Thread: US condemns shelling of UN school in Gaza but restocks Israeli ammunition

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Originally Posted by Fluke

Originally Posted by thaimeme

.

All the while condemning every little skirmish around the world [U.S. interest or not] with strong talk, sanctions, interventions, etc.

But when it comes to sweet and benign Israel - different story.
Blind defence and apologists are the call of the day.

.

? This thread is about the U.S condemning Israel .
You are saying that the U.S never condemns Israel in a thread entitled "U.S. condemns Israel"
Most strange

The condemnation and "strong" language is not real.
Purely rhetorical whimsy from the American establishment.

They feel, within the international community, that they have to put on the act - yet have no real harsh intentions.

You [like many numb cnuts] are obviously not aware of the theatre that goes on.

Oh I see, so when you said that the U.S never condemns Israel, what you meant to say was that the U.S. does condemn Israel, but doesnt really mean the condemnation .

Originally Posted by Fluke

Originally Posted by thaimeme

.

All the while condemning every little skirmish around the world [U.S. interest or not] with strong talk, sanctions, interventions, etc.

But when it comes to sweet and benign Israel - different story.
Blind defence and apologists are the call of the day.

.

? This thread is about the U.S condemning Israel .
You are saying that the U.S never condemns Israel in a thread entitled "U.S. condemns Israel"
Most strange

More of fluke not reading well.

Its about the utter hypocrisy of the US feigning some condemnation of israel whilst making sure their stick piles of bombs and weapons are filled to the brim.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Originally Posted by Fluke

Originally Posted by thaimeme

.

All the while condemning every little skirmish around the world [U.S. interest or not] with strong talk, sanctions, interventions, etc.

But when it comes to sweet and benign Israel - different story.
Blind defence and apologists are the call of the day.

.

? This thread is about the U.S condemning Israel .
You are saying that the U.S never condemns Israel in a thread entitled "U.S. condemns Israel"
Most strange

More of fluke not reading well.

Its about the utter hypocrisy of the US feigning some condemnation of israel whilst making sure their stick piles of bombs and weapons are filled to the brim.

I was replying to thaimeme, rather than commenting on the thread topic

I find it laughable that westerners demand that Israel make peace with Hamas. It is impossible, because, the Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel. No ifs ands or buts. Hamas requires the destruction of Israel and the death of anyone who disagrees. How can one make peace with an entity that insists the only option is death and destruction?

Hamas Charter (1988)
The Charter of Allah: The Platform of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)
“In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate You are the best community that has been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed, it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-doers. They will not harm you save a trifling hurt, and if they fight against you they will turn and flee. And afterward they will not be helped. Ignominy shall be their portion wheresoever they are found save [where they grasp] a rope from Allah and a rope from man. They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them. That is because they used to disbelieve the revelations of Allah, and slew the Prophets wrongfully. That is because they were rebellious and used to transgress.” Surat Al-Imran (III), verses 109-111 Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors. The Islamic World is burning. It is incumbent upon each one of us to pour some water, little as it may be, with a view of extinguishing as much of the fire as he can, without awaiting action by the others.

Part III - Strategies and Methods

Article Eleven: The Strategy of Hamas: Palestine is an Islamic Waqf
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine has been an Islamic Waqf throughout the generations and until the Day of Resurrection, no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it. No Arab country nor the aggregate of all Arab countries, and no Arab King or President nor all of them in the aggregate, have that right, nor has that right any organization or the aggregate of all organizations, be they Palestinian or Arab, because Palestine is an Islamic Waqf throughout all generations and to the Day of Resurrection. Who can presume to speak for all Islamic Generations to the Day of Resurrection? This is the status [of the land] in Islamic Shari’a, and it is similar to all lands conquered by Islam by force, and made thereby Waqf lands upon their conquest, for all generations of Muslims until the Day of Resurrection. This [norm] has prevailed since the commanders of the Muslim armies completed the conquest of Syria and Iraq, and they asked the Caliph of Muslims, ‘Umar Ibn al-Khattab, for his view of the conquered land, whether it should be partitioned between the troops or left in the possession of its population, or otherwise. Following discussions and consultations between the Caliph of Islam, ‘Umar Ibn al-Khattab, and the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, be peace and prayer upon him, they decided that the land should remain in the hands of its owners to benefit from it and from its wealth; but the control of the land and the land itself ought to be endowed as a Waqf [in perpetuity] for all generations of Muslims until the Day of Resurrection. The ownership of the land by its owners is only one of usufruct, and this Waqf will endure as long as Heaven and earth last. Any demarche in violation of this law of Islam, with regard to Palestine, is baseless and reflects on its perpetrators.

Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences
[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.” From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: “The people of Syria are Allah’s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.” (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.)

Absolutely vomit inducing hypocrisy displayed by the powers at be.

We as the honest law abiding individual nobodies who pay our taxes and are forced into trusting the bureaucrats that make the decisions that affect so many will never make things right.

If I had my way I would blow the middle east off the face of the planet but that would not affect the Jews as their powerful financial influence and ground roots control is far reaching.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Such a sweet and compassionate people.
Why wouldn't anyone see them as anything else?

I'm not pro Israel and I'm certainly not pro Hamas. But your take on this Pseudo is too one sided. Hamas stops the rockets, Israel stops the invasion. So simple really. Unfortunately Hamas are winning the propaganda war but does Israel give a shit?
I'm sure Pseudo that if someone was lobbing shit into your back garden you just wouldn't sit there and accept it would you?

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Hamas stops the rockets

I doubt hamas could if they tried. too many people with dead relatives and children all wanting revenge. They should though put them to better use and fire them at the IDF when they are on the streets of Gaza murdering civilians.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Israel stops the invasion.

No they won't.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I'm not pro Israel and I'm certainly not pro Hamas. But your take on this Pseudo is too one sided. Hamas stops the rockets, Israel stops the invasion. So simple really. Unfortunately Hamas are winning the propaganda war but does Israel give a shit?
I'm sure Pseudo that if someone was lobbing shit into your back garden you just wouldn't sit there and accept it would you?

It's no one's call except heard from US/UK owners.
That will never happen, unless their are revolts within their respective countries.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/wo...ref=world&_r=0

ARAB LEADERS, VIEWING HAMAS AS WORSE THASN ISRAEL STAY SILENT

CAIRO — Battling Palestinian militants in Gaza two years ago, Israel found itself pressed from all sides by unfriendly Arab neighbors to end the fighting.

Not this time.

After the military ouster of the Islamist government in Cairo last year, Egypt has led a new coalition of Arab states — including Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates —that has effectively lined up with Israel in its fight against Hamas, the Islamist movement that controls the Gaza Strip. That, in turn, may have contributed to the failure of the antagonists to reach a negotiated cease-fire even after more than three weeks of bloodshed.

“The Arab states’ loathing and fear of political Islam is so strong that it outweighs their allergy to Benjamin Netanyahu,” the prime minister of Israel, said Aaron David Miller, a scholar at the Wilson Center in Washington and a former Middle East negotiator under several presidents.

“I have never seen a situation like it, where you have so many Arab states acquiescing in the death and destruction in Gaza and the pummeling of Hamas,” he said. “The silence is deafening.”

Although Egypt is traditionally the key go-between in any talks with Hamas — deemed a terrorist group by the United States and Israel —the government in Cairo this time surprised Hamas by publicly proposing a cease-fire agreement that met most of Israel’s demands and none from the Palestinian group. Hamas was tarred as intransigent when it immediately rejected it, and Cairo has continued to insist that its proposal remains the starting point for any further discussions.

But as commentators sympathetic to the Palestinians slammed the proposal as a ruse to embarrass Hamas, Egypt’s Arab allies praised it. King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia called President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi of Egypt the next day to commend it, Mr. Sisi’s office said, in a statement that cast no blame on Israel but referred only to “the bloodshed of innocent civilians who are paying the price for a military confrontation for which they are not responsible.”

“There is clearly a convergence of interests of these various regimes with Israel,” said Khaled Elgindy, a former adviser to Palestinian negotiators who is now a fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington. In the battle with Hamas, Mr. Elgindy said, the Egyptian fight against the forces of political Islam and the Israeli struggle against Palestinian militants were nearly identical. “Whose proxy war is it?” he asked.

The dynamic has inverted all expectations of the Arab Spring uprisings. As recently as 18 months ago, most analysts in Israel, Washington and the Palestinian territories expected the popular uprisings to make the Arab governments more responsive to their citizens, and therefore more sympathetic to the Palestinians and more hostile to Israel.

But instead of becoming more isolated, Israel’s government has emerged for the moment as an unexpected beneficiary of the ensuing tumult, now tacitly supported by the leaders of the resurgent conservative order as an ally in their common fight against political Islam.

Egyptian officials have directly or implicitly blamed Hamas instead of Israel for Palestinian deaths in the fighting, even when, for example, United Nations schools have been hit by Israeli shells, something that occurred again on Wednesday.

And the pro-government Egyptian news media has continued to rail against Hamas as a tool of a regional Islamist plot to destabilize Egypt and the region, just as it has since the military ouster of President Mohamed Morsi of the Muslim Brotherhood one year ago. (Egyptian prosecutors have charged Hamas with instigating violence in Egypt, killing its soldiers and police officers, and even breaking Mr. Morsi and other Brotherhood leaders out of jail during the 2011 uprising.)

The diatribes against Hamas by at least one popular pro-government talk show host in Egypt were so extreme that the government of Israel broadcast some of them into Gaza.

“They use it to say, ‘See, your supposed friends are encouraging us to kill you!’ ” Maisam Abumorr, a Palestinian student in Gaza City, said in a telephone interview.

Some pro-government Egyptian talk shows broadcast in Gaza “are saying the Egyptian Army should help the Israeli Army get rid of Hamas,” she said.

At the same time, Egypt has infuriated Gazans by continuing its policy of shutting down tunnels used for cross-border smuggling into the Gaza Strip and keeping border crossings closed, exacerbating a scarcity of food, water and medical supplies after three weeks of fighting.

“Sisi is worse than Netanyahu, and the Egyptians are conspiring against us more than the Jews,” said Salhan al-Hirish, a storekeeper in the northern Gaza town of Beit Lahiya. “They finished the Brotherhood in Egypt, and now they are going after Hamas.”

Egypt and other Arab states, especially the Persian Gulf monarchies of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, are finding themselves allied with Israel in a common opposition to Iran, a rival regional power that has a history of funding and arming Hamas.

For Washington, the shift poses new obstacles to its efforts to end the fighting. Although intelligence agencies continue to talk with Hamas, as they did under former President Hosni Mubarak and Mr. Morsi, Cairo’s new animosity toward the group has called into question the effectiveness of that channel, especially after the response to Egypt’s first proposal.

As a result, Secretary of State John Kerry turned to the more Islamist-friendly states of Qatar and Turkey as alternative mediators — two states that grew in regional stature with the rising tide of political Islam after the Arab Spring, and that have suffered a degree of isolation as that tide has ebbed.

But that move has put Mr. Kerry in the incongruous position of appearing to some analysts as less hostile to Hamas — and thus less supportive of Israel — than Egypt or its Arab allies.

For Israeli hawks, the change in the Arab states has been relatively liberating.

“The reading here is that, aside from Hamas and Qatar, most of the Arab governments are either indifferent or willing to follow the leadership of Egypt,” said Martin Kramer, president of Shalem College in Jerusalem and an American-Israeli scholar of Islamist and Arab politics. “No one in the Arab world is going to the Americans and telling them, ‘Stop it now,’ ” as Saudi Arabia did, for example, in response to earlier Israeli crackdowns on the Palestinians, he said. “That gives the Israelis leeway.”

With the resurgence of the anti-Islamist, military-backed government in Cairo, Mr. Kramer said, the new Egyptian government and allies like Saudi Arabia appear to believe that “the Palestinian people are to bear the suffering in order to defeat Hamas, because Hamas cannot be allowed to triumph and cannot be allowed to emerge as the most powerful Palestinian player.”

Egyptian officials disputed that characterization, arguing that the new government was maintaining its support for the Palestinian people despite its deteriorating relations with Hamas, and that it had grown no closer to Israel than it was under Mr. Morsi or Mr. Mubarak.

“We have a historical responsibility toward the Palestinians, and that is not related to our stance on any specific faction,” said a senior Egyptian diplomat, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks. “Hamas is not Gaza, and Gaza is not Palestine.”

Egyptian officials noted that the Egyptian military and the Red Crescent had delivered medical supplies and other aid to Gaza. Cairo continues to keep open lines of communication with Hamas, including allowing a senior Hamas official, Moussa Abu Marzouq, to reside in Cairo.

Other analysts, though, argued that Egypt and its Arab allies were trying to balance their own overriding dislike for Hamas against their citizens’ emotional support for the Palestinians, a balancing act that could grow more challenging as the Gaza carnage mounts.

“The pendulum of the Arab Spring has swung in Israel’s favor, just like it had earlier swung in the opposite direction,” said Mr. Elgindy, the former Palestinian adviser.

“But I am not sure the story is finished at this point.”

^Which arab state is not owned by the US these days then?


just sayin'

Just sayin'

Ben Gurion himself realized an artificially created Jewish state would never be accepted by those displaced, and he agreed with them…..

“If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been
antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country.

Why should they accept that?”

David Ben-Gurion

Born: October 16, 1886, Płońsk, Poland
Died: December 1, 1973, Tel HaShomer

Originally Posted by pseudolus

^Which arab state is not owned by the US these days then?


just sayin'

Benefits the US to play both ends.
Owner of Israel and assorted Arab states.

Perpetual war for perpetual peace for perpetual profits.

Originally Posted by KEVIN2008

Ben Gurion himself realized an artificially created Jewish state would never be accepted by those displaced, and he agreed with them…..

“If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been
antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country.

Why should they accept that?”

David Ben-Gurion

Born: October 16, 1886, Płońsk, Poland
Died: December 1, 1973, Tel HaShomer

Very good post. I've never seen that before.

It really puts over the Palestinians point of view in very simple and understandable language.

And indeed, " Why should they accept that ".

Not taking sides here, just acknowledging a very relevant point of view.

Originally Posted by terry57

I've never seen that before.

You won't see most of the pertinent information if you rely on main stream media for your information, Terry

^

I don't get too deep into as its way to complicated and these threads always end in tears.

But I do indeed follow whats going on.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Originally Posted by terry57

I've never seen that before.

You won't see most of the pertinent information if you rely on main stream media for your information, Terry

I don't believe most connect-the-dots as it applies to main stream media and Israel related.

Netanyahu warns US not to try to force Israel into a Gaza ceasefire
• Israel PM tells US ‘not to ever second-guess me again’
• US and UN called naive over failed ceasefire with Hamas

Netanyahu warns US not to try to force Israel into a Gaza ceasefire | World news | theguardian.com

Israel reminds the US who the boss is

Originally Posted by terry57

Originally Posted by KEVIN2008

Ben Gurion himself realized an artificially created Jewish state would never be accepted by those displaced, and he agreed with them…..

“If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been
antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country.

Why should they accept that?”

David Ben-Gurion

Born: October 16, 1886, Płońsk, Poland
Died: December 1, 1973, Tel HaShomer

Very good post. I've never seen that before.

It really puts over the Palestinians point of view in very simple and understandable language.

And indeed, " Why should they accept that ".

Not taking sides here, just acknowledging a very relevant point of view.

You haven't seen it because it is an unsubstantiated quote.

Originally Posted by zygote1

Originally Posted by terry57

Originally Posted by KEVIN2008

Ben Gurion himself realized an artificially created Jewish state would never be accepted by those displaced, and he agreed with them…..

“If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been
antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country.

Why should they accept that?”

David Ben-Gurion

Born: October 16, 1886, Płońsk, Poland
Died: December 1, 1973, Tel HaShomer

Very good post. I've never seen that before.

It really puts over the Palestinians point of view in very simple and understandable language.

And indeed, " Why should they accept that ".

Not taking sides here, just acknowledging a very relevant point of view.

You haven't seen it because it is an unsubstantiated quote.

yet you believe religious texts are substantiated?

Why should they accept it? Why should they accept having their land stolen due to some made up story book? Why?

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Israel reminds the US who the boss is

Spot on ,,, and scary. they don't wanna listen to anybody who opposes 'their right' to
rob land and slaughter the people who want their land handed back.

and they will go on building more settlements on occupied land. keep expanding.
and what we get is

Originally Posted by pseudolus

yet you believe religious texts are substantiated?

Why should they accept it? Why should they accept having their land stolen due to some made up story book? Why?

The issue is your posting an uncorroborated misattributed quote as a fact.
This was pointed out. '
And now your make a false statement regarding religious tracts. I did not offer any religious tracts as factual except as part of the Hamas Charter, where Hamas includes its religious derived edicts.

Whenever you are caught with inaccurate statements you immediately go off on a tangent. Why not deal with the issue at hand?