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  1. #1
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    The next war has begun.

    It's unfortunate but in my view a necessary evil.
    Cameron: War against al-Qaeda in Africa could last decades
    War against al-Qaeda in Africa could last decades
    Britain faces a battle against Islamic extremism in North Africa and the Sahara that could last for decades, David Cameron warned on Sunday.

    Mokhtar Belmokhtar has claimed responsibility for the 'blessed operation', which he said was a response to the French military intervention in Mali, which borders Algeria to the south Photo: REUTERS
    By James Kirkup, Deputy Political Editor10:00PM GMT 20 Jan 2013
    The Prime Minister said that countering the rise of al-Qaeda-affiliated groups in the Sahel region will require an “iron resolve” and greater military, diplomatic and economic engagement with the region.
    He spoke as it was confirmed that six British citizens had died after extremists took scores of hostages at a gas plant in eastern Algeria.
    France on Sunday night called the hostage-taking “an act of war”.
    Some of the dead were “executed” by their captors as Algerian forces stormed the In Amenas complex, William Hague confirmed.
    One witness described how a Briton was forced to call out to colleagues to lure them out of hiding, then shot dead.
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    Algeria hostage crisis: militant leader claims he was in contact with British 20 Jan 2013
    Sources have confirmed that 28 British nationals and one UK resident were involved in the incident, which began last Wednesday.
    All 22 British survivors were back in Britain on Sunday and were undergoing intensive debriefing by the Foreign Office and MI6.
    Of the remaining six, three have been confirmed dead, and three are missing, presumed dead.
    Algerian officials on Sunday warned that their initial estimate that 23 hostages had lost their lives was likely to increase after the discovery of 25 charred bodies inside the gas plant. As the Algerian government announced that the worst terrorist hostage-taking in recent years was finally at an end, fresh information came to light, including:
    • Out of the 32 hostage-takers, up to five were reported to have been captured alive by the Algerian special forces team that stormed the gas plant last week;
    • Up to five of the militants who took part in the attack on the plant were employees there, raising fears of an inside job or infiltration by extremists;
    • Mokhtar Belmokhtar, an extremist linked to al-Qaeda, on Sunday released a video taking responsibility for the “blessed operation”, which he said was a response to the French military intervention in Mali, which borders Algeria to the south.
    Speaking at Chequers on Sunday, Mr Cameron acknowledged that the terrorist threat in North Africa had grown and he predicted a prolonged struggle to meet it.
    “It will require a response that is about years, even decades, rather than months and it requires a response that is patient, that is painstaking, that is tough but also intelligent, but above all has an absolutely iron resolve; and that is what we will deliver over these coming years,” he said.
    William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, signalled that could mean directing more of Britain’s growing aid budget to countries in the region.
    There is “no all-military solution” to the problem, he said.
    Western intelligence agencies have warned for several years that al-Qaeda-inspired groups are spreading in Africa as it becomes harder for extremists to operate in countries such as Afghanistan and Pakistan.
    However, British diplomatic and intelligence coverage of many countries in the Sahel region has traditionally been limited, since France, the former colonial power, has taken the lead.
    That weakness is now being questioned in Whitehall in the wake of the Algerian hostage crisis and the military conflict in Mali. In both cases, the British government has struggled for reliable information about events, hampering its response. The Prime Minister will brief MPs on events in Algeria and Mali on Monday and will on Tuesday convene his National Security Council for a “strategic” overview of Britain’s engagement with the region.
    Greater international support for democracy and security in the Sahel countries will now be a focus of Britain’s presidency of the Group of Eight this year, Mr Cameron indicated.
    Speaking on Sky News, Mr Hague accepted that the extremist problems of the region had been “gathering for some years” and said that part of the answer is more support for economic and political development in the area. “There is no military-only solution to all of this and that is why now we have to work with all the countries in that region to try to improve their political stability and their economic prospects, as well as working with them closely on counter intelligence to deal with the sorts of people who have launched this attack,” said Mr Hague.
    British officials believe that one of the root causes of instability in the region is the fragility of Mali, where the northern Tuareg people are not reconciled to the southern-based government. France has sent troops to help the Malian government drive extremists from the north of the country, part of a vast area that Mr Cameron has described as “ungoverned space”.
    Britain has provided transport planes, and will send troops to an EU training mission in the country. Mr Hague said Britain will consider any French request for more help, such as aircraft, but will not deploy ground forces because the British Army is already “stretched”.
    Some analysts have suggested that the fall of Muammar Gaddafi in Libya has contributed to instability in the region by dispersing large numbers of fighters and weapons previously controlled by his regime.
    Mr Hague admitted that there have been regional “spin-offs” from the British-backed intervention in Libya, but insisted: “Those could even have been worse had we not intervened.”
    Ministers, including Mr Cameron, had earlier in the crisis expressed disappointment with the Algerian government’s handling of the situation, including its refusal of British military assistance and its failure to give other nations advance notice of the rescue operation. But the Prime Minister and Mr Hague both softened their tone on Sunday, praising the Algerians.
    Mr Cameron said Britain should thank the Algerian government and remember that their soldiers had died in the rescue operation. Mr Hague said Britain should show “sympathy and solidarity” with the government and people of Algeria.
    The Foreign Secretary added that the Algerians had moved quickly to intervene because they believed that the lives of all the hostages were in “great and immediate danger”, as the hostage-takers were planning to blow up the entire gas complex. France also defended the Algerian response to the situation.
    Laurent Fabius, the French foreign minister, said he was “shocked” at criticism of the Algerians over their response. “Everyone would have wanted for all the terrorists to be rendered harmless and for all the hostages to be saved,” he said. “But we understand well the difficulty when you are dealing with dozens of fully armed terrorists.”
    One US citizen died at the gas plant. President Barack Obama also backed the Algerians. “The blame for this tragedy rests with the terrorists who carried it out,” he said.
    The United States on Sunday warned its citizens of a “high threat” of fresh terrorism, including kidnappings in Algeria. Family members of US diplomats in the country have been encouraged to leave.
    It emerged last night that the leader of the al-Qaeda gang had indicated that he had been in contact with British officials during the crisis.
    In a radio conversation between Abdel Rahman el-Nigeri and Algerian special forces, a recording of which was released last night, the terrorist said: “I have spoken to the British but they are far away (from a solution)”.
    The recording was believed to have come from one of the workers at the site. However, Whitehall sources last night denied there had been any contact.
    War against al-Qaeda in Africa could last decades - Telegraph

  2. #2
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    Yeah A good article Koojo ,IMHO the problem here is when the West gets involved in Problems like this it often has very serious implications on home soil, the "London transport" bombings being a prime example !

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    The French are experiencing that as a result of the Mali intervention.
    In fact I think the Algerian hostage situation was a reaction to the Mali thing.
    The French have stated they intend to 'reconquer' Mali.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo View Post
    The French are experiencing that as a result of the Mali intervention.
    In fact I think the Algerian hostage situation was a reaction to the Mali thing.
    The French have stated they intend to 'reconquer' Mali.
    Indeed - I saw a top secret french military strategy document on this very subject. They are basically planning to move their troops to Niger, and then, as they start their retreat, they will run away so fast that all the weapons they will drop will inadvertently conquer Mali on their way through.

    Originally Posted by bsnub "No wonder I drive a tesla"

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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo View Post
    The French are experiencing that as a result of the Mali intervention.
    In fact I think the Algerian hostage situation was a reaction to the Mali thing.
    The French have stated they intend to 'reconquer' Mali.
    Indeed - I saw a top secret french military strategy document on this very subject. They are basically planning to move their troops to Niger, and then, as they start their retreat, they will run away so fast that all the weapons they will drop will inadvertently conquer Mali on their way through.

    All very well but they are going into mali, and they did colonize a few countries an the past.
    "In my professional assessment as an intelligence officer, Trump has a reflexive, defensive, monumentally narcissistic personality, for whom the facts and national interest are irrelevant, and the only thing that counts is whatever gives personal advantage and directs attention to himself."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo View Post
    The French are experiencing that as a result of the Mali intervention.
    In fact I think the Algerian hostage situation was a reaction to the Mali thing.
    The French have stated they intend to 'reconquer' Mali.
    Yeah I am sure you are correct Koojo ,but will it stop in Algeria? somehow I doubt it, with how many Muslims in France 5 Million or so? ,I have grave reservations about the whole affair ,but what do you do, just cave in? lets be quite frank here, Islam is a huge problem in not only France but many if not all the European Countries ,and for sure this Mali Thing may well ignite a few "powder kegs" or should I write "Semtex backpacks" !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by piwanoi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo View Post
    The French are experiencing that as a result of the Mali intervention.
    In fact I think the Algerian hostage situation was a reaction to the Mali thing.
    The French have stated they intend to 'reconquer' Mali.
    Yeah I am sure you are correct Koojo ,but will it stop in Algeria? somehow I doubt it, with how many Muslims in France 5 Million or so? ,I have grave reservations about the whole affair ,but what do you do, just cave in? lets be quite frank here, Islam is a huge problem in not only France but many if not all the European Countries ,and for sure this Mali Thing may well ignite a few "powder kegs" or should I write "Semtex backpacks" !!
    Yes, security very tight in France now.
    Armed soldiers and heavy security everywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by piwanoi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo View Post
    The French are experiencing that as a result of the Mali intervention.
    In fact I think the Algerian hostage situation was a reaction to the Mali thing.
    The French have stated they intend to 'reconquer' Mali.
    Yeah I am sure you are correct Koojo ,but will it stop in Algeria? somehow I doubt it, with how many Muslims in France 5 Million or so? ,I have grave reservations about the whole affair ,but what do you do, just cave in? lets be quite frank here, Islam is a huge problem in not only France but many if not all the European Countries ,and for sure this Mali Thing may well ignite a few "powder kegs" or should I write "Semtex backpacks" !!
    Yes, security very tight in France now.
    Armed soldiers and heavy security everywhere.
    Koojo Further to your opening gambit ,I have just seen this from BBC ,I would suggest after this that Security will be stepped up on home soil too ,were is it all going to end ,better still just how is it going to end? BBC News - Cameron: North Africa terrorist threat 'could last decades'

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    According to this article the war has been going on for decades in Algeria with the Islamists ,however as we both concur along with the UK PM this Mali thing may well have been the catalyst to make it "kick off" as it were BBC News - Algerian reaction to raid rooted in history

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    Be nice if the US decided to sit this one out......








    But I doubt it..........................

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton View Post
    Be nice if the US decided to sit this one out......








    But I doubt it..........................
    Too late was the cry!, they have already offered assistance

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    Philippine Expat Davis Knowlton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piwanoi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton View Post
    Be nice if the US decided to sit this one out......








    But I doubt it..........................
    Too late was the cry!, they have already offered assistance
    Oh well....my nephews will get to visit new countries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by piwanoi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton View Post
    Be nice if the US decided to sit this one out......








    But I doubt it..........................
    Too late was the cry!, they have already offered assistance
    Oh well....my nephews will get to visit new countries.
    Davis,Hopefully the US will not get too "Gunge HO" and send troops in ,but one is never sure is oneU.S. weighs military aid for France in Mali - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

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    What will all this do to the price of oil?...

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    Has "Old Europe" decided to become colonial again? Whatever next.....

    Is France running out of gold?

    An alternative measure to clear the European debt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Has "Old Europe" decided to become colonial again? Whatever next.....

    Is France running out of gold?

    An alternative measure to clear the European debt?
    Too late, China's already bought most of Africa

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    Iraq lasted less than a decade before our glorious leaders threw in the towel, and they learned fast as demonstrated in Afghanistan. I believe the Coalition even protested to the "political" arms of AQ and the Taliban for giving our troops an ongoing hard time even though we are already in the process of honourably conceding defeat and have announced a time scale to that effect, because true gentlemen would understand it takes time to wind down major ops.

    As for the "war" against AQ that Cameron thinks he is talking about, this simply cannot be won. The West has unilaterally castrated itself with the moral dilemma of civilised 21st century warfare, where nobody should get hurt that shouldn't and we burden those who should with a litany of rights. This cannot work against an enemy that abides by no 'civilised' rules.

    We think we are too big to fail. We ain't, but we still cling to the same idea that has tormented many extinct civilisations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leemo View Post
    Iraq lasted less than a decade before our glorious leaders threw in the towel, and they learned fast as demonstrated in Afghanistan. I believe the Coalition even protested to the "political" arms of AQ and the Taliban for giving our troops an ongoing hard time even though we are already in the process of honourably conceding defeat and have announced a time scale to that effect, because true gentlemen would understand it takes time to wind down major ops.

    As for the "war" against AQ that Cameron thinks he is talking about, this simply cannot be won. The West has unilaterally castrated itself with the moral dilemma of civilised 21st century warfare, where nobody should get hurt that shouldn't and we burden those who should with a litany of rights. This cannot work against an enemy that abides by no 'civilised' rules.

    We think we are too big to fail. We ain't, but we still cling to the same idea that has tormented many extinct civilisations.
    Yeah Leemo good one, many "dreamers" on this forum think we are at war with a "civilized" enemy and at all cost's the "rules" have to be strictly adhered to , defeatist talk if ever I read it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Has "Old Europe" decided to become colonial again? Whatever next.....

    Is France running out of gold?
    Close. France generates most of its electricity from nuclear power and they get their uranium from Niger so maintaining those supplies is a vital national interest. If it wasn't for that, they wouldn't a toss about what was going on in Mali.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zooheekock View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Has "Old Europe" decided to become colonial again? Whatever next.....

    Is France running out of gold?
    Close. France generates most of its electricity from nuclear power and they get their uranium from Niger so maintaining those supplies is a vital national interest. If it wasn't for that, they wouldn't a toss about what was going on in Mali.
    So, good for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zooheekock View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Has "Old Europe" decided to become colonial again? Whatever next.....

    Is France running out of gold?
    Close. France generates most of its electricity from nuclear power and they get their uranium from Niger so maintaining those supplies is a vital national interest. If it wasn't for that, they wouldn't a toss about what was going on in Mali.
    So if you was Hollande you would do nothing and let France,s power supply descend to 5 candle power eh and the whole economy and infrastructure of the Country collapse? , hey nice one , a very responsible viewpoint

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    these wars are getting ridiculous, Algerie has been in islamic war since 1992 when the Islamists won some local parliamentary election

    I think it has more to do with natural resources like Uranium and the growing influence of the Chinese in the region

    AQ is always coming to the rescue as a valid excuse to intervene, best invention of the century for a new colonization era

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    Quote Originally Posted by piwanoi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Has "Old Europe" decided to become colonial again? Whatever next.....

    Is France running out of gold?

    An alternative measure to clear the European debt?
    Too late, China's already bought most of Africa
    Interesting point because if they go too far China will become ever so slightly annoyed by it all.

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    So no end to war and no end to the economic cosh, we're all just slaves to the man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by piwanoi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Has "Old Europe" decided to become colonial again? Whatever next.....

    Is France running out of gold?

    An alternative measure to clear the European debt?
    Too late, China's already bought most of Africa
    Interesting point because if they go too far China will become ever so slightly annoyed by it all.
    Yeah that could be a distinct possibility of Course, China is World renowned for playing it "by the rules" like they have done with their next door neighbor Tibet, so no need to worry about any ones "human rights " being a problem eh , as its also common knowledge that they treat their own Muslims with kid gloves don't they
    Last edited by piwanoi; 21-01-2013 at 02:54 PM.

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