation of Palestine, foretell a different outcome. A one state solution, or binational greater Israel with Palestinian and Israeli citizens. I won't say the two state solution is necessarily dead in the water- it remains quite achievable- but it is foundering, because the schizoid Israeli population and diaspora (which consistently prefers a two state solution over the combined state), just cannot get their act together. Basically, I think the 'Dream' is all but dead. Of course, then you have the outlandish Dreamers- "drive the Palestinians into the sea" (yeh right), or "Israel will be destroyed in an inferno" (cough). Dream on.



    When will Palestinians learn? Turning to international law isn't the answer — just ask America and Israel


    If Palestine's request is 'entirely counterproductive', what does that make Israel's slaughtering of civilians last summer?



    Throw an old dog a bone and sure enough, he’ll go chasing after it. So it is with “Palestine’s” request to join the International Criminal Court. An obvious attempt by Mahmoud Abbas to try Israel for war crimes in Gaza this year, we are told.

    Or maybe a “two-edged sword” – yawns are permitted for such clichés – which could also put Hamas “in the dock”. Israel was outraged. The US was “strongly opposed” to such a dastardly request by the elderly potentate who thinks he rules a state which doesn’t even exist.

    But hold on a moment. That isn’t the story, is it? Surely the real narrative is totally different. The BBC didn’t get this. Nor CNN. Nor even Al Jazeera. But surely the most significant event of all is that the descendants of the PLO – excoriated only a quarter of a century ago as the most dangerous “terrorist” organisation in the world, its mendacious leader Yasser Arafat branded “our Bin Laden” by Israel’s mendacious leader Ariel Sharon – actually wants TO ABIDE BY INTERNATIONAL LAW!

    Heavens preserve us from such a thought, but these chappies – after all their past calls for Israel’s extinction, after all the suicide bombings and intifadas – are asking to join one of the most prestigious judicial bodies on earth. For years, the Palestinians have demanded justice. They went to the international court in The Hague to have Israel’s apartheid wall dismantled – they even won, and Israel didn’t give a hoot. Any sane Palestinian, you might think, would long ago have turned his or her back on such peaceful initiatives.


    Yet still these wretched Palestinians persist, after this most humiliating of insults, in resorting to international law to resolve their conflict with Israel. Here they go again, dutifully seeking membership of the International Criminal Court. Will these Arabs never learn?

    And of course, the Americans are threatening to punish such effrontery. Stop those millions of dollars in aid to the Palestinians. Stand by Israel’s refusal to accept any such approach to the International Criminal Court by “Palestine”. The EU – especially Britain and France – have gone along with this tosh. Israel has already decided to stop more than £80m in tax owed to the Palestinian authority.


    The US State Department’s spokesman told us that his government is “deeply troubled” by the Palestinian application. It is “entirely counterproductive”, he informed the world. It does “nothing to further the aspirations of the Palestinian people for a sovereign state” – though one might have thought that membership of so august a judicial body would have done a lot to persuade the world that Palestinians were ready to shoulder all the burdens of statehood.


    After all, the Palestinians would indeed have to abide by international law and – if the law applied retrospectively – they would have to carry the burden of opprobrium themselves for both Hamas crimes and past PLO murders. The United States, of course – and this fact oddly did not feature in the flurry of news reports on “Palestine’s” request to join – has itself refused to join the International Criminal Court. And with good reason; because, like the Israelis – although this is not quite how the whole fandango was explained to us – Washington is also worried that its soldiers and government officials will be arraigned for war crimes. Think waterboarding, Abu Ghraib, the report on CIA torture…

    No wonder Jeffrey Rathke, the windbag who speaks for the State Department, says that the Palestinian request “badly damages the atmosphere” with Israel, “undermines trust” and “creates doubts about their (Palestinian) commitment to a negotiated peace”. And remember, Abbas only made his request after America had voted against – it has previously used its veto more than 40 times on Israel’s behalf to reject Palestine’s self-determination since 1975 – a UN Security Council resolution to end Israel’s occupation of Palestinian land by 2017.

    But of course, what this whole kerfuffle is really about is quite simple. The world is tired of witnessing the suffering of Palestinians. Those with an ounce of human sympathy are sickened at being slandered as anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist (whatever that is) every time they express their outrage at Israel’s cruelty towards the Palestinians.
    Killing more than 2,000 Palestinians last summer, hundreds of them children, was a mass slaughter. We’ve watched this grotesquerie so many times now – in Gaza, for the most part – that even our statistics have become spattered with blood.

    Who now recalls the fatalities of the 2008-9 Gaza war? One thousand four hundred and seventeen Palestinians dead, 313 of them children, more than 5,500 wounded. That was the conflict upon which President-elect Obama had no comment to make.

    And who knows what other gory Pandora’s box ICC membership would open? That bomber pilot who in 2002 killed 15 civilians, 11 of them children, in a Gaza apartment block to assassinate a Hamas official, for example? Wouldn’t that constitute a war crime? Don’t these outrages “damage the atmosphere” and “undermine trust”. Were these bloodbaths not “entirely counterproductive”? And the Jewish colonisation of the occupied West Bank?

    Sure, bang up those behind Hamas and Islamic Jihad suicide attacks for war crimes. Get the Palestinian Authority thugs who torture and murder their own prisoners. But that’s not what Israel and the US are worried about. They are concerned that, after months of arguing and rowing and delving through thousands of documents, jurists may decide that Israel – horror of horror – may have to answer for itself before international justice, something which no routine US veto could prevent.

    Now just imagine if Israel and America wanted the Palestinians to sign the Rome document. Conjure the thought – for a split-second only – that Israel and America insisted that the Palestinians must abide by an international treaty and become members of the International Criminal Court to qualify for statehood. Abbas’s refusal to do so would be further proof of his “terrorist” intentions. Yet when Abbas does sign the Rome document, when the Palestinians want to abide by an international treaty, they must be punished – surely a “first” in modern history.

    I can only think of two phrases that fit the bill for this scandal of the West’s politicians. Confound their politics. Frustrate their knavish tricks.

    The impasse in the Middle East in a nutshell

    Apropos of which… Avi Shlaim, among the finest of Israeli historians, has just brought out a new edition of his great work The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World. “The prospect of a real change in American foreign policy looks slim to non-existent,” he writes. “Nor is there at present any evidence to suggest that Israel’s leaders are remotely interested in a genuine two-state solution… They seem oblivious to the damage that the occupation is doing to their society and to the reputation of their country abroad.”That’s it in a nutshell, isn’t it?

    When will Palestinians learn? Turning to international law isn't the answer ? just ask America and Israel - Comment - Voices - The Independent


    One schtate two schtate, schmeckel- it's all the same to me. It's about (finally) achieving Justice and human rights for the Palestinians, and international recognition and first world status for Israel. But Israeli's and the Jewish diaspora are having the 'solution' superimposed over their heads. Of course 'one staters' such as the President of Israel are quite comfortable with the current 'creeping colonisation' situation- it is conspicously working towards their ends, (as are the bigoted Dreamers in the Settler movement/ far Right). By the time the Two staters realise they've been duped, it will be too late.
    Thanks Sabang for referencing Robert Fisk, whose material needs to be brought to the forefront.

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    Israel lobbies foreign powers to cut ICC funding | Reuters

    Israel lobbies foreign powers to cut ICC funding


    Reuters) - Israel is lobbying member-states of the International Criminal Court to cut funding for the tribunal in response to its launch of an inquiry into possible war crimes in the Palestinian territories, officials said on Sunday.

    ICC prosecutors said on Friday they would examine "in full independence and impartiality" crimes that may have occurred since June 13 last year. This allows the court to delve into the war between Israel and Hamas militants in Gaza in July-August 2014 that killed more than 2,100 Palestinians and 70 Israelis.

    The decision came after Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, in the absence of peace talks and against strong opposition from Israel and the United States, requested ICC membership, which comes into effect on April 1.

    Israel, which like the United States does not belong to the ICC, hopes to dent funding for the court that is drawn from the 122 member-states in accordance with the size of their economies, Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said on Sunday.

    "We will demand of our friends in Canada, in Australia and in Germany simply to stop funding it," he told Israel Radio.

    "This body represents no one. It is a political body," he said. "There are a quite a few countries - I've already taken telephone calls about this - that also think there is no justification for this body's existence."

    He said he would raise the matter with visiting Canadian counterpart John Baird on Sunday.

    Another Israeli official told Reuters that a similar request was sent to Germany, traditionally one of the court's strongest supporters, and would also be made to Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who is separately visiting Jerusalem and whose nation is the largest contributor to the ICC.

    Islamist group Hamas, which is deemed a terrorist group by Israel and the West, on Saturday welcomed the ICC inquiry and said it was prepared to provide material for complaints against the Jewish state.

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    Israel - always the victim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thaimeme View Post
    Israel - always the victim.
    To that, you can add anyone who has a different view than the Palestinian Arabs and their militias. Need an example?

    Today: RAMALLAH, Palestinian Territories - Palestinian protesters in Ramallah have hurled eggs and shoes at the convoy of Canadian Foreign Minister John Baird.Baird travelled to the West Bank city today to meet with Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad Malki.The protesters held signs reading: "Baird you are not welcome in Palestine."
    Activists from Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party had earlier called for a boycott of the minister because of the Canadian government's perceived pro-Israel stance.Baird is in the region for four days of meetings with Israeli and Palestinian officials.In a statement this morning, he described his meeting with Malki was "cordial and constructive," and said it included "candid and frank exchanges on areas where we differ in opinion."mCanada is opposed to the recent Palestinian bid to pursue war crime charges against Israel. Baird's statement says he asked Malki to "strongly reconsider the consequences of moving forward with any action that may be counterproductive to a negotiated solution with the State of Israel."

    How can one discuss a peaceful solution, when one is almost always greeted with hostility and violence when trying to engage in discussion? It's always the same scenario from the Arabs.: Gives us what we demand or else we will attack you.

    How about another example? In Hizbollah controlled Lebanon, any talk of peace with Israel will result in death.

    BEIRUT (Reuters) - A Israeli beauty queen's selfie has caused a stir in Lebanon, with some Lebanese saying their country's contestant at the Miss Universe pageant should be stripped of her title for consorting with the enemy. Miss Israel Doron Matalon posted a photo of herself and Miss Lebanon Saly Greige smiling together at pageant preparations in Miami, where the winner will be picked on January 25.
    The two countries are technically at war, although the border has been largely quiet since their 2006 conflict. The Lebanese risk prison if they call or travel to Israel and all Israeli products are banned in Lebanon.


    Nice. This is what the position of the Palestinian Arab core supporters is. No, polite dialogues, no civil discourse, no decency, just petty animosity.
    One is delusional and naïve if one thinks that the Palestinian Arabs and their Islamic extremist allies are capable of peace talks or of respecting any peace treaty/agreement. The reality is that there is a war between the civilised world and those who wish to turn back the clock to the caliphate of the 1200's.

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    The title of this thread is misleading , done purposely, no doubt .

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
    a 'useful idiot' to quote Joe Stalin.
    Not Stalin
    Maybe Lenin

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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1
    RAMALLAH, Palestinian Territories - Palestinian protesters in Ramallah have hurled eggs and shoes at the convoy of Canadian Foreign Minister John Baird
    Aw, diddums. Of course, under the Harper administration, Canadian policy towards occupied Palestine/Israel has changed sharply- it is now basically lockstep with the US, running interference for the Israeli occupation. This was not historically the case- and may well change again under future Canadian administrations. The protests were political, and I agree they do nothing whatsoever productive to advance the cause of peace and justice.
    And neither does this, from the 3rd January 2015-
    US State Department 'deeply concerned' by settlers who threw stones at a US diplomatic convoy

    A State Department spokesman in Washington said US authorities were "deeply concerned" about the incident in which Jewish settlers threw stones at the cars of a US diplomatic delegation which came to inspect vandalism to nearby Palestinian-owned trees in the West Bank on Friday.
    "We can confirm a vehicle from the Consulate General was pelted with stones and confronted by a group of armed settlers today in the West Bank, near the Palestinian village of Turmus Ayya," said the US State Department spokesman according to AFP.

    US State Department 'deeply concerned' by settlers who threw stones at a US diplomatic convoy - Breaking News - Jerusalem Post


    By your own logic-
    Nice. This is what the position of the Israeli core supporters is. No, polite dialogues, no civil discourse, no decency, just petty animosity.

    And I would remind you that the US is the largest international funder and supplier of arnaments to Israel. Is that any way to treat a guest and major benefactor? Not to mention 'setttlers' vandalising olive trees etc- is that any way to treat indigenous inhabitants, who's land you are illegally squatting on?
    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1
    In Hizbollah controlled Lebanon, any talk of peace with Israel will result in death.
    Hezbollah does not control Lebanon- it does control a Shiite swathe in the south of the country. Neither did those comments come from Hezbollah. This is a recent comment from the head of Hezbollah-
    "The behavior of the takfiri groups that claim to follow Islam have distorted Islam, the Koran and the Muslim nation more than Islam’s enemies ... who insulted the prophet in films... or drew cartoons of the prophet," the Hezbollah leader said in a televised speech to mark the birthday of the Prophet Mohammed, according to Lebanon’s Daily Star.
    Nasrallah went on to say that “Takfiris are the biggest threat to Islam, as a religion [and] as a message.”
    Hezbollah leader on Charlie Hebdo: ?Extremists more offensive to Islam than cartoons? ? RT News

    The Lebanese risk prison if they call or travel to Israel and all Israeli products are banned in Lebanon.
    This is exactly what would end when a peace settlement is arrived at. Personally, it matters not one whit to me if it is a combined state, or Israel & Palestine- others can debate that. The same applies to many other countries too, such as neighbouring Malaysia. As ex President Shimon Peres (a two stater) pointed out, Israel is losing many trade opportunities because of this, not to mention the more airy fairy matters of international approbium and diplomatic isolation. As long as the current situation persists, this will only increas- as will the BDS sanctions, most likely.
    Last edited by sabang; 19-01-2015 at 05:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thaimeme View Post
    Israel - always the victim.
    Really?

    BEIRUT (Reuters) - An Israeli helicopter strike in Syria killed a commander from Lebanon's Hezbollah and the son of the group's late military leader Imad Moughniyah, Hezbollah said, in a major blow that could lead to reprisal attacks.

    The strike hit a convoy carrying Jihad Moughniyah and commander Mohamad Issa, known as Abu Issa, in the province of Quneitra, near the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights, killing six Hezbollah members in all, a statement from the group said.
    Israeli strike in Syria kills senior Hezbollah figures

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    ^
    deliciously legitimate targets.

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    Basically the ICC is a political forum...but what isn't ?

    Truly PLO Pres Abbas has lost so much support from his Palestinian constituency that he is groping for a political solution ; hence why not join up and play his hand in the ICC.


    I do know that investigations in the following countries have been referred to and requested to be investigated by the ICC :
    Afghanistan, Iraq, Ivory Coast, Kenya , Chad, Libya, Columbia , Georgia, Ukraine , even Thailand.

    Exactly which crimes had been investigated by the ICC ?
    Darfur, Sudan and Uganda were referred to by the United Nations Security Council for investigation ten years ago ! ...and some individuals were indicted.
    More interesting is where these individuals are in the negotiated 'scheme of current events'.
    Last edited by PeeCoffee; 19-01-2015 at 01:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    ^
    deliciously legitimate targets.
    Yeah but Nasrallah's the big prize.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee View Post
    Basically the ICC is a political forum...but what isn't ?

    Truly PLO Pres Abbas has lost so much support from his Palestinian constituency that he is groping for a political solution ; hence why not join up and play his hand in the ICC.


    I do know that investigations in the following countries have been referred to and requested to be investigated by the ICC :
    Afghanistan, Iraq, Ivory Coast, Kenya , Chad, Libya, Columbia , Georgia, Ukraine , even Thailand.

    Exactly which crimes have been investigated by the ICC ?
    Darfur, Sudan and Uganda were referred to by the United Nations Security Council for investigation ten years ago ! ...and
    Fisk does have a point, in that there is really little point in Palestine getting the ICC involved. Largely toothless, and even if there was any judgement against fascist state israel, they would ignore it. Israel being the rogue state who ignores every international ruling against them, with 200+ nukes unregistered because they are the victim as usual. What it does do though is two fold; keeps people thinking about it - sure the cnn turds like harrytittletattle will churp about spewing their ADL pamphlet quotes all the time, but others will see it and traction will continue to move forward with more people seeing the situation as it truly is; illegal occupation and ghettoization of a civilian population who when faced with ethic cleansing (as per UN definition of Ethnic Cleansing, Flake) are exercising their right to resist illegal occupation. Secondly, it again exposes to the world just how insipid the US and israel is. They actually come out and start saying they are going to try to destroy the ICC! So more people will see exactly how heinous the US and israel government really are which again is a positive.

    However, I fully expect them to say Israel is great and palestine are dangerous terrorists who need nuking by israel with complete impunity.

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    To put a face on reality. If I were a fort stuck in the middle of hostile territory I would want my outer perimeters as far out as I could manage...so that realistically I would have several potential fall-back positions available.

    I believe forty seven years after retaliating , fighting Jordanian forces and capturing territory known as Jordan's West Bank ...strictly from a strategic military standpoint I would want to keep that perimeter.

    The width of Israel at its narrowest point without the West Bank is less than 10 miles. No longer an acceptable defensive position in light of powerful hand-held weapon ranges and capacities which were not foreseen even twenty years ago.
    From Jerusalem to the sea is only 48 km (30 miles).

    I can readily understand why Israel wants to hold 'by any means possible.'

    As for illegal occupation...assuredly you must be referring to the State of Israel's occupation since capturing territory in 1967.
    What would you consider a legal occupation...Cyprus ? Tibet ? Gibraltar ? America ?

    This after the Ottoman Turks captured the territory and ruled over the territory for 400 years , then the Turks losing its hold and sovereign rule to the British during WW1 and allowing British sovereign rule for an additional 25 years.
    (Additionally in that light, I can readily understand why Turkey is quite at odds).

    2015 - 1948 = 69
    (Such an auspicious numbered anniversary for like-minded folk.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
    I believe forty seven years after retaliating , fighting Jordanian forces and capturing territory known as Jordan's West Bank ...strictly from a strategic military standpoint I would want to keep that perimeter.
    So you're a one stater? Fair enough- I think more and more people agree with you. Really, the main thing about the two state solution is the Israeli Jewish/ Diaspora emotional attachment to 'Israel as a Jewish state'. Personally, I think thats a bit anachronistic. What about Israel as a modern, prosperous state?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
    I believe forty seven years after retaliating , fighting Jordanian forces and capturing territory known as Jordan's West Bank ...strictly from a strategic military standpoint I would want to keep that perimeter.
    So you're a one stater? Fair enough- I think more and more people agree with you. Really, the main thing about the two state solution is the Israeli Jewish/ Diaspora emotional attachment to 'Israel as a Jewish state'. Personally, I think thats a bit anachronistic. What about Israel as a modern, prosperous state?
    Will until they both stop laying claim to Jerusalem, I can't see it being resolved.

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