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  1. #26
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    FUKK!

    RIP

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    ^ This plane was cruising at 33,000 feet out of the range of all but the most sophisticated of GTAMs. The kind that is only possessed by nation states.

    More then likely this is what was used;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
    You might surprised as to the weaponry that is secured by groups and individuals of every sort....

    And it is out there - in wealth.
    Governments don't have a market cornered by any means.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1
    Multiple Ukrainian airplanes and helicopters were shot down in the previous weeks by forces using a Buk missile system

    There have been AC's shot down recently, but they were all low level and brought down by shoulder fire type missiles. It takes a much more sophisticated piece of kit to down a big plane at 33000 ft. The BUK is the early suspect because it's known that such missiles have been supplied to the separatist forces in Ukraine, by that well know peace broker Vlad Putin. The BUK is an advanced SAM and well capable of doing the job.
    I blame the Americans......and Thaksin.

  4. #29
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    Air passengers and their luggage spend hours lining up to be probed, x-rayed and searched, all in the name of safety and security, before being shoved onto planes that are then cheerfully sent to fly through war zones.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    Air passengers and their luggage spend hours lining up to be probed, x-rayed and searched, all in the name of safety and security, before being shoved onto planes that are then cheerfully sent to fly through war zones.
    ICAO had cleared the flight path over Ukraine, as it was not viewed as unusually dangerous for civil aircraft at high altitude. Many airlines continued to fly the route. Only the USA told it's pilots to avoid it. Clearly a bad decision by ICAO as it turns out..

    The way the world is shaping up, it will become increasing difficult to fly over a lot of places on normal flight corridors....especially with the ready supply of modern SAM's to "freedom fighters" here and there.

  6. #31
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    Watching ABC (Australian) and a former Australian official (Paul Dob?) is saying that he believes the evidence points to pro Russian rebels firing a Russian made rocket.

    Also some voice clips of the pro Russian rebels asking "Were there weapons on board? Any civilian casualties?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
    Watching ABC (Australian) and a former Australian official (Paul Dob?) is saying that he believes the evidence points to pro Russian rebels firing a Russian made rocket.

    Also some voice clips of the pro Russian rebels asking "Were there weapons on board? Any civilian casualties?
    The early theory seems to be that pro-Russian separatists shot the plane down thinking it was another transport AC...several of which they have shot down recently, with significant loss of life.

    How they could possibly mistake a civil airliner at 33000 ft in a well defined civil aviation corridor, for a military transporter, is going to take some explanation....as well as the question of Russian supplied high level SAM's capable of such things. This could raise the bar significantly in the conflict.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
    Watching ABC (Australian) and a former Australian official (Paul Dob?) is saying that he believes the evidence points to pro Russian rebels firing a Russian made rocket.

    Also some voice clips of the pro Russian rebels asking "Were there weapons on board? Any civilian casualties?
    The early theory seems to be that pro-Russian separatists shot the plane down thinking it was another transport AC...several of which they have shot down recently, with significant loss of life.

    How they could possibly mistake a civil airliner at 33000 ft for a transporter, is going to take some explanation....as well as the question of Russian supplied high level SAM's capable of such things. This could raise the bar significantly in the conflict.
    Yep, the West's response to Russian meddling in Ukraine has been minimal. More importantly, I wonder how the EU will react, its their back yard...

    Reports of 150 Dutch on the flight?

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancelot
    I wonder how the EU will react
    The way the EU always reacts. Strongly worded letter to Moscow condemning the shooting down of civil aircraft.

    Over in the US, Obama is out fundraising....but he did mention the event as tragic... not yet confirmed if there were Americans on board. Once American casualties are confirmed he may raise it to outrageous, or something of the sort.

  10. #35
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  11. #36
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    What A FUCKED UP WORLD WE LIVE IN.

    Innocent people die for obviously a Government sponsored attack and a poke in the eye for the US.

    So fucking sad.

  12. #37
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    Some news reports now indicating 23 Americans were aboard the flight.

  13. #38
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    It would surely have been known right from the start how many Americans were on board; in exactly the same way that the other nationalities and numbers were known. The flight manifest would show the name and passport ID of everyone who boarded the AC in Amsterdam.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zygote1
    Multiple Ukrainian airplanes and helicopters were shot down in the previous weeks by forces using a Buk missile system

    There have been AC's shot down recently, but they were all low level and brought down by shoulder fire type missiles. It takes a much more sophisticated piece of kit to down a big plane at 33000 ft. The BUK is the early suspect because it's known that such missiles have been supplied to the separatist forces in Ukraine, by that well know peace broker Vlad Putin. The BUK is an advanced SAM and well capable of doing the job.
    Guardian reports differently;
    In a series of incidents over the last week, a Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-25 jet was shot down by an air-to-air missile on Wednesday evening. Pro-Russian rebels claimed they had downed a second Su-25 the same day; Ukrainian defence force said it had been hit by a ground-launched missile. On Monday, a Ukrainian military transport was hit by a missile supposedly from Russia; the plane was beyond the range of a MANPAD.

    On Thursday, an Associated Press reporter reported seeing a Buk in the east Ukrainian town of Snizhne.

    Malaysia Airlines crash: analysts point towards Soviet-era Buk missile system | World news | The Guardian
    Kindness is spaying and neutering one's companion animals.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    It would surely have been known right from the start how many Americans were on board; in exactly the same way that the other nationalities and numbers were known. The flight manifest would show the name and passport ID of everyone who boarded the AC in Amsterdam.
    a Ukrainian transport plane had been flying overhead close to the time that the missile was fired at the Malaysia Airlines plane, suggesting that may have been the original target. The transport plane had been trying to relieve a beleaguered Ukraine garrison.

    As per Guardian source above.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    What A FUCKED UP WORLD WE LIVE IN.

    Innocent people die for obviously a Government sponsored attack and a poke in the eye for the US.

    So fucking sad.
    I doubt the Americans were targeted. The Dutch and the UK have been just as tough on the Russians. Not that I disagree with you that this was most likely a (Russian) government sponsored attack through its proxy rebel militia and Russian special forces.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Nice to know that his tyrannical regime will be hosting the 2018 FIFA World Cup.

  18. #43
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    If a plane breaks up mid-air at 30000 ft. and passengers are thrown out, do they die whilst still in the air through lack of oxygen, or when they hit the ground?

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile
    If a plane breaks up mid-air at 30000 ft. and passengers are thrown out, do they die whilst still in the air through lack of oxygen, or when they hit the ground?
    Considering it is about minus 55 celsius when they are ejected from the aircraft doing 600 mph, they are probably popsicles by the time they hit the ground.

  20. #45
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    Hmm. Two Malaysian planes shot out of the sky. Both bearing a striking resemblance to Vlad the Impalers private plane.

    “I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft - 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    If a plane breaks up mid-air at 30000 ft. and passengers are thrown out, do they die whilst still in the air through lack of oxygen, or when they hit the ground?
    From the look of the debris I'd guess the plane didn't break up in the air and was more or less whole when it hit the ground.
    Those missiles are guided by a thermal optical lens so most likely one of the engines was hit possibly breaking the wing causing the plane to go more or less straight down depending on how much control the pilots still had.
    Most likely everyone was still alive all the way down. It probably took about 2-3 minutes for the plane to hit the ground. Pretty horrible to contemplate.
    Last edited by Mr Earl; 18-07-2014 at 12:05 PM.

  22. #47
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    Mr Earl, according the BBC, the debris is in a 15 square kilometer area... that sounds like a very BIG plane if it didnt break up, wouldnt you think?

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    Mr Earl, according the BBC, the debris is in a 15 square kilometer area... that sounds like a very BIG plane if it didnt break up, wouldnt you think?
    Just looking at the pictures tells me that was a big chunk of the plane right there and the fire indicates there was fuel so some parts of the plane remained intact all the way to the ground. A Boeing 777 isn't some fragile egg shell. The engine/wing which was hit could well be 15 km from the main wreckage. That means the pilots were likely still trying to fly the airplane all the way down to the ground, the way they are trained to.

  24. #49
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    And where is the response from the US? Where is the POTUS?

    Hint: Busy on a New York fund raiser.

    POTUS? More like POS.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancelot
    I wonder how the EU will react
    The way the EU always reacts. Strongly worded letter to Moscow condemning the shooting down of civil aircraft.

    Over in the US, Obama is out fundraising....but he did mention the event as tragic... not yet confirmed if there were Americans on board. Once American casualties are confirmed he may raise it to outrageous, or something of the sort.
    Yeah O was raising money... But my point is that why is this only the US's problem and why aren't the Europeans taking the lead? If the EU isn't willing to make a stand, why should the US be bothered?

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