Thread: "Fuck, We're Dead", Air France Pilots Last Words

TWO Air France pilots were asleep, leaving a rookie at the controls, before the plane crashed into the sea in 2009, killing all 228 people board.


Disturbing new recorder information from doomed Flight 447 which crashed into the Atlantic Ocean five years ago also reveals one of the pilots shouted "F**k, we're dead" as the plane went down.
The shocking details have emerged in a new investigation, published in the October edition of Vanity Fair magazine, exposing the troubling "piloting culture" within Air France at the time.
Recorded conversations between 37-year-old David Robert, Pierre-Cedric Bonin, 32, and Marc Dubois - the 58-year-old captain - reveal that two of them were sleeping when the Airbus 330 experienced trouble in a tropical storm. The plane was flying from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to Paris, France.
According to Vanity Fair, Bonin, dubbed the "Company Baby" with only a few hundred flight hours under his belt, was left in charge while the captain slept. It was known that the veteran captain only got one hour of sleep the previous night, spending most of his time with his travel companion, an off-duty flight attendant and opera singer.



"If the captain had stayed in position through the Inter-tropical Convergence Zone, it would have delayed his sleep by no more than 15 minutes, and because of his experience, maybe the story would have ended differently," chief investigator Alain Bouillard is quoted as saying.
"But I do not believe it was fatigue that caused him to leave. It was more like customary behaviour, part of the piloting culture within Air France. And his leaving was not against the rules. Still, it is surprising. If you are responsible for the outcome, you do not go on vacation during the main event."

According to the investigation, the plane was suffering from a loss of lift and its airspeed sensors had malfunctioned. But instead of following procedures and lowering the plane's nose, the junior pilot raised it.
Dubois finally entered the cockpit one minute and 38 seconds after the malfunction - but it was too late.
Robert said: "F**k, we're going to crash! It's not true! But what's happening?" Then either Robert or Bonin say: "F**k, we're dead" before the plane crashed.

According to Vanity Fair, the turbulence and malfunction should have been a "non-event" that could have been easily handled. However, the "airplane was in control of the pilots, and if they had done nothing, they would have done all they needed to do".
It took authorities about two years to retrieve bodies and essential records from the bottom of the ocean.
Air France has denied its pilots were incompetent, but have improved their training program. Both Air France and Airbus are facing manslaughter charges and there have been detailed investigations.

Two Air France pilots were asleep before fatal 2009 crash as one woke to say 'F**k, we're dead'

Horrifying, ....

I see Airbus and Air France have started their "let's blame the pilots" campaign ready for the course case.

Exactly..

Bonin, dubbed the "Company Baby" with only a few hundred flight hours under his belt

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I see Airbus and Air France have started their "let's blame the pilots" campaign ready for the course case.

Who else is to blame, they were the ones flying the plane.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I see Airbus and Air France have started their "let's blame the pilots" campaign ready for the course case.

Well they employed them, so I don't see how that will stop them paying out.

If you work in a car factory and don't tighten the wheel bolts properly and someone dies as a result, the Company will still have to fork out. They do have measures though to recoup some of the compensation back off the worker if he's found at fault.

I doubt the pilots widows pension will be touched though, what with how strong those French Unions are.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I see Airbus and Air France have started their "let's blame the pilots" campaign ready for the course case.

Who else is to blame, they were the ones flying the plane.

I made a typo - it should have read "Court case".

Air France AND Airbus are being sued.

Air France for improper training, and Airbus for having computer-controlled systems that make decisions that confuse pilots.

After the very first Airbus that crashed, the pilots swore blind that the plane did not respond to thrust commands, but they got the blame anyway. Would have been bad for business otherwise.

A documentary on the Geography channel made a detailed claim that the flight recorder had been interfered with and indicated that some seconds had been cut from the tape, this was shown by playing back a control tower tape and comparing it to the remaining tape. This indicated a problem with the aeroplane's control system rather than pilot error. It is claimed that the flight data recorders had been switched and were not the original ones in the aeroplane. Airbus, however, made a detailed rebuttal of these claims in a document published in 1991. They contend that the independent investigator employed by the filmmakers made an error when synchronising the recordings, based on a misunderstanding of how the "Radio Transmit" parameter on the flight data recorder actually functioned.

^A good pilot shouldn't be troubled by such trivialities.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I see Airbus and Air France have started their "let's blame the pilots" campaign ready for the course case.

Who else is to blame, they were the ones flying the plane.

All these high profile, and not so worthy, air tragedies will ultimately induce a base ideal of blame - human error.

Less pilot mishaps, "mechanical" or "manufacture" failure will be used as culpability.


As all three are human instigated, then certainly all results and faults are directly Human error. Things happens. The universal cycles are imperfect.

No one wants these tragedies - the airline companies, the manufacturers, the mechanics and troubleshooters, and certainly not pilots/cabin crews.

As unfortunate as these accidents might be, observe the thousands of flights daily worldwide without incident.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

^A good pilot shouldn't be troubled by such trivialities.

And a good pilot probably wouldn't be if he had full control of the aircraft, and proper feedback.

That's the bloody point.

^that article is kinda clueless talking about ducts which provide airspeed info!

There are three cardinal rules in aviation:
1. Fly the airplane.
2. Fly the airplane.
3. Fly the airplane.

Seems like this unfortunate crew violated all three.

It would be interesting to what altitude they were at and what weather factors were present.

There's a few factors at play here, the rookie who lost situational awareness, 2 sleep deprived experienced pilots and the lack of feedback from the planes controls, plus the fact theyre a bunch of arrogant Frogs.

They should also stop those pilots banging the stewardesses.

Originally Posted by Dillinger

There's a few factors at play here, the rookie who lost situational awareness, 2 sleep deprived experienced pilots and the lack of feedback from the planes controls, plus the fact theyre a bunch of arrogant Frogs.

The issue of lack of control feedback is BS imho. No big airliner gives much control feedback, but they all have elaborate and redundant stall warning systems. Somehow the autopilot was disengaged and the PIC wasn't scanning and cross checking his instruments effectively and apparently ignoring the stall warnings. You simply don't fly airliners by the seat of your pants. You use the instruments.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Originally Posted by Dillinger

There's a few factors at play here, the rookie who lost situational awareness, 2 sleep deprived experienced pilots and the lack of feedback from the planes controls, plus the fact theyre a bunch of arrogant Frogs.

The issue of lack of control feedback is BS imho. No big airliner gives much control feedback, but they all have elaborate and redundant stall warning systems. Somehow the autopilot was disengaged and the PIC wasn't scanning and cross checking his instruments effectively and apparently ignoring the stall warnings. You simply don't fly airliners by the seat of your pants. You use the instruments.

Suggest you read the link in Post #11, you probably missed it.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Originally Posted by Dillinger

There's a few factors at play here, the rookie who lost situational awareness, 2 sleep deprived experienced pilots and the lack of feedback from the planes controls, plus the fact theyre a bunch of arrogant Frogs.

The issue of lack of control feedback is BS imho. No big airliner gives much control feedback, but they all have elaborate and redundant stall warning systems. Somehow the autopilot was disengaged and the PIC wasn't scanning and cross checking his instruments effectively and apparently ignoring the stall warnings. You simply don't fly airliners by the seat of your pants. You use the instruments.

Suggest you read the link in Post #11, you probably missed it.

Yea I did read it airy' and it be a bullshit article, like I said, and again you do NOT fly airliners by the seat of your pants.
The exception perhaps being Tex Johnston.

Alvin M. Johnston - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia