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  1. #1
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    Joss Stone death plotters win appeal




    Kevin Liverpool (left) had his minimum term cut by more than four years and Junior Bradshaw's 18-year sentence was reduced to 10

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    Two men convicted of plotting to kill UK singer Joss Stone have won appeals that will reduce their jail terms.

    Junior Bradshaw, 33, and Kevin Liverpool, 36, both from Manchester were convicted of conspiracy to murder and rob the singer at her Devon home.

    Liverpool, originally given life with a minimum term of 10 years and eight months, has had the tariff

    Bradshaw's 18-year sentence was cut to 10 years by Court of Appeal judges.

    The men, both of St Stephen's Close, Longsight, had previously staked out Miss Stone's home and were on their way to attack her when they were arrested in Cullompton, Devon, in June 2011.

    Miss Stone was at home in Ashill when the pair were detained, Exeter Crown Court heard during their trial.

    They were both found guilty of conspiracy to murder and conspiracy to rob, following the three-week hearing.


    Joss Stone was at her Devon home when the pair were arrested nearby

    The pair had loaded a car with two hammers, gaffer tape, a metal spike, lock knives, gloves and a balaclava before they drove to Devon, on June 13, 2011.

    However, the trial was told the pair crashed their car north of Bristol and then got lost as they hunted for Miss Stone's home.

    Residents who spotted their damaged car being driven in a suspicious manner called police and the pair were stopped and arrested .

    At the defendants' appeal hearing, lawyers representing Liverpool argued a life sentence was wrong, while Bradshaw's legal team said he had been enlisted into the plan by Liverpool.

    Giving the court's judgment, Lady Justice Macur said it was "clear" Liverpool's life term was justified but given the lack of physical and psychological harm caused, the minimum term was too long.

    She said that as Bradshaw was treated "as a foot soldier", a reduction in sentence should also be made.

    Given time spent in custody and the shorter jail terms, Liverpool could be free by 2017 and Bradshaw by 2016


    BBC News - Joss Stone death plotters win appeal

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick
    Junior Bradshaw, 33, and Kevin Liverpool, 36, both from Manchester were convicted of conspiracy to murder and rob the singer at her Devon home.
    That's pretty serious, and they were on their way to do it too.

    So, what will they serve, 3 years? Doesn't seem much for planning to kill an innocent person in their home...

  3. #3
    Thailand Expat cyrille's Avatar
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    I remember thinking at the time those were harsh sentences for two guys who clearly lacked the half a brain needed to be dangerous.

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    You don't need half a brain to go and kill someone for no reason... That's not a defense though, or half the killers in prison worldwide would be released.

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    That's not a defense though, or half the killers in prison worldwide would be released.
    Not actually being a killer and not actually having come that close to being one seems a good reason to not be serving 18 years though, wouldn't you say?

    Do you not think 18 years is harsh?

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    If the British penal system is any thing to go by in recent weeks, they will be absconding from an open prison in a couple of months.

    Pretty serious stuff when they were in the vicinity of the place they intended to rob and murder the occupant/owner. These guys are rubbish people who in the interest of public safety shouldn't be allowed to roam the streets for a considerable amount of time

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    Not actually being a killer and not actually having come that close to being one seems a good reason to not be serving 18 years though, wouldn't you say?

    Do you not think 18 years is harsh?
    I haven't seen the full evidence, so I cannot really say. But, as Mr Lick says, if they were on their way to murder somebody who they didn't know, but just wanted to kill her for money, and it was only luck that stopped them, nothing they did stopped them, they had made their plans and were on the way to carrying them out - seems pretty serious to me. If I'd planned to kill somebody and was on my way to do it, but got caught, I'd expect a long prison sentence...
    How do I post these pictures???

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    Thailand Expat cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick
    intended
    Heavy sentences for an 'intention'.

    I'm not denying it was a serious thing.

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    There must be levels of intention though... Sitting at home, saying I intend to do something, is quite different from making a plan, getting a mate to help me and driving right to the crime destination, stopped by locals spotting them and calling the police - that's going quite far down the road of intention. How many more minutes before they would have killed her???

  10. #10
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    just the look of them .
    the death penalty would do.

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    ^^So, just to be clear, you think 18 years was about right?

    I mean you seem to be suggesting it is, rather than just really saying that it's impossible to say without seeing all the evidence.

    There doesn't seem to be much factually in dispute here, after all.

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    Thailand Expat cyrille's Avatar
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    Giving the court's judgment, Lady Justice Macur said it was "clear" Liverpool's life term was justified but given the lack of physical and psychological harm caused, the minimum term was too long.
    To me that seems a sensible judgement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    So, just to be clear, you think 18 years was about right?
    I'm talking about time served, and I wouldn't wanna see them serving less than 5 years each. I haven't seen the evidence, I could easily imagine, with the right evidence to support what I've read, that 10 years each would be fine too.

    Is there any doubt at all that they fully intended to kill this innocent person who was unknown to them?

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    Long sentences tend to to reduce crime rates, remember [when I wore blue] burglarizes were high, CPS and courts cracked down. Burglary dropped, thief from automobiles went up.
    2 years burglary, no time for cars, give 20 years for littering and no littering, give suspended sentences for bank robbery and lots of banks get robbed.
    Nature of junkies and shit heads, don't steal, kill if it means real time.

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    "The pair had loaded a car with two hammers, gaffer tape, a metal spike, lock knives, gloves and a balaclava before they drove to Devon, on June 13, 2011".

    So they will be out in 2yrs and 3 years. What a fxcking joke.

    You can get 8 months prison time for non payment of Council tax.

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    'During the trial, the prosecution said notes written by Liverpool showed the accused wanted to behead Ms Stone and dump her body in the river because of her links to the Royal Family'


    In my view the appeal Judge has made light of the serious intent that these two offenders were planning.



    What happened to Guy Fawkes btw?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick View Post
    'During the trial, the prosecution said notes written by Liverpool showed the accused wanted to behead Ms Stone and dump her body in the river because of her links to the Royal Family'

    That would be extenuating circumstances and surely explains the judges decision to cut their sentences.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    That's not a defense though, or half the killers in prison worldwide would be released.
    Not actually being a killer and not actually having come that close to being one seems a good reason to not be serving 18 years though, wouldn't you say?

    Do you not think 18 years is harsh?
    Should Richard Reid the dumb wannabe shoe bomber have his sentence discounted for being unable to ignite a bomb that he managed to get through security? What about the wannabe crotch bomber, who failed to down a plane because the sweat in his pants caused his bomb to malfunction?

    No, 18 years is not too harsh. If scum intend to kill someone they should be sentenced as though they had succeeded, even if as you say, they are endowed with just half a brain.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by leemo
    If scum intend to kill someone they should be sentenced as though they had succeeded
    That is not correct.

    Sentences should include components both for premeditated intent and for actual victim impact (as well as other factors).

    If the plan failed early and the victim was not impacted, other than to know about the intention to harm, then the sentence should be substantially less than if the accused succeeded.

    If intention to harm is all that matters then someone who accidentally hits someone in a car when driving too fast or driving drunk should always walk since they did not intend to do any harm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick
    'During the trial, the prosecution said notes written by Liverpool showed the accused wanted to behead Ms Stone and dump her body in the river because of her links to the Royal Family'
    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    If intention to harm is all that matters then someone who accidentally hits someone in a car when driving too fast or driving drunk should always walk since they did not intend to do any harm.
    Chalk and cheese, typical lawyer speak... Sorry, Loops...

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    Criminal components in many countries including England, are made up of 'Mens Rea' (intent) and Actus Reus (the act itself).

    Although in this case the heinous act wasn't carried out, the conduct of the two men was enough to achieve a conviction of conspiracy to murder.

    It would be wrong to release these very dangerous men anytime soon. The public need to have confidence in the justice system, which in recent times has been tottering on the edge of gross stupidity.

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    20 prisons closing during the past year appears to be having a dire effect on some of the judiciary and senior penal staff. They have been extremely embarrassed in recent times in giving dangerous prisoners the opportunity of absconding, quite outrageous that people with such a heavy burden of responsibility for public safety can be so blasť.
    Last edited by Mr Lick; 21-05-2014 at 02:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    That's not a defense though, or half the killers in prison worldwide would be released.
    Not actually being a killer and not actually having come that close to being one seems a good reason to not be serving 18 years though, wouldn't you say?

    Do you not think 18 years is harsh?
    Hell no, not long enough.
    The men were on their way to attack her when they were arrested.

    Joss Stone was at her Devon home when the pair were arrested nearby

    The pair had loaded a car with two hammers, gaffer tape, a metal spike, lock knives, gloves and a balaclava.
    These are two crazy dangerous people that need to be kept segregated from civilized society as long as possible, next time they might not bungle it.
    This is one of those cases where in a couple of years at the trial for home invasion and murder of a family, we hear how lenient the judges were releasing these two back into society after they were on their way to do it last time.
    "In my professional assessment as an intelligence officer, Trump has a reflexive, defensive, monumentally narcissistic personality, for whom the facts and national interest are irrelevant, and the only thing that counts is whatever gives personal advantage and directs attention to himself."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    Sitting at home, saying I intend to do something, is quite different from making a plan, getting a mate to help me and driving right to the crime destination, stopped by locals spotting them and calling the police - that's going quite far down the road of intention.
    Well they were charged with conspiracy. You dont get charged for conspiracy for sitting at home thinking of something. The punishment would be less if they were caught in the verbal planning stage. So I think they do in fact take levels of intent into consideration. In this case intent was pretty clear cut.

    Only mens rea occurs here, no actus rea so no murder. There is actus ria for conspiracy to murder so thats what the charge is.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Lick View Post
    If the British penal system is any thing to go by in recent weeks, they will be absconding from an open prison in a couple of months.
    Lets hope Will I Am is in town at the time

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