Asiana Airlines 777 crashes at San Fransisco.

[Bung]

At least 2 dead, 60 unaccounted for in San Francisco plane crash

Lee Romney, Maeve Reston and Andrew Blankstein
4:46 PM PDT, July 6, 2013

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A Boeing 777 passenger jet crashed on landing at San Francisco International Airport on Saturday, killing at least two on board and injuring dozens of others.
Officials said 60 passengers were still unaccounted for but said they were not presumed dead. Rather, officials said they were still trying to assess where all 307 passengers and crew members were taken.
The Asiana Airlines jetliner caught fire when it hit the tarmac, causing black smoke to billow into the sky.
Many passengers were able to get out of the plane before it was consumed by flames.
In a brief phone interview, a passenger who didn’t want to give his name told The Times that many passengers were able to get out unharmed. “Most of the people seem OK and we’re just letting the paramedics do their job,” he said.
Federal investigators were trying to determine what went wrong. But a source involved in the investigation said the plane appeared to have clipped a sea wall while landing. Mechanical difficulties have not been ruled out, but investigators are focused on whether Asiana flight 214 from Seoul, South Korea, came in too low, according to sources familiar with the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity.
The plane appeared to hit the sea wall dividing the airport runway from San Francisco Bay, possibly causing the tail to come apart.
Multiple sources told The Times that there was no reported trouble or declared emergency on the plane before it landed.
Witnesses described the plane coming in very low, and pictures and video from the accident appear to show that the debris field began at the sea wall and stretched for hundreds of feet.
Asked at a news conference if pilot error was a factor, Deborah Hersman, chairwoman of the National Transportation Safety Board, said “everything’s on the table at this point. We have to gather all the facts before we reach any conclusions.”
Hersman said that federal investigators are deploying now to examine the crash. She said officials from South Korea will also be invited to participate in the investigation.
Thousands of passengers were stranded at San Francisco International Airport after the crash, which occurred just before 11:30 a.m. Many stunned travelers watched the dramatic landing of the Boeing 777 from the huge plate-glass windows inside the terminal.
For hours after the crash, emergency vehicles with flashing lights swarmed around the plane, and other official vehicles went back and forth along the runway. Several police boats raced through the water near the runway.
“We are very shocked,” said South Korean Deputy Consul General Hong Sung Wok. “We have to take care of this sad situation. We will make all efforts to take care of these families. We also express our sorrows to the victims.”
He said he was told that most people were safe.
Ten Korean-speaking passengers are in critical condition at San Francisco General Hospital. Eight adults and two children were admitted, and the adults ranged in age between 20 to 40.
Four were men, and six were women. The hospital has had to set up tents outside the emergency room to accommodate additional patients from the crash who don’t require trauma care, said Rachael Kagan, a spokeswoman for the hospital.
"We have seen a variety of injuries you would associate with a crash or fire," Kagan said, including burns, fractures, and internal injuries. Some patients needed to go immediately into operating rooms.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...,2915398.story

[Bung]

[sabang]

From my glancing knowledge of the aviation industry, gleaned from knowledgeable people in HK, I determined to avoid Korean carriers and where possible Korean pilots.

[kingwilly]

Damn.

[Rural Surin]

From my glancing knowledge of the aviation industry, gleaned from knowledgeable people in HK, I determined to avoid Korean carriers and where possible Korean pilots.

Yes, a long-time personal policy for me as well.

[taxexile]

Asiana flight crash at San Francisco - Page 3 - PPRuNe Forums

[taxexile]

Having watched several photos on the media (live TV), I am shocked that several passengers walking away from the plane were carrying roller bags (which had to have been previously stowed in overhead bins), and large purses, and went down the slides with their bags (or did they toss their bags over ahead of sliding, still incorrect procedure?).

I wonder if casualties were exacerbated by delays in deplaning, which I assume delays had to have occurred in order to accomodate passengers carrying bags and large purses through the aisles and down the slides.

The investigation will need to carefully examine the behavior of the crew and their leadership and guidance to the passengers.

this from a post on the above pilots and crew forum.

the discipline of both passengers and crew on asian airlines, apart from singapore and cathay, leaves much to be desired.

passengers selfishly retrieving hand luggage, and the crew allowing it wastes precious seconds.

[Norton]

Watching coverage on TV. 2 confirmed dead, 1 missing, 5 in critical condition, the rest approx 300 minor injuries. Looking at the wreckage amazing so few fatalities.

[FailSafe]

According to a NTSB spokesman on CNN, t's been eleven years since there was a major crash at a US airport (and, with so few fatalities, this one won't be considered 'major', though it looks horrendous)- airline safety has really improved.

The weather was fine and the wind was light (8mph)- my money is on pilot error.

[Norton]

my money is on pilot error

Likely but early days. ILS (instrument landing system) problem possible.

[Boon Mee]

Ice crystals in the fuel supply was the reason a prior triple 7 went down. Way too early to assign blame.

Still haven't assigned blame (correctly) to that 747 that went down 10 + years ago over Long Island Sound. Errant missile?

[The Big Fella]

You would think that in this day and age there would be cameras positioned to film all landings and takeoffs at every airport to assist in investigations when things like this occur. The report I read had the tail falling off on landing. The reports of passengers taking hand luggage with them as they disembarked is worrying.

[taxexile]

Passenger: 'We just jumped off' plane - CNN.com Video

interview with passenger.

[Boon Mee]

Of the 307 people on board Asiana Airlines Flight 214, only one remains unaccounted for, authorities told reporters.

Two people died and 181 were taken to hospitals Saturday after the Boeing 777 crash-landed
at San Francisco International Airport, authorities said.
(CNN)

[beazalbob69]

Having watched several photos on the media (live TV), I am shocked that several passengers walking away from the plane were carrying roller bags (which had to have been previously stowed in overhead bins), and large purses, and went down the slides with their bags (or did they toss their bags over ahead of sliding, still incorrect procedure?).

I wonder if casualties were exacerbated by delays in deplaning, which I assume delays had to have occurred in order to accomodate passengers carrying bags and large purses through the aisles and down the slides.

The investigation will need to carefully examine the behavior of the crew and their leadership and guidance to the passengers.

this from a post on the above pilots and crew forum.

the discipline of both passengers and crew on asian airlines, apart from singapore and cathay, leaves much to be desired.

passengers selfishly retrieving hand luggage, and the crew allowing it wastes precious seconds.

So let me see out of the entire plane 2 people died and you are saying the discipline of asian airlines leaves a lot to be desired? What would make you say this? Because they had their luggage with them?

I am sure that if it was a Western Airline all of the wonderful Western passengers and crew would have sacrificed their precious belongings to save others.

More like the fat fucks would have gotten stuck in the isles trying to get their overstuffed (because they didn't want to pay the extra charge to stow another suitcase) carry on from the overhead bins. And I am sure the 65 year old woman hostess and the gay guy hostess that are on every goddam Western airline flight would have been big helps with the children and elderly.

Give me an asian airline anyday.

[Mid]

Retrieval of Carry-on Luggage

Currently, air carriers use two methods to instruct passengers not to take personal
belongings during an evacuation. The first method is the safety briefing card. All but two
of the safety briefing cards reviewed for this study indicated that carry-on luggage should
not be taken during an evacuation. The pictogram used to indicate “leave baggage” was a
suitcase in the center of a slashed circle. The second method is flight attendants’
commanding “leave everything” during the evacuation. Twenty-three of 37 flight
attendants indicated that they commanded passengers to leave everything behind. Despite
these methods, passengers often took their belongings.

Three flight attendants indicated that one way to prevent passengers from
removing carry-on baggage would be to include a statement in the preflight safety
briefing. Passengers likewise indicated the necessity of a preflight announcement
regarding carry-on baggage in emergencies. When asked how the safety briefing could be
improved, 16 passengers indicated that the preflight briefing should mention leaving
carry-on luggage behind.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...48705608,d.aGc

[taxexile]

Give me an asian airline anyday.

the culture and behaviour of the cockpit crew, cabin crew and ground crew will generally mirror the culture and behaviour found in the country.

asian culture = lax enforcement of procedure, bending of rules, refusal to challenge those of higher rank even if they are making mistakes etc.etc.etc.

[beazalbob69]

Retrieval of Carry-on Luggage

Currently, air carriers use two methods to instruct passengers not to take personal
belongings during an evacuation. The first method is the safety briefing card. All but two
of the safety briefing cards reviewed for this study indicated that carry-on luggage should
not be taken during an evacuation. The pictogram used to indicate “leave baggage” was a
suitcase in the center of a slashed circle. The second method is flight attendants’
commanding “leave everything” during the evacuation. Twenty-three of 37 flight
attendants indicated that they commanded passengers to leave everything behind. Despite
these methods, passengers often took their belongings.

Three flight attendants indicated that one way to prevent passengers from
removing carry-on baggage would be to include a statement in the preflight safety
briefing. Passengers likewise indicated the necessity of a preflight announcement
regarding carry-on baggage in emergencies. When asked how the safety briefing could be
improved, 16 passengers indicated that the preflight briefing should mention leaving
carry-on luggage behind.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...48705608,d.aGc

555 that is funny. Nobody even listens to the pre flight safety BS anymore too busy with their electronic gadgets to care. I don't think mentioning it in the pre flight announcment will make any difference what so ever.

[beazalbob69]

Give me an asian airline anyday.

the culture and behaviour of the cockpit crew, cabin crew and ground crew will generally mirror the culture and behaviour found in the country.

asian culture = lax enforcement of procedure, bending of rules, refusal to challenge those of higher rank even if they are making mistakes etc.etc.etc.

That is true tax.

Western culture = spotty enforcement of procedure, bending of rules (if they can get away with it), Everyone thinks they are more important (sense of entitlement) than the next person regardless of actual rank, large groups when put into a life threatening situation form an almost cattle like mentality and stampede etc. etc. etc.

How is any any better? or any worse for that matter?

[taxexile]

if i was on a plane, a boat, a bus or a train that got into difficulties in any way, i feel i would have a better chance of survival if the vehicle was operated by westerners and had been maintained by westerners and was crewed by westerners. i dont consider russians to be western.

westerners in general take their professional responsibilities more seriously than their asian, african, eastern european etc. counterparts.

western standards of qualification, training, recertification are all higher, and the penalties for non compliance are harsher and uniformly enforced. that goes for all professions.

yes, there are cases of western incompetence and failure, especially in these economically difficult times where corners are increasingly cut, but nevertheless i maintain that western standards are higher than asian ones.

[beazalbob69]

but nevertheless i maintain that western standards are higher than asian ones.

Fair enough, I agree with you on this point, but I don't think it makes any difference in a plane crash. Your survival is in your hands nobody else's.

[wackyjacky]

"refusal to challenge those of higher rank even if they are making mistakes etc.etc.etc." - Agree w/that part anyway. I'm still a big OZ fan. I guess I'd rather take my life in my hands than suffer the service on a western airline. In fact (this may be sick), I looked for OZ award availability on that same flight in Sept on the UA website this morning. BTW, I thought the autopilot lands the plane 90% of the time.

[taxexile]

Your survival is in your hands nobody else's.

not if your way to the exit is blocked by a chinaman struggling to get his 42" flatscreen out of the overheads.

[Mid]

Your survival is in your hands nobody else's.

Wrong , and you with that attitude will no doubt be responsible for a lack of survivors .

[toslti]

my money is on pilot error

Likely but early days. ILS (instrument landing system) problem possible.

There was no glide slope PAPI in operation on the day and this was announced in the notams.

Q) KZOA/QLPAS/IV/BO/A/000/999/3737N12223W005
B) FROM: 13/07/06 22:19C) TO: 13/07/08 22:19 EST
E) RWY 28L PAPI U/S

It was visual approach only.

Given that the first signs or landing are on the wall of the sea wall at the end of the runway it looks like they touched down too early.

Maybe they'd worked for Lion Air previously!