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  1. #1
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    Man tricks GF w/ taking abortion pill. 14 years prison

    What say you?

    http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/27/ma...ars-in-prison/
    Man who tricked girlfriend into taking abortion pill sentenced to nearly 14 years in prison

    PM 01/27/2014

    The Florida man accused of tricking his (now ex) girlfriend into taking an abortion inducing drug to cause her to miscarry their unborn child has been sentenced to nearly 14 years behind bars.

    U.S. District Judge Richard A. Lazzara sentenced 29-year-old John Andrew Welden Monday, saying that while he did not think Weldon was an evil person, his action was evil.

    “[A]nd for that he is going to have to pay the consequences,” Lazzara said, according to the Tampa Bay Times, sentencing Welden to 13 years and eight months in prison.

    Welden accepted a plea deal last year to avoid a possible life sentence if convicted of murder under the federal Unborn Victims of Violence Act, instead pleading to product tampering and mail fraud.


    Welden found himself facing a possible life sentence after his girlfriend Remee Jo Lee refused to abort their baby and he tricked her into taking a Cytotec pill, resulting in her miscarriage.

    She was nearly seven weeks pregnant.

    “He took away the most precious thing I ever had.” Lee said during the sentencing, according to Bay News 9. “This isn’t just a case to me. This is the death of my child.”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/27/ma...#ixzz2rkpP9bmI
    ............

  2. #2
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    harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    I'm guessing that judge is a jesus wheezer.

  3. #3
    punk douche bag
    ChiangMai noon's Avatar
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    according to many christians, the soul passes into the zygote upon conception

    murder

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat
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    so he didn't want the baby but she did.

    No doubt she would have expected 18 years of support from him though.

    14 years seems to be way over the top, imo.

  5. #5
    Lord of Swine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurgen View Post
    so he didn't want the baby but she did.

    No doubt she would have expected 18 years of support from him though.

    14 years seems to be way over the top, imo.

    All a bit one sided isn't it?

    I wonder what would have happened if he wanted the baby and she aborted it?

  6. #6
    punk douche bag
    ChiangMai noon's Avatar
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    we lost 3 pregnancies between 8 and 12 weeks before finally getting success

    very good chance that the pregnancy wouldn't have gone full course

    that has nothing to do with the case, just saying like

  7. #7
    Philippine Expat Davis Knowlton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurgen View Post

    14 years seems to be way over the top, imo.
    I agree. Especially given several recent US news reports of ludicrously short sentences being meted out for vehicular homicide while drunk, rape, etc.

    But it's the US, where states pretty much do what they want and redneck local judges in states such as Florida are free to impose whatever sentence they wish, according to their own - in this case obviously pro-life - beliefs.

    Before the whining starts, I'm not condoning what the guy did - but I think the sentence is harsh.

  8. #8
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    If the woman aborts, it's her choice.

    If the man aborts it's murder.

    She makes it sound like this was her only chance to have a kid. It is not.

    Two questions I have are:

    1. Did she get pregnant by accident or was it intentionally done without the guys consent? (It's not relevant to the case, but I'm curious.)

    2. How did she discover she took that pill? I assume after the miscarriage she went to the doctor and they performed blood tests found the substance.

    The punishment is too harsh for the crime, IMO.

  9. #9
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    DrB0b's Avatar
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    So none of you would have any problem with somebody spiking your food and drink with drugs? How about somebody putting abortion drugs into your pregnant wife's food or drink. What a bunch of misogynist cretins!

  10. #10
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    I'm with DrB0b on this one.

    We all know the score, if you have sex with a girl she can get pregnant. Personally I wouldn't be happy about a girl aborting a child I had fathered, and that is not for any religious reason.

    Drugging a woman in order to kill her unborn child is sick.

    Has his granny got a few bob? Maybe it would be better to get her out of the way too.
    I see fish. They are everywhere. They don't know they are fish.

  11. #11
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    women need to learn to suck cock - should be a govt health initative - spend those tax dollars on something that will save the taxpayer money

    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b
    somebody spiking your food and drink with drugs?
    how many people understand what is in their processed food ?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    women need to learn to suck cock - should be a govt health initative - spend those tax dollars on something that will save the taxpayer money

    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b
    somebody spiking your food and drink with drugs?
    how many people understand what is in their processed food ?
    I think it's very unlikely that any processed foods routinely contain high-strength abortifacients.

  13. #13
    Balls to Monty
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    I think they should apply a sliding scale to foetal crime sentencing. The base sentence could be determined according to the crime as if the victim was a fully developed human and then reduced pro-rata based on the term of the pregnancy. i.e. 2 months pregnant = 2/7 x 14 years = 4 years.

    A human embryo probably develops human consciousness gradually as the brain develops. The degree to which you are ending a human life unlawfully depends on the maturity of the embryo.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    I think they should apply a sliding scale to foetal crime sentencing. The base sentence could be determined according to the crime as if the victim was a fully developed human and then reduced pro-rata based on the term of the pregnancy. i.e. 2 months pregnant = 2/7 x 14 years = 4 years.

    A human embryo probably develops human consciousness gradually as the brain develops. The degree to which you are ending a human life unlawfully depends on the maturity of the embryo.
    Quote Originally Posted by barbaro
    “He took away the most precious thing I ever had.” Lee said during the sentencing, according to Bay News 9. “This isn’t just a case to me. This is the death of my child.”
    FFS. He drugged a woman, against her will, to cause an abortion. That's a thoroughly despicable thing to do. What's wrong with you people that you think there's ANY excuse for doing that? I read a case a while ago where a man who, unknown to his wife, was HIV positive, injected his wife with his own HIV infected blood so that she too would be infected and not leave him when she found out he was HIV positive. I suppose you lot consider that acceptable too? Is there any assault on a woman you would disapprove of?
    The Above Post May Contain Strong Language, Flashing Lights, or Violent Scenes.

  15. #15
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b
    I think it's very unlikely that any processed foods routinely contain high-strength abortifacients.
    not all food and drink spiking is high strength abortifacients

    could be just plain old MSG

  16. #16
    Lord of Swine
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    Sorry Looper, that is silly on so many levels.
    Life is life.


    I don't think anyone is saying that what he did is right, only questioning the situation if the roles where reversed.

  17. #17
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    I think they should apply a sliding scale to foetal crime sentencing.
    so at which stage should you be charged with peadophillia when you shag a pregnant woman ?

  18. #18
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    I remember talking to a doctor about this once. She had carried out abortions that were medical necessities and described how the foetus flinches and clearly feels pain.

    Sorry but that was enough for me.

  19. #19
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thormaturge
    the foetus flinches and clearly feels pain.
    so now you are a vegetarian ?

  20. #20
    Balls to Monty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necron99
    Life is life.
    Human sperm is also life. So is an embryo and so is a human.

    A fully developed human is a special case of life.

    But at what stage does an embryo qualify as a human being?

    For legal purposes you can choose to say life begins at conception or life begins at birth. An alternative approach would be to say that a legal human develops from legal value = 0 to legal value = human during gestation and pro-rate sentencing accordingly.

  21. #21
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    My original point was that this action was taken because the guy didn't want the financial responsibility of a child.

    I can understand that but I still don't condone killing something just for money, and especially drugging another person in the process. No wonder he didn't want the kid, he clearly felt nothing for his ex-girlfriend.

  22. #22
    Lord of Swine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thormaturge
    I remember talking to a doctor about this once. She had carried out abortions that were medical necessities and described how the foetus flinches and clearly feels pain. Sorry but that was enough for me.
    so does a fish

    Quote Originally Posted by Necron99
    Life is life.
    Human sperm is also life. So is an embryo and so is a human.

    A fully developed human is a special case of life.

    The defining characteristics of human life over that of other animals and plants is our consciousness which gives rise to our sense of ourselves as humans with a sense of morality.

    But at what stage does an embryo qualify as a human being?

    For legal purposes you can choose to say life begins at conception or life begins at birth. An alternative approach would be to say that a legal human develops from legal value = 0 to legal value = human during gestation and pro-rate sentencing accordingly.

    Life has a legal definition. At whatever age a voluntary abortion my no longer take place in the jurisdiction.

    By what you are saying you could argue for less of a sentence for killing a severely disabled person. (not a fully developed person)

    You could also use the argument to say killing a 90 year old is not as bad as killing a child so deserved a lesser sentence.

  23. #23
    Tax Consultant
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thormaturge
    the foetus flinches and clearly feels pain.
    so now you are a vegetarian ?
    No, an omnivore with a growing conscience.

    I eat very little meat these days.

    Eggs are Ok aren't they?

    Also gone right off milk after reading what's in it these days.

  24. #24
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    Human sperm is also life.
    like a skin flake ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    A fully developed human is a special case of life.
    evolution does not give a sh1t about humans

  25. #25
    Balls to Monty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necron99
    Life has a legal definition. At whatever age a voluntary abortion my no longer take place in the jurisdiction.
    The law and sentencing is an approximation at a best compromise for policing society. The law as it stands in some jurisdictions says 3 months gestation is life and before that is not life. That is no better an approximation than my sliding scale suggestion IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necron99
    By what you are saying you could argue for less of a sentence for killing a severely disabled person. (not a fully developed person) You could also use the argument to say killing a 90 year old is not as bad as killing a child so deserved a lesser sentence.
    That is true. You could argue that legal worthiness of life be mapped to sentience and cognitive powers but it is not a realistic suggestion as it is too difficult to measure and to easily subject to abuse.

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