Thread: Piece of plane found near WTC.

Fishy yes, just put the serial number in a google search. One site an aircraft buff forum seem to be of the opinion that it is in fact a flap assembly, not landing gear. Jim

Originally Posted by ENT

No clue what the cops did on site as ifrst officers.
Usual procedure these days is don't touch, establish excusion zone, move in the forensic team, then after ALL material has been recovered by them, the cops can move in along with FBI etc.

How strictly US cops follow that procedure is anyone's guess.

It wasn't the police who found it.

And who knows what was done before the police arrived on scene?

You don't.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Fishy yes, just put the serial number in a google search. One site an aircraft buff forum seem to be of the opinion that it is in fact a flap assembly, not landing gear. Jim

Thanks Jim, cool.

Getting info from gov. is like trying to get an honest statement from a a banker, it's all loaded.

Think the whole things is just smoke and mirrors, if the bits did come from one of the 2 planes, what possible forensics could they get from them. Finger prints from a aircraft machinist, these parts are outside the cabin, Or did the terrorist get to check out the alleged landing gear before take off.
If someone stuck the stuff there on April first way make a federal investigation out of it.
Just put up an A frame, put a chain on it and pull it up the way it went in.
Either way it's a waste of money investigating a piece of scrap metal just so some people can have their 15 minutes a fame in front of a TV. Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Think the whole things is just smoke and mirrors, if the bits did come from one of the 2 planes, what possible forensics could they get from them. Finger prints from a aircraft machinist, these parts are outside the cabin, Or did the terrorist get to check out the alleged landing gear before take off.
If someone stuck the stuff there on April first way make a federal investigation out of it.
Just put up an A frame, put a chain on it and pull it up the way it went in.
Either way it's a waste of money investigating a piece of scrap metal just so some people can have their 15 minutes a fame in front of a TV. Jim

Exactly.
Well said.
I really don't know why it's still being talked about.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Either way it's a waste of money investigating a piece of scrap metal just so some people can have their 15 minutes a fame in front of a TV. Jim

If that were the reason for the investigation, the whole world would be Hollywood, Jim.
Sure, a lot of people (esp. cops) love getting their 15 mins of fame, pics in the press, tv etc, agreed on that,

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Think the whole things is just smoke and mirrors, if the bits did come from one of the 2 planes, what possible forensics could they get from them. Finger prints from a aircraft machinist, these parts are outside the cabin, Or did the terrorist get to check out the alleged landing gear before take off.
If someone stuck the stuff there on April first way make a federal investigation out of it.
Just put up an A frame, put a chain on it and pull it up the way it went in.
Either way it's a waste of money investigating a piece of scrap metal just so some people can have their 15 minutes a fame in front of a TV. Jim

I think the primary mission is to see if there are any identifiable human remains, which is a *possibility*. There are a myriad of reasons for doing so.

Originally Posted by ENT

What a lot of people don't comprehend is that forensic examination of a crime scene, which is what this latest find's created, is nothing like that which is depicted in movies and so on.

There's very good reason for doing a microscopic check of all that's in that area,...to eliminate anything that's not connected to 9/11. Then what actually happened, how exactly that plane part got to where it was found may be determined.

The area has been declared as and is being treated as a crime scene, which is what it is, unlike what happened on 10/11/2001, when the authorities, Bush et al, ordered all the evidence to be destroyed and dumped, immediately.

Now, 12 years (nearly) down the track the powers that be are being far mor careful, less cavalier about dealing with evidence at a suspected crime scene. Things have changed, especially since forensic protocols and practices became standardised and more rigidly enforced by most western countries in 2006/7. Science took the place of cops in gathering evidence and deciding what constitutes evidence or not.

All the dust and debris is going to be examined. Then a lab report is going to be prepared and presented to the enquiring body, in this case it appears to be the NY health dept.
The FBI will take over from there, not the NYPD, whose job will be to maintain and safeguard the evidential area only, until directed to chase up the perps in this case, the chap(s) who roped and dumped that plane part where it was found.

Finger-prints? Only of the latest handlers of the object.
Fibres? Could be the perp's hair caught up in the rope or snagged on the metal or lying in the dust.
DNA? Skin cells are shed all over the place. They'll likely be caught up especially in the rope.
Artefact? That can include cigarette buts, old chewing gum, anything man made and used.
The list goes on.
Dozens of lab workers, all scientists, will be spending hundreds or thousands of man-hours poring over minute particles of matter in sterile isolation to determine the cause of this latest phenomenon of 9/11.

Then the part found will be sent to Iron Mountain. to be stored until needed.
Then a report on the whole deal may be published but maybe not released to the media.

And unless there are leaks of information, no one will be any the wiser about the matter.

So it's all a bit boring from now on, nothing like the movies, eh.
Unless a surprise new development turns up.
Sure beats an FBI stooge's finding of an Arab's passport among the debris on 10/11/2001.

Nice read there, CSI Los Vegas or the conspiracy CIA hand book.
First this is not a crime scene, not even a secondary crime scene unless some one put the junk there. If the thing came from 9/11 it will not prove or have any forensic evidence relevant to the hi jacking.
If someone put it there last week, then what, big investigation using the full resources of the FBI. Hunt down the villains and bring charges of conspiracy to litter or illegal dumping.
Just a big show for the public, nothing will come of all the time and money wasted. Jim

^ It is being treated as a crime scene.

You seem to forget 3,000 odd people were murdered.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

.

First this is not a crime scene, not even a secondary crime scene unless some one put the junk there. If the thing came from 9/11 it will not prove or have any forensic evidence relevant to the hi jacking.
If someone put it there last week, then what, big investigation using the full resources of the FBI. Hunt down the villains and bring charges of conspiracy to litter or illegal dumping.
Just a big show for the public, nothing will come of all the time and money wasted. Jim[/quote]
-----

Actually Jim, the area's already been declared a crime scene by the cops et al.
The reason for that is most likely because of the unusual circumstances of the find, no indication of how it got there other than a rope and pulley.

That one fact would have put it in the "very unusual" bracket and worthy of investigating.
Also it's a piece of aircraft identical to what could have come from one of the Boeings supposed to be involved in the 9/11 explosions.
Just the clearly visible word "BOEING" on the artefact woyuld have been enough to arouse intense interest in it.

I honestly don't believe it's just a big show for the public, unless of course it's a diversion tactic to take public focus away from either the Boston bombing or some other national problem, which seems a ling stretch at the moment.

I could be wrong.

What is puzzling me though, is that no further info is available about the casting number itself, or of any other identifying characteristics on the rest of the assembly, which were not part of the cast part.

April 28, 2013

NEW YORK (AP) — The medical examiner’s office plans to search for Sept. 11 human remains in an alley behind a mosque near the World Trade Center where airplane landing gear was suddenly discovered.

The chief medical examiner’s spokeswoman, Ellen Borakove, said the area first will be tested as part of a standard health and safety evaluation for possible toxicity. She said sifting for human remains is to begin Tuesday morning.


“The finding of this landing gear,” he said, “just goes to show that we need federal people in here to do a comprehensive, full search of lower Manhattan to make sure that we don’t get any more surprises,” as happened in 2007 when body parts were discovered in nearby sewers and manhole covers.


The New York Police Department has declared the alley, between the mosque site and a luxury loft rental building, a crime scene where nothing may be disturbed until the medical examiner’s office completes its work. It’s unclear how long that may take, Borakove said.


The piece of wreckage was discovered Wednesday by surveyors inspecting the planned Islamic community center, known as Park51, on behalf of the building’s owner, police said.


An inspector on the mosque site’s roof noticed the debris, which includes a clearly visible Boeing Co. identification number, police spokesman Paul Browne said.


Chicago-based Boeing spokesman John Dern could not confirm whether the ID matched the American Airlines plane or the United Airlines plane hijacked by Islamic extremists on Sept. 11, 2001. He said Boeing has been asked to take part in the examination of images of the airplane part by the National Transportation Safety Board, which is providing assistance to New York authorities overseeing the probe.

The commissioner noted that a piece of rope intertwined with the part looks like a broken pulley that may have come down from the roof of the Islamic community center.


Excerpts from;

Landing gear found near World Trade Center Davis Enterprise

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

^ It is being treated as a crime scene.

You seem to forget 3,000 odd people were murdered.

No I didn't forget, but things like this just bring back memories to the families of the victims, raise false hopes for answers.
If the authorities had just said a piece of a 9/11 plane may have been found, quietly removed it. done their tests, OK, but no. Everyone one wants to get on TV talking about searches for human remains and forensics that may bring facts as yet unknown, when it fact it will shed as much light as a dumped car would. Jim

Here's a question for those who have good internet and skills.
How many bits of junk have been found in NY since 9/11 that may have come from the attack. How many were designated as a scene of a crime and a full blown FBI investigation started. Jim

Very few were designated as crime scenes.

In future, possibly more such finds may cause their locales to be designated such.
In the distant future archaeologists and forensic anthropologists will take over the search for and custody of any further remains.

As the old guard fades away, so too will their spheres of influence and younger and more enquiring minds will look for explanations to an event that is so far far from satisfactorily explained.

The Bush dynasty is over.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Here's a question for those who have good internet and skills.
How many bits of junk have been found in NY since 9/11 that may have come from the attack. How many were designated as a scene of a crime and a full blown FBI investigation started. Jim

"Full blown FBI investigation"?

It's an NYPD crime scene being checked by the Medical Examiner's office.

When did the FBI get involved?

It was suggested that they become involved at some later point.


“The finding of this landing gear,” he said, “just goes to show that we need federal people in here to do a comprehensive, full search of lower Manhattan to make sure that we don’t get any more surprises,” as happened in 2007 when body parts were discovered in nearby sewers and manhole covers.

Landing gear found near World Trade Center Davis Enterprise

so who did it ? did we find the guilty parties for playing that new joke on 911 ?

will they ever release the Pentagon cam footage ?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

....will they ever release the Pentagon cam footage ?

Hardly likely, not under the current regime, maybe not for a generation.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Here's a question for those who have good internet and skills.
How many bits of junk have been found in NY since 9/11 that may have come from the attack. How many were designated as a scene of a crime and a full blown FBI investigation started. Jim

"Full blown FBI investigation"?

It's an NYPD crime scene being checked by the Medical Examiner's office.

When did the FBI get involved?

Think the FBI got involved as soon as the word airplane was mentioned. NYPD do not have jurisdiction over Federal Aviation. NYPD may be controlling the site, but the Feds will be in charge. Jim

^ I also think that's how it went.

FBI just don't talk.

I think they will launch an investigation if they are asked to. I haven't seen any suggestion of it so far, just a few quotes from Feds who worked on the original investigation, viz:

The find was less shocking to Kenneth Maxwell, one of the FBI's chief supervisors of the recovery operation after 9/11.

Maxwell, who was then the assistant special agent in charge of the FBI's Counterterrorism Division in New York, told DNAinfo.com New York that in the aftermath of the World Trade Center attacks, Lower Manhattan was "like a war zone," and the federal government's focus was on getting the area back to normal as quickly as possible, not on collecting every piece of evidence from the blocks surrounding Ground Zero.

"We didn't need the plane as part of the forensic collection," Maxwell said, because authorities already knew exactly what had happened, so there was no need to reconstruct the plane fragments.

"[It was a] uniquely different crime scene approach," Maxwell added, "where there was a balance of collecting and preserving debris for DNA collection, and remediation of the area."

New developments. Authorities are close to ID'ing the mystery bit found behind the mosque last Wednesday.

From the Mail, we get this report:


Boeing confirmed that the five-foot piece of rusted plane that was found behind the proposed location of a mosque just blocks from Ground Zero is in fact a part of one of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center more than a decade ago.
Officials said the 5-foot piece is a trailing edge flap support structure, police said.

It is located closer to the body of the plane and helps secure wing flaps that move in and out and aid in regulating plane speed.


Pivotal piece: The machinery was originally thought to be part of the engine but it is actually a portion of the 767 Trailing Edge Flaps from one of the two planes that slammed into the World Trade Center

Investigators initially thought it was part of the landing gear because both pieces have similar-looking hydraulics.

Boeing officials told police the part came from one of its 767 airliners, but it isn't possible to determine which flight.

Both hijacked planes that struck the towers, American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175, were Boeing 767s.

Workers discovered the part Wednesday between a luxury loft rental building and a mosque that in 2010 prompted virulent national debate about Islam and freedom of speech in part because it's near the trade center site.

Read more: Boeing identifies piece of 'engine' found blocks from Ground Zero as part of the wing flap from 9/11 plane | Mail Online
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