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  1. #1
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    British troops face fresh charges of Iraq war torture and killings

    Britain will face fresh charges of breaching international law over the alleged torture and killing of prisoners during the war in Iraq, which began almost exactly 10 years ago. The allegations will be unveiled in the high court, when Britain will stand accused of a "systemic" policy of abuse committed over five years, from 2003 to 2008.

    At a hearing scheduled over three days from 29 January, lawyers for 180 Iraqis who claim they are victims of abuse, or that their family members were unlawfully killed, will place a file of statements before two judges presiding over the court in London accusing British soldiers and intelligence officers of unlawful interrogation practices. These include hooding and the use of "stress positions", sexual abuse, beating and religious abuse of illegally detained prisoners. In some cases, the testimonies allege, the torture led to the death of the prisoner.

    The statements were compiled during meetings with victims and relatives, mostly in Lebanon, by human rights lawyer Phil Shiner of the Public Interest Lawyers group, based in Birmingham.

    The court will rule on whether the abuses were isolated incidents of which commanders, senior ministry officials and politicians were unaware, as the government insists, or "systemic" and authorised as policy. The MoD contends that any general problems of detention and interrogation were dealt with by an inquiry into the death of Baha Mousa, an innocent hotel worker killed while in British custody in Basra in 2003, and continuing internal investigations by its own Iraq Historic Allegations Team.

    But the author of a book on the killing of Baha Mousa, Andrew Williams a law professor at the University of Warwick says what happened to Baha Mousa "may have shone a torch into a dark corner", but what is before the court next week is more like "a stadium in which we will switch on the floodlights".

    His counsel team, led by Michael Fordham QC, will present five so-called "state practices" they claim were "unlawful, right to the top", including illegal interrogation techniques taught at the army intelligence facility at Chicksands, north of London, unlawful detention and unlawful use of lethal force.

    Shiner's files are deeply shocking. Insults to Islam and sexual depravity feature frequently in the statements: a soldier is alleged to have masturbated over a prisoner, another to have committed sodomy with his finger; female interrogators are claimed to have stripped and feigned seduction in exchange for "information".

    Most of the alleged incidents took place while prisoners were in custody, though some occurred during "strike operations" on people's homes, with suspects and their families allegedly subjected to abuse and crude violence. Prisoners who died in custody were invariably said to have done so due to "natural causes", despite beatings and kickings.

    The hearing comes just weeks away from the 10th anniversary of the Iraq invasion, and will be counted as a measure of how far Britain can reckon with its own legacy in Iraq. South African archbishop emeritus Desmond Tutu last year urged in this newspaper that the then prime minister Tony Blair and others should be prosecuted by the international criminal court over the legality and conduct of the invasion.

    "This is the crucial moment of decision", says Williams. "This is our last chance to get to the truth of what happened. This is what we demand of others, but we do not demand it of ourselves. What kind of message does that give the world about who we are?"

    British troops face fresh charges of Iraq war torture and killings | UK news | The Observer

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub
    a soldier is alleged to have masturbated over a prisoner, another to have committed sodomy with his finger
    how so typically British

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub
    a soldier is alleged to have masturbated over a prisoner, another to have committed sodomy with his finger
    how so typically British
    Yeah its a bloody outrage, the British should treat all Islamic POW"s or Combatants just the same as they are treated themselves when caught or surrender to Muslim forces such as the various Islamic crackpots like the Soldiers of Saddam and the Taliban etc etc , cos every one is acutely aware that they adhere strictly to the rules of "The Geneva Convention" , throw the evil British in the slammer and throw away the key !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub
    a soldier is alleged to have masturbated over a prisoner, another to have committed sodomy with his finger
    how so typically British
    I think the key phrase there is "alleged". Bunch of Pakis, born in Britain, go and fight for the Taliban or Iraqi forces then come back, sign back on the dole, and try to get more money by pulling shit like this.

    it is very rare that a British soldier pulls this kind of shit. Significantly more common from the American forces unfortunately.
    Originally Posted by bsnub "No wonder I drive a tesla"

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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub
    a soldier is alleged to have masturbated over a prisoner, another to have committed sodomy with his finger
    how so typically British
    I think the key phrase there is "alleged". Bunch of Pakis, born in Britain, go and fight for the Taliban or Iraqi forces then come back, sign back on the dole, and try to get more money by pulling shit like this.

    it is very rare that a British soldier pulls this kind of shit. Significantly more common from the American forces unfortunately.
    Very rare , catch yourself on, for 8 hundred years they have been doing the same in Ireland , the cnuts killed 13 civilians on Bloody Sunday and they denied it for 30 years , your shithead of a prime minister had to apologise live on TV that it was murder , Very Rare , lol ,

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    Quote Originally Posted by snakeeyes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub
    a soldier is alleged to have masturbated over a prisoner, another to have committed sodomy with his finger
    how so typically British
    I think the key phrase there is "alleged". Bunch of Pakis, born in Britain, go and fight for the Taliban or Iraqi forces then come back, sign back on the dole, and try to get more money by pulling shit like this.

    it is very rare that a British soldier pulls this kind of shit. Significantly more common from the American forces unfortunately.
    Very rare , catch yourself on, for 8 hundred years they have been doing the same in Ireland , the cnuts killed 13 civilians on Bloody Sunday and they denied it for 30 years , your shithead of a prime minister had to apologise live on TV that it was murder , Very Rare , lol ,
    Coming from a garrison town where your mob planted bombs in my school on an almost monthly basis just because it was opposite an army base, you'll get no sympathy from me. 650 civilians your mob killed two of which I knew. Killed them for what reason? Because the people of NI wanted to remain part of the UK? Cromwell? Religion? Fuck off with that shit. It's a different story out there so concentrate on that. Start another thread on the murdering coward sack of shit IRA and defend away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by snakeeyes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub
    a soldier is alleged to have masturbated over a prisoner, another to have committed sodomy with his finger
    how so typically British
    I think the key phrase there is "alleged". Bunch of Pakis, born in Britain, go and fight for the Taliban or Iraqi forces then come back, sign back on the dole, and try to get more money by pulling shit like this.

    it is very rare that a British soldier pulls this kind of shit. Significantly more common from the American forces unfortunately.
    Very rare , catch yourself on, for 8 hundred years they have been doing the same in Ireland , the cnuts killed 13 civilians on Bloody Sunday and they denied it for 30 years , your shithead of a prime minister had to apologise live on TV that it was murder , Very Rare , lol ,
    Coming from a garrison town where your mob planted bombs in my school on an almost monthly basis just because it was opposite an army base, you'll get no sympathy from me. 650 civilians your mob killed two of which I knew. Killed them for what reason? Because the people of NI wanted to remain part of the UK? Cromwell? Religion? Fuck off with that shit. It's a different story out there so concentrate on that. Start another thread on the murdering coward sack of shit IRA and defend away.
    excuse me , your the one who said it's very rare when obviously it's not , now dont be defending these British soldier scumbags when they are so obviously guilty of these offences and do you mean the planters wants to remain part of the UK ,

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    Big fuss over nothing.
    War is war, and you cant make an omellete without breaking a few eggs, they are soldiers operating in a war situation, not social workers ticking off checklists in milton keynes. Its what soldiers do.

    These fucking do gooder lawyers need a dose of reality.

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    Bunch of Pakis, born in Britain, go and fight for the Taliban or Iraqi forces then come back, sign back on the dole, and try to get more money by pulling shit like this.
    Any other bollocks you'd like to make up? Since you're talking out of your arse, you may as well pile up the lies. Why not say they're all paedophiles, too?

    Anyway, this poor fucker wasn't a 'Paki'. Just an Iraqi hotel worker who had the misfortune of meeting the British army (who had decided it'd be a jolly old jape to give those sand niggers a lesson in the joys of democracy).



    Beaten to death by those lovely British soldiers.

    it is very rare that a British soldier pulls this kind of shit.
    No. It's very rare that the British establishment allows soldiers to be found guilty of this kind of shit. In the case as Baha Mousa (the man above who was beaten to death in British custody), one soldier served one year in prison. That's it. Of course, accusations are made a bit more regularly but a shitty, racist, right-wing press doesn't care and the public are by-and-large shitty, racist arseholes (as the British on this forum are only too happy to demonstrate) so very little happens.

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    War is war, and you cant make an omellete without breaking a few eggs,
    When 'they' do it to 'us', it's always an outrage of unequalled proportions but when 'we' do it to 'them', it's just the way of the world. How very fucking convenient.

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    Nah - it's rare. It's not a common occurrence from both the Yanks and the Brits out in these places. These things should not happen (I wouldn't care though if it was a dole bludging brit going out there to fight the coalition who got a working over) but they do. It's not nice. It;s not great. It was an illegal war started to grab oil and finish Bush Snr's promise to the largely unarmed Saudis to stop Saddam marching in. But the soldiers out there are doing a hard job, usually very well; they didn't start the war. In the old days a defeated nation never had the opportunity to pull this kind of shit, and who do the relatives of the truck drivers etc that had their head cut off with a knife go to court against then?

    It's not common. it doesn't happen all the time and to suggest as such is bollocks. It's in Shiner's interest for it to be shown to be endemic, but it's not.

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    The Iraq War[s] go back more than just 10 years.
    It was a continous war from Bush [1] senior....??
    23 years of war and occupation.

    There is no distinguishing between The Gulf War and The Iraq War.
    Remembering under Clinton the suppressive military occupation, no fly zone, sorties, etc.....into Bush [2] junior's 9-11 war.

    It's amazing the people allow the revision/omittance of very contemporary history to pass them by.....
    There is truly not much difference in how "they" rewrite and change history from today and yesteryear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    Big fuss over nothing.
    War is war, and you cant make an omellete without breaking a few eggs, they are soldiers operating in a war situation, not social workers ticking off checklists in milton keynes. Its what soldiers do.

    These fucking do gooder lawyers need a dose of reality.
    Modern warfare has become a PC exchange...

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    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile View Post
    Big fuss over nothing.
    War is war, and you cant make an omellete without breaking a few eggs, they are soldiers operating in a war situation, not social workers ticking off checklists in milton keynes. Its what soldiers do.

    These fucking do gooder lawyers need a dose of reality.
    Green sent.

    One for Butterfly too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zooheekock View Post
    Bunch of Pakis, born in Britain, go and fight for the Taliban or Iraqi forces then come back, sign back on the dole, and try to get more money by pulling shit like this.
    Any other bollocks you'd like to make up? Since you're talking out of your arse, you may as well pile up the lies. Why not say they're all paedophiles, too?

    Anyway, this poor fucker wasn't a 'Paki'. Just an Iraqi hotel worker who had the misfortune of meeting the British army (who had decided it'd be a jolly old jape to give those sand niggers a lesson in the joys of democracy).



    Beaten to death by those lovely British soldiers.

    it is very rare that a British soldier pulls this kind of shit.
    No. It's very rare that the British establishment allows soldiers to be found guilty of this kind of shit. In the case as Baha Mousa (the man above who was beaten to death in British custody), one soldier served one year in prison. That's it. Of course, accusations are made a bit more regularly but a shitty, racist, right-wing press doesn't care and the public are by-and-large shitty, racist arseholes (as the British on this forum are only too happy to demonstrate) so very little happens.
    You believe this shit ?

    Hotel worker by day, terrorist by night. Take your head out of your fucking ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by socal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zooheekock View Post
    Bunch of Pakis, born in Britain, go and fight for the Taliban or Iraqi forces then come back, sign back on the dole, and try to get more money by pulling shit like this.
    Any other bollocks you'd like to make up? Since you're talking out of your arse, you may as well pile up the lies. Why not say they're all paedophiles, too?

    Anyway, this poor fucker wasn't a 'Paki'. Just an Iraqi hotel worker who had the misfortune of meeting the British army (who had decided it'd be a jolly old jape to give those sand niggers a lesson in the joys of democracy).



    Beaten to death by those lovely British soldiers.

    it is very rare that a British soldier pulls this kind of shit.
    No. It's very rare that the British establishment allows soldiers to be found guilty of this kind of shit. In the case as Baha Mousa (the man above who was beaten to death in British custody), one soldier served one year in prison. That's it. Of course, accusations are made a bit more regularly but a shitty, racist, right-wing press doesn't care and the public are by-and-large shitty, racist arseholes (as the British on this forum are only too happy to demonstrate) so very little happens.
    You believe this shit ?

    Hotel worker by day, terrorist by night. Take your head out of your fucking ass.
    I believe you , daytime internet warrior nighttime ladyboy lover ,

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub
    Most of the alleged incidents took place while prisoners were in custody, though some occurred during "strike operations" on people's homes, with suspects and their families allegedly subjected to abuse and crude violence. Prisoners who died in custody were invariably said to have done so due to "natural causes", despite beatings and kickings.
    What we have here is a failure of leadership, or command. The NCO or subaltern above them should be held equally accountable to whatever scum carried out these atrocities. If it is the case that there was any sort of pattern to incidents that happened in custody, the level of command above that should absolutely have their arses run in as well. When deaths that clearly weren't are repetitively labelled 'natural causes', I'm afraid that tells us the whole organisational culture is rotten- anyone could look at those figures, and know they stunk. This sort of thing would not happen, or at least nowhere near as much, if decent discipline was installed, and enforced- I am saying this as an ex (navy) officer. Sadly, in the case of both the US & UK, the very pinnacle of military leadership, hand in glove with politicians, chooses to look the other way, gloss over or deny incidents, and the culpable receive at best a slap on the wrist. A total failure of both moral leadership, and military discipline.
    probes Aliens

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    Theres one thing for certain, if the Islamists had caught a British service man there would be no photo's of his injured face , just the bloodied stump of his neck were his head used to be ,the world is crammed with "do gooder" crying foul when our lads do something which they do as common practice , which is why I have been saying for Donkeys years now that they will win and eventually they will take over the World ,BS? maybe but look how many Mosques there are in UKhanistan to how many there was 30 years ago , truly they are the "enemy within" .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub
    a soldier is alleged to have masturbated over a prisoner, another to have committed sodomy with his finger
    how so typically British
    Ha ha. Very public school isn't it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alwarner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub
    a soldier is alleged to have masturbated over a prisoner, another to have committed sodomy with his finger
    how so typically British
    Ha ha. Very public school isn't it.
    Like saying "how very American".


    "The Mahmudiyah killings was the gang-rape and killing of a 14-year-old Iraqi girl by United States Army soldiers on March 12, 2006, and the murder of her family, in a house to the southwest of Yusufiyah, a village to the west of the town of Al-Mahmudiyah, Iraq. Five U.S. Army soldiers of the 502nd Infantry Regiment were charged with the crimes: (I) SGT Paul E. Cortez, (II) SPC James P. Barker, (III) PFC Jesse V. Spielman, (IV) PFC Brian L. Howard and (V) PFC Steven D. Green (whom the U.S. Army discharged before the crime's discovery)."

    "An American soldier admitted killing a 17-year-old Iraqi boy after gay rape. He originally admitted forcing the boy to endure anal sex. "

    "US forces in Chahar Bolak district of Afghanistan accused of "raping Afghan women during a night raid", according to FARS news report, dated December 2, 2012."

    " The Pentagon said on Thursday that it is working closely with the Japanese government and local authorities in Okinawa on investigating the alleged sexual assault of a Japanese woman by two U.S. servicemen earlier the week."

    Like saying "how very American".

    Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:24PM


    About 110 US male veterans reported being sexual assaulted in 2010.

    A large number of male members of the US military say they have been the victims of sexual harassment by their peers and superiors, a report says.


    About 110 US male soldiers said they were sexually assaulted while serving in the military in 2010, which is nearly three times the number in 2007, the US-based Newsweek magazine reported.

    According to the Pentagon, the number of victims is likely to be much higher since many of the soldiers either don't wish to reveal that they were subjected to such assaults, or they fear some sort of retaliation.

    Analysts say the men that commit sexual assaults are mostly heterosexual and that rapes are a display of power and intimidation against service members that are new, weaker, or suspected of being homosexual.

    Last year, over 50,000 American male soldiers were positively screened as victims of a 'military sexual trauma,' outnumbering 30,000 such cases eight years ago.
    Hmm there might be some truth in that after all...

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    Wanking over people and fingers up arses sounds like the stereotype of public schoolboys. Does it not?

    Edit: That second article you posted is horrifying!

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    Quote Originally Posted by alwarner View Post
    Wanking over people and fingers up arses sounds like the stereotype of public schoolboys. Does it not?

    Edit: That second article you posted is horrifying!
    Glad you read the second one. The difference between a well publicised stereotype v's a hidden reality can often be quite scary indeed.

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    It's a war for fukk sake, shit happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurgen View Post
    It's a war for fukk sake, shit happens.
    Exactly - and on all sides. The major difference being that in the UK and sometimes the US, these arseholes are brought to account when it is discovered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurgen View Post
    It's a war for fukk sake, shit happens.
    Exactly - and on all sides. The major difference being that in the UK and sometimes the US, these arseholes are brought to account when it is discovered.
    Yeah its War alright ,BUT HTF can we win if we are the only side that are fully expected to play it by the "rules" ? this is outright Islamic Terrorism, suicide bombers,and young kids being "groomed" for the job ,women and children being used as human shields , Hostage taking and torture plus beheadings metered out to hapless POW's AND civilians alike ,and then some idiots (not you) talk about "the rules of engagement" nah sorry ,the only way to beat these people is to get down in the gutter with them and beat them at their own game !

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